G.T. Now

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-08 13:49:00, DC wrote:

"Hello all,

I appreciate your concern over my wherabouts.  I know you are thinking about my daughter.  I have been given alot of information and I am going over it all and discussing it with my wife.  While I realize that most posters here have had negative experiences in similar type programs (not so sure of the similarities any longer), I am having a difficult time in understanding some of the mind control issues which you all have spoken about and have also provided links.  I am evaluating this information and seeking other avenues of understanding.

Thanks again for your thoughts."

Good luck DC!

Keep it up...an open mind empowers you.

Just as a sidenote, the techniques are essentially similar. "abuse" defined by violence ebbs and flows in these places. As you know, GT had some instances as early as last year. Because right now today no one is being restrained does not mean the cultic mind control isn't harmfull.

GOOD LUCK AGAIN.

[Antigen]

Hey DC. Let me chime in on just two things here.

1) Why no down time?

I mean NO down time, none, not a moment's rest.

Maybe that's changed. I certainly hope so, but I sort of doubt it. These people have been fanatics for decades and it's just extremely unlikely that they somehow have seen the light very recently and become temperate and sensible.

Some of what they preach is quite sensible, but some really is not. If it were all just sound advice and fact based counseling, there would be no need to addle the clients heads. So things like systematic sleep deprivation and intensely emotional manipulation are a red flag that something's not quite right.

Very early in this thread, I made a comparison between grounding a kid for a short time and the total isolation that the programs we're familiar with use. For the past 3 decades we've heard about how they're only, very innocently, trying to get these wayward kids to focus on themselves.

But if the kids are not given adequate sleep and are kept constantly busy mentally and on edge emotionally, they're not focusing on themselves. They're not focusing on anything! W/o adequate rest, it becomes impossible to think. Your judgement and even your very perceptions become unreliable.

It's not that hard to understand. You must have some time in your life in which you have experienced sleep deprivation and stress. Maybe it was just excessive recreation or maybe a time when you took on too much responsibility. In the real world, you call in sick or stick it out as long as you have to then take some kind of break and get back on track.

In the Program it just goes on and on and on till you can't distinguish between your own thoughts and those of the group. Then you graduate and find out that everything you learned is useless, unless you hang around and go on staff.

That can be quite disturbing and can have long term effects.

2) Keep on thinking! We're all pulling for you and your daughter and everyone else down there.

Question with boldness even the existance of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

[DC]

Thanks for the input...everyone.  I must admit that when I finally posted on this board I had been lurking for a little while.  I had preconceived notions about what would be said and I was combative.  Once I let your comments sink in I realized that it was not an attack, but a cry for me to look at things with more of an open mind.  I will admit that I can be pretty impulsive.  
I just wanted to thank you all again.  I know that this is a subject that still holds alot of emotion for most of you.  Your message did not fall on deaf ears.  I am still on the quest.  My daughter is almost finished with the program, so I wish I would have found your site sooner.
As far as sleep depravation goes, I think that part of the program has changed.  There is some "down time" for the kids now.  There has not been a night when I had kids in my home that we all didn't sit around and tell jokes and laugh.  I really know that the program sucks for these kids and I have always tried to keep things light in my home.  I know that some of the kids don't belong in treatment at all (in any treatment center).  I can sympathize with anyone that hasn't gotten enough sleep.  I suffer from sleep depravation from time to time and it sucks.  I am glad that they do not employ this technique any longer.  I know that alot of the rules have changed recently, because I hear stories from staff members about some of the things that used to be done.  
I know I really tried to make the right decision with my daughter.  If it was just a behavoral issue then I know it could have been handled differently.  I truly was scared for her life.  I feel like I have her back, and I know that if she has problems stemming from the program in the future, I will point her in your direction as well as a good therapist.
Thanks again!

[GregFL]

there is something that seperates you from 90% of program parents, and that is I believe you really do prioritize your daughter over the program

DC, we all wish your daughter well. If she stays on her program, heres wishing an uneventfull and quick end.

When it is over, let it really be over for her.


Here's to a power-filled future, for all of you.

[Helena Handbasket]

DC,

Ditto to what Greg said.  I too, wish you and your daughter the best.  Even when she's done with her program, keep listening to her.

Things can get a little heated at times around here, but we are adults, and even act like it sometimes! :grin:

Definitely keep in touch and let us know how things are going.

S

[Anonymous]

DC

  Yes, I also hope the best for your daughter and family.  I think she'll learn a lot from her experience.  What she chooses to do with it is up to her.

  Just remind her IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SLIP, DON'T GO WHERE IT'S SLIPPERY.

  Kim

[Antigen]

On 2005-02-10 14:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

  Just remind her IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SLIP, DON'T GO WHERE IT'S SLIPPERY.

Oh yeah, that'll do it! Just a handful of simplistic cliches and thought stoppers will do the trick IF you're willing to let someone else think for you.

Isn't that just lingo for "don't ever even think a kind thought about any old pre-program friend or anything you enjoyed or were good at before."?  :roll:

The whole world is "slippery". If you're going to live a life in this world, you have to develope real, authentic agility and grace. It's just not that simple.

T'is an ill wind that blows no minds.
--Syadasti

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-10 14:51:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-02-10 14:08:00, Anonymous wrote:


  Just remind her IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SLIP, DON'T GO WHERE IT'S SLIPPERY.

Oh yeah, that'll do it! Just a handful of simplistic cliches and thought stoppers will do the trick IF you're willing to let someone else think for you.



 
Isn't that just lingo for "don't ever even think a kind thought about any old pre-program friend or anything you enjoyed or were good at before."?  :roll:



The whole world is "slippery". If you're going to live a life in this world, you have to develope real, authentic agility and grace. It's just not that simple.

T'is an ill wind that blows no minds.
--Syadasti

"

  Calm down.  I believe any rational person would know exactly what that phrase really means - without stretching it to the extreme.  Even those never in a program can comprehend that one.

[Antigen]

On 2005-02-10 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

Calm down. I believe any rational person would know exactly what that phrase really means - without stretching it to the extreme. Even those never in a program can comprehend that one.

Sure, people who were never in a program would probably easily take one meaning from it and never give it much thought. But people who have been in these particular programs and been terrified of getting turned in for hanging on to an old "druggie stash" (clothing, music or other personal posession) or talking to old "druggie friends" (anybody you may have known prior to intake) might take another meaning entirely.

That's one of the reasons why they get away with it more or less out in the open. They use loaded language. Things that sound perfectly reasonable and worthwhile to anybody else carry a "special" meaning to a kid who's required under extreme pains to follow the "advice".

The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451524934/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>O'Brien, the apparatchik

[Helena Handbasket]

The whole world is "slippery". If you're going to live a life in this world, you have to develope real, authentic agility and grace. It's just not that simple.

 :nworthy:

Almost word for word what I was going to say.  

You can also work yourself into quite a panic trying to avoid all that is "slippery".  Instilling fear into someone does not help them deal with anything, it only makes them fearful.

[Anonymous]

DC,

  Is there a 6 phase still at GT? (6 month follow-up)THEN you 7-Step?

[Anonymous]

I have a child in Gt now and all this negativity on this message board.. Had me nervous.Thankyou for your positive feed back. All im really sure of is if HAD I not taken drastic action my child would be dead.. Thanks again for the positive feedback on GT.

[Troll Control]

You think you're saving your kid from Hell, but all you're really doing is to help weave the basket...

[Desperate]

I hardly think death is a better solution than seeking help for my child.. My child was out of control and using drugs daily. It was only a matter of time when i would get the dreaded phone call. I sent my child in this program to save their life.

[Troll Control]

"DeadInsaneJail," typical sales tool of the program.

Did you ever stop to think about how the program works?  The methods used are proven by decades of research to be ineffective at behavior change and much research shows them to be harmful to the developing mind.

Whether you'd like to admit it or not, the "program" is likely to cause more harm to your child than the behavior for which she/he was sent there to address.

You're not the first, and certainly won't be the last...There's a sucker born every minute.