G.T. Now

[GregFL]

The seed used to do something that I find very telling.

They had a little think-stopper saying that they imparted to the parents, and that was this.

"the first time it is your kids fault, the second time it is yours"

Now, this saying on the surface doesn't really sound as sinister as it is.

The saying absolves all parental responsiblity for pre program problems and lands it soley on the kid and drugs.  The second part tells them now that it is their responsiblity to keep them in the program forever if necessary, and to accept everything the program says, otherwise their kids failure is NOW on their backs.

The truth is this...your kid arrives in his spot in life by a very complicated journey that involves input by everyone, but mostly him/her.  There is no magical cure, be it "spending time" "locking up your valuables" "the program"  NOTHING WORKS. At some point it is up to the individual to be a success or failure at life, and no one else or nothing else can do it for him.

You can only do your best, and the rest is up to the kid. It is your job to believe in them and help guide them and god forbid, be with them if they fail and help bring them back.

Locking them up in a mind bending "rehab" has proven to be ineffective and harmfull. These places don't publish valid stats for a reason and the amount of harm they cause is well documented.  

Trying to keep you kid out of harms way? Start with keeping them away from rehabs with proven track records of abuse and with their roots in a cult.  This is a bad decision and can make things in the short term look better but result in long term problems.

A thoughtfull and concerned parent takes other approaches and hopes for the best.

Who is to blame really isn't that important. What is important is seeing your way thru it in a reasonablly calm manner, avoiding extreme reacionary "solutions" as hard as that can be.

[jjpinks]

I am hoping that you went and got your daughter out of that hellhole program since we haven't heard from you.

If you haven't already done so, go on and do it now. Today is a great day to free your daughter.

N

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-07 05:54:00, jjpinks wrote:

"I am hoping that you went and got your daughter out of that hellhole program since we haven't heard from you.



If you haven't already done so, go on and do it now. Today is a great day to free your daughter.



N"

  DC -  I'm speaking as someone who has BEEN to G.T. several times (as a visitor) as opposed to someone here that has never stepped FOOT in there, but wants to link it DIRECTLY with an unsuccessful program they've experienced.

  As someone who has been there, and from someone who has read your posts, I just want to say that I think YOU know what should happen here.  It wasn't some hasty decision on your part, you've looked at ALL ends of your decision, and you have your OWN experience thus far to base your actions on.  You are not just letting your daughter do "whatever" and seeing what happens.  You obviously love her too much to turn a blind eye. I went through a similar program where I gained tools to communicate, learn about myself all over again (without the distractions of my "friends", music, tv. etc.. at first), learned how to FEEL and process those feelings, learned better decision making skills, made a GREAT number of true friends.  
  Obviously some people here did not have that kind of experience.  I can tell you my experience was POSITIVE.
   You've had lots of input.  I sincerely wish you and your daughter much success in your journey (whatever that may bring).

  Kim

[Helena Handbasket]

  DC -  I'm speaking as someone who has BEEN to G.T. several times (as a visitor) as opposed to someone here that has never stepped FOOT in there, but wants to link it DIRECTLY with an unsuccessful program they've experienced.

Ummmm... let me get this straight.  As a visitor, you know more about the program that we who were in it's original program??  

  As someone who has been there, and from someone who has read your posts, I just want to say that I think YOU know what should happen here.  It wasn't some hasty decision on your part, you've looked at ALL ends of your decision, and you have your OWN experience thus far to base your actions on.  You are not just letting your daughter do "whatever" and seeing what happens.  You obviously love her too much to turn a blind eye. I went through a similar program where I gained tools to communicate, learn about myself all over again (without the distractions of my "friends", music, tv. etc.. at first), learned how to FEEL and process those feelings, learned better decision making skills, made a GREAT number of true friends.  

  Obviously some people here did not have that kind of experience.  I can tell you my experience was POSITIVE.

   You've had lots of input.  I sincerely wish you and your daughter much success in your journey (whatever that may bring).

What similar program were you and,  and what brought about your "visitor" status of GT?

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-07 06:27:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"

  DC -  I'm speaking as someone who has BEEN to G.T. several times (as a visitor) as opposed to someone here that has never stepped FOOT in there, but wants to link it DIRECTLY with an unsuccessful program they've experienced.

Ummmm... let me get this straight.  As a visitor, you know more about the program that we who were in it's original program??  

  As someone who has been there, and from someone who has read your posts, I just want to say that I think YOU know what should happen here.  It wasn't some hasty decision on your part, you've looked at ALL ends of your decision, and you have your OWN experience thus far to base your actions on.  You are not just letting your daughter do "whatever" and seeing what happens.  You obviously love her too much to turn a blind eye. I went through a similar program where I gained tools to communicate, learn about myself all over again (without the distractions of my "friends", music, tv. etc.. at first), learned how to FEEL and process those feelings, learned better decision making skills, made a GREAT number of true friends.  


  Obviously some people here did not have that kind of experience.  I can tell you my experience was POSITIVE.


   You've had lots of input.  I sincerely wish you and your daughter much success in your journey (whatever that may bring).

What similar program were you in, and,  and what brought about your "visitor" status of GT?"

[GregFL]

What similar program, Kim?

Lets put your cards on the table here.

There are many programs, but GT has a special lineage going back to the seed.

You telling us you were in either The Seed, Straight, Kids, or Life?

Com'n, were dying to know!

 :grin:

[jjpinks]

Greg and Sara, Kim posted this back on page 3 or 4 in this thread. I thought that I would re-post it for anyone that wants to know where she was.

Kim said....
"I was in the L.I.F.E. program in the 80's for a year before going through the "6th Phase" and graduating successfully. I was PISSED and stunned when I went in, and didn't do much at first except feel REGRETFUL for things I had done to GET myself there. However, I DID start to learn some things and progressed through the Program.

Today I am in my 30's, and I feel very blessed to have been a part of that program. It helped me in MANY ways, and never was I abused in any form nor did I witness ANY abuse there ( and I visited often after completing). Yes, I had no make-up, tv, radio, etc. for months (ewww - how awful, huh?), and I didn't attend school for the first 3 months, but when I returned to high school on 3rd phase I earned honor roll for the first time! What I learned there was how to communicate my feelings, how to improve my self esteem and how to set priorities in my life. I learned to be a leader instead of a follower. I learned to be more rational in my thinking.
Was it FUN?? No -- especially not in the beginning!! Was it suppose to be FUN? No! Did I have some of the BEST times of my life once I made 6 phase?? You BET!! I have GREAT memories of dances, Proms, camping trips, etc...(with TONS of photo's to prove it) and have MANY of my best friends today are from my "program" days.
I have been to Growing Together many times (though not lately). When I was there, it was a really good program, and I don't doubt that is still is today.
Good for you that you care enough about your daughter to HELP her, instead of doing nothing. You have a BIG committment yourself to that program, and it's not easy (but nothing worth while ever is). I remember my parents going to talk to one of my friends that I was drinking with (prior to the program) because they saw in the paper she had been arrested for burglery... her mom just skipped right over the topic of treatment/programs. 6 years later (when she was 22) our local paper reported her murder the day after Halloween. She was prostituting, involved in drugs and was stabbed to death over 20 times, and left by the side of the road! I grew up with this giril from age 2 till we were 16 (and I went into the program). I wish SHE had gotten treatment (anywhere). Her killer has never been found.
As for the posts you've received here... don't think that you can change any of these people's minds with the TRUTH. They won't "go there". Most are STUCK. Sad but true.

Kim"


I hope that re-posting this dosen't offend anyone.

N[ This Message was edited by: jjpinks on 2005-02-07 07:20 ]

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-07 07:19:00, jjpinks wrote:

"Greg and Sara, Kim posted this back on page 3 or 4 in this thread. I thought that I would re-post it for anyone that wants to know where she was.

Doesn't offend me at all... I remember it now.  Thanks! :smile:

[Anonymous]

Original program - LIFE

 Visitor status - LIFE graduate.  ( I had other friends in Palm Beach area who were also graduates.)

  Kim

[jjpinks]

ok so maybe it's just me, but I am a little concerned about DC. He came here to get information about an obviously abusive program that he has put his daughter in. Takes up 0ver 50 pages hearing about it. And then.....nothing.

I really hope that he got his daughter out and that is why he is not on here posting.

Maybe I have just lost it and am worried about nothing. I don't know.

I just had to say something.

N

[Helena Handbasket]

Well this has been a busy week :grin:

Anon - that's your view of LIFE.  No one can change that.  The treatment modalities have been studied extensively by experts and found to be harmful, there are actual cases of them doing more harm then good.  The fact that you believe it helped you is your opinion and another anecdotal success.  Have you ever wondered if you would have wised up on your own?

N - I wonder about DC too.  Obviously, he came here looking for answers - for some reason - who knows.  I wish he and other parents would give kids some credit and encourage them to use their own minds rather than to indoctrinate them with kiddie songs, program words and groupthink to make them walk the "straight and narrow".

[DC]

Hello all,
I appreciate your concern over my wherabouts.  I know you are thinking about my daughter.  I have been given alot of information and I am going over it all and discussing it with my wife.  While I realize that most posters here have had negative experiences in similar type programs (not so sure of the similarities any longer), I am having a difficult time in understanding some of the mind control issues which you all have spoken about and have also provided links.  I am evaluating this information and seeking other avenues of understanding.
Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-08 13:49:00, DC wrote:

"Hello all,

I appreciate your concern over my wherabouts.  I know you are thinking about my daughter.  I have been given alot of information and I am going over it all and discussing it with my wife.  While I realize that most posters here have had negative experiences in similar type programs (not so sure of the similarities any longer), I am having a difficult time in understanding some of the mind control issues which you all have spoken about and have also provided links.  I am evaluating this information and seeking other avenues of understanding.

Thanks again for your thoughts."

DC, I know I'm glad to hear it.  

The mind control that is most disturbing, the stuff that haunts us some 20 years later, are the things that you and some other parents might consider "little things".  You have to ask WHY they employ those techniques.

WHY prohibit access to downtime - reading material, music, games, etc.  Of course, consider age-appropriateness, but why deny it all together?

WHY have someone observe you - I mean OBSERVE you on the toilet or in the shower?

WHY pound kiddie songs into the heads of kids who are closer to voting booths than playskool toys?

I don't meant to sound like a broken record, but the WHYs are the most important questions.  And being told that you cannot ASK "why" is really suspect, don't you think?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-09 07:44:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"

On 2005-02-08 13:49:00, DC wrote:


"Hello all,


I appreciate your concern over my wherabouts.  I know you are thinking about my daughter.  I have been given alot of information and I am going over it all and discussing it with my wife.  While I realize that most posters here have had negative experiences in similar type programs (not so sure of the similarities any longer), I am having a difficult time in understanding some of the mind control issues which you all have spoken about and have also provided links.  I am evaluating this information and seeking other avenues of understanding.


Thanks again for your thoughts."

DC, I know I'm glad to hear it.  



The mind control that is most disturbing, the stuff that haunts us some 20 years later, are the things that you and some other parents might consider "little things".  You have to ask WHY they employ those techniques.



WHY prohibit access to downtime - reading material, music, games, etc.  Of course, consider age-appropriateness, but why deny it all together?



WHY have someone observe you - I mean OBSERVE you on the toilet or in the shower?



WHY pound kiddie songs into the heads of kids who are closer to voting booths than playskool toys?



I don't meant to sound like a broken record, but the WHYs are the most important questions.  And being told that you cannot ASK "why" is really suspect, don't you think?"

  Allow me to respond to these questions.

 WHY prohibit access to downtime -  So that these teens can focus soley on THEMSELVES and WHAT they need to change.  They are not there for vaction or fun, but to WORK on themselves and their attitudes.

 WHY have someone observe you - I mean OBSERVE you on the toilet or in the shower?
  When I was in the program, this happened only on 1st Phase...and I was not "observed", merely in the same room with an "oldcomer".  They never watched me, just turned their backs. As for the bath/shower, I had a shower curtain pulled- but they remained in the room.  WHY?  Because MOST teens do NOT want to face their poor actions, attitudes, choices, and would MUCH rather run away than FACE reality.  THAT'S why someone is ALWAYS with your during 1st phase (1/6th of the program.)

 WHY pound kiddie songs into the heads of kids who are closer to voting booths than playskool toys?
  Those songs are used for a couple different reasons.  One of them was for passing time between "raps", so that you're not just sitting.  Another reason for them is to relate yourself to growing up all over again.  So many teens want to rule the home, make ALL of their own decisions in life (even though they're not mature enough to YET), and grow up WAY TOO FAST.  These types of songs ground you back into your childhood, and help one to try to feel "carefree" again, as they did when they had a clean conscience and not so much guilt (for sneaky, dishonest choices that were causing havoc in their lives and their families lives).

  My parents asked these questions when I went into the program, and were given very sound and solid answers.  No big mystery/ cult-plots there.

[Helena Handbasket]

WHY prohibit access to downtime -  So that these teens can focus soley on THEMSELVES and WHAT they need to change.  They are not there for vaction or fun, but to WORK on themselves and their attitudes.

So, you're supposed to focus 100% of your thoughts to self (which is vague) for 100% of the time you're awake?  No scheduled breaks?  

WHY have someone observe you - I mean OBSERVE you on the toilet or in the shower?

  When I was in the program, this happened only on 1st Phase...and I was not "observed", merely in the same room with an "oldcomer".  They never watched me, just turned their backs. As for the bath/shower, I had a shower curtain pulled- but they remained in the room.  WHY?  Because MOST teens do NOT want to face their poor actions, attitudes, choices, and would MUCH rather run away than FACE reality.  THAT'S why someone is ALWAYS with your during 1st phase (1/6th of the program.)

How long is first phase?  I know I was on first phase for four months - some were on it for six, that I know of.  

You mean to tell me that someone is going to spring out of a shower bare-assed and bolt?  Sounds pretty silly to me.  Sounds like a control mechanism, don't you think?  

And what about the embarrassment and vulnerability factor?  Teens are inherently self conscious - drugs or no drugs - why exploit that?

Maybe they changed the rules - but personally, I had eyeballs staring at me when I was sitting on the pot.  Again.. why can't you have a door on the stall?  What's going to happen?

 WHY pound kiddie songs into the heads of kids who are closer to voting booths than playskool toys?

  Those songs are used for a couple different reasons.  One of them was for passing time between "raps", so that you're not just sitting.  Another reason for them is to relate yourself to growing up all over again.  So many teens want to rule the home, make ALL of their own decisions in life (even though they're not mature enough to YET), and grow up WAY TOO FAST.  These types of songs ground you back into your childhood, and help one to try to feel "carefree" again, as they did when they had a clean conscience and not so much guilt (for sneaky, dishonest choices that were causing havoc in their lives and their families lives).

In medicine, observing someone engaging in under- age-appropriate behavior on a regular basis would raise questions of a developmental delay.

Essentially, that's what regressing back to childhood is - a developmental delay.  How can that be therapeutic?

Why do you think they don't use that modality in adult drug addiction?

  My parents asked these questions when I went into the program, and were given very sound and solid answers.  No big mystery/ cult-plots there.

So they accepted these answers?  Why didn't they ask the questions I just asked you?[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-09 08:25 ]