G.T. Now

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-28 14:01:00, DC wrote:

"What, do you think these kids are innocent when they go to a place like GT???  Consequences for drug use, behavioral, etc...

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that these kids have not put their own and other lives in jepordy because of their actions??  There are consequences to those actions.  GT offers help and solutions to those kinds of problems.  So does AA & NA.

My daughter was going to kill herself using, so excuse me if I don't see the peril in not letting her make a phone call, watch tv or shave her legs.  You people are barking up the wrong tree.  GT is not Straight or the SEED.  Things are being done differently, and besides, I knew quite a few people that went to the SEED and they came out ok.  I still speak to some today.  You just want to find something to complain about.  You should know more about the program before you start slamming it, you may end up confusing someone and in the end be responsible for thir deaths.

In the end it is all about recovery, I would suggest you let it go and let the healing begin, for your own sake.

"

I second this.......

Posted: 2005-01-28 13:40:00   open your eyes
http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004- ... ure_1.html

[Antigen]

Here's a good crash course on brainwashing, large group awareness, thought control... whatever you want to call it (or not)

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8 ... shing.html

The lady who hosts the8th step is a Straight graduate, but none of the material on brainwashing is about Straight or GT or any related programs. She (and a lot of the rest of us) just found it hauntingly familiar and shockingly relavent, so it's there for all to read and make of it what you will.

And this brings me to my other point. If (again with the ifs!) GT is much like Straight, you probably have some preconceived notions about people who are critical of the program. I'll warrant that some of those notions are far off base.

Kathy Moya (who hosts the8thstep) is a housewife in her 30's (unless she's hit the big 40 already) raising a small brood of incredibly normal, bright and happy kids deep in the bossom of suburban DC. You just couldn't ask for a more conservative, buttoned down example of the American Dream than her and her family.

A lot of us are like that. Some are not. My family is a little less conventional than that. My husband and I work from home at computing. He's a salaried full time employee and I do a little freelance website hosting for spare cash and in my spare time outside of being a housewife. So far, so good. My oldest is 20 and doing pretty well for herself, the youngest is still but 8 (she just thinks she's 20 sometimes!)

While our interesting little online community, based on our weird little shared history, is not anything like hegemonic. While we do have our share of "colorful" characters, we're really not all a bunch of strung out, digruntled dope fiends. Some of us are actually habitual voters who own property, pay taxes and are every bit as concerned for the welfare of our kids and communities as you are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-28 14:01:00, DC wrote:

 I knew quite a few people that went to the SEED and they came out ok. I still speak to some today.

Excellent! Then please tell them about our Seed forum located at http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=8&2899

And you might gain some insight yourself by talking to some of those folks.

You're right, they're different in many ways. They're also similar in many significant ways.

Here you have an oportunity to learn something from some of us who have been through a similar experience and now have the benefit of years to better understand it. It's up to you. You can trust the program and take your chances w/ your daughter or you can do a little due diligence and possibly save yourself and her a lot of heartache.

One bit of advice. Please don't feed the trolls! If someone comes at you w/ a lot of blind rage, just take note of the fact (because these are almost always Program graduates) and save your time and effort to address the more measured, reasoned questions and comments.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil ---in its worst state an
intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same
miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without
government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we
furnish the means by which we suffer!


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679433147/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Thomas Paine, Common Sense

[Antigen]

Wow! I didn't get that this was directed at me. It's not responsive to what I was talking about, but I'm happy to answer anyway.

On 2005-01-28 14:01:00, DC wrote:

"What, do you think these kids are innocent when they go to a place like GT???  Consequences for drug use, behavioral, etc...

Drug use and bad behavior do have consequences. Health consequences, legal ones and social ones. Some of those are enjoyable (or no one would do it) and others, not so much. However, the Program is not a natural consequence of drug use or bad behavior. The Program is a system of contrived and often outlandishly harsh consequences that the kid is supposed to accept as their own doing. Do they still respond to each and every complaint with "You did the necessary things...."? And these artificial consequences are imposed by you by proxy.

Now, if you're qualified to be a host parent, then ask yourself what the heck you're paying for. What is it that the Program is doing that you couldn't, or wouldn't, do yourself?

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that these kids have not put their own and other lives in jepordy because of their actions??  

There are consequences to those actions.  GT offers help and solutions to those kinds of problems.  So does AA & NA.

In many cases, they have not. I don't know you or your daughter. For all I know she really was in some deep trouble and needed some kind of help. But that is, by no means, a common denominator among program clients.

What I am going to sit here and tell you is that, regardless of the risk to your daughter w/o this particular program, you must consider the risk to her from the program. There are other options. Would you get come down on in parent group if you asked staff to explain a few of those "odd, to say the least" practices and policies? Are you allowed to do that and remain in good standing?

My daughter was going to kill herself using,

How do you know that? Do you understand that more than half of American teens have used illegal drugs by the 12th grade, going back to the `70's? Where are all the dead bodies and skidrow junkies? Are half of the people you know from highschool deadinsaneorinjail right now? No, me neither.

so excuse me if I don't see the peril in not letting her make a phone call, watch tv or shave her legs.

I'm trying to explain it to you. Have you got any idea how many former clients have offed themselves? Did you know that the teen suicide rate went up in WPB when GT moved in? It's documented. You can look it up. There's something about it at http://thestraights.com/ or you can just look up stats on suicide rates and compare w/ GT's history.

In the end it is all about recovery, I would suggest you let it go and let the healing begin, for your own sake.

"

I'm healed, thank you. Just trying to save you the same trouble.

Infidel: In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion; in Constantinople, one who does.
--Ambrose Bierce

[Helena Handbasket]

DC,

How did you stumble upon this forum?

[Antigen]

It's Friday night, Sarah. Where do you think DC is right now?

Some things never change.

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-28 14:01:00, DC wrote:

"What, do you think these kids are innocent when they go to a place like GT???  Consequences for drug use, behavioral, etc...

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that these kids have not put their own and other lives in jepordy because of their actions??  There are consequences to those actions.  GT offers help and solutions to those kinds of problems.  So does AA & NA.

My daughter was going to kill herself using, so excuse me if I don't see the peril in not letting her make a phone call, watch tv or shave her legs.  You people are barking up the wrong tree.  GT is not Straight or the SEED.  Things are being done differently, and besides, I knew quite a few people that went to the SEED and they came out ok.  I still speak to some today.  You just want to find something to complain about.  You should know more about the program before you start slamming it, you may end up confusing someone and in the end be responsible for thir deaths.

In the end it is all about recovery, I would suggest you let it go and let the healing begin, for your own sake.

"

Darren here...your experiences parallel my parents. LIFE helped me...good luck to your family and daughter.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-28 16:21:00, Antigen wrote:

"It's Friday night, Sarah. Where do you think DC is right now?

Thats a scary thought.  I guess it didn't really dawn on me that open meetings are still going on.  How sad.

The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-01-28 16:21:00, Antigen wrote:

"It's Friday night, Sarah. Where do you think DC is right now?



Some things never change.

Oh Holy shit... I did forget!  Thank God for time!

[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-01-28 17:18 ]

[Anonymous]

Hi DC

 I was in the L.I.F.E. program in the 80's for a year before going through the "6th Phase" and graduating successfully.  I was PISSED and stunned when I went in, and didn't do much at first except feel REGRETFUL for things I had done to GET myself there. However, I DID start to learn some things and progressed through the Program.

  Today I am in my 30's, and I feel very blessed to have been a part of that program.  It helped me in MANY ways, and never was I abused in any form nor did I witness ANY abuse there ( and I visited often after completing).  Yes, I had no make-up, tv, radio, etc. for months (ewww - how awful, huh?), and I didn't attend school for the first 3 months, but when I returned to high school on 3rd phase I earned honor roll for the first time!  What I learned there was how to communicate my feelings, how to improve my self esteem and how to set priorities in my life.  I learned to be a leader instead of a follower.  I learned to be more rational in my thinking.
  Was it FUN??  No -- especially not in the beginning!!  Was it suppose to be FUN? No!  Did I have some of the BEST times of my life once I made 6 phase??  You BET!!  I have GREAT memories of dances, Proms, camping trips, etc...(with TONS of photo's to prove it) and have MANY of my best friends today are from my "program" days.
  I have been to Growing Together many times (though not lately).  When I was there, it was a really good program, and I don't doubt that is still is today.
  Good for you that you care enough about your daughter to HELP her, instead of doing nothing. You have a BIG committment yourself to that program, and it's not easy (but nothing worth while ever is).  I remember my parents going to talk to one of my friends that I was drinking with (prior to the program) because they saw in the paper she had been arrested for burglery... her mom just skipped right over the topic of treatment/programs. 6 years later (when she was 22) our local paper reported her murder the day after Halloween.  She was prostituting, involved in drugs and was stabbed to death over 20 times, and left by the side of the road!  I grew up with this giril from age 2 till we were 16 (and I went into the program).  I wish SHE had gotten treatment (anywhere).  Her killer has never been found.
  As for the posts you've received here... don't think that you can change any of these people's minds with the TRUTH. They won't "go there".  Most are STUCK.  Sad but true.

  Kim

[Helena Handbasket]

When were you there, Kim?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-28 17:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hi DC



 I was in the L.I.F.E. program in the 80's for a year before going through the "6th Phase" and graduating successfully.  I was PISSED and stunned when I went in, and didn't do much at first except feel REGRETFUL for things I had done to GET myself there. However, I DID start to learn some things and progressed through the Program.
<..............


  As for the posts you've received here... don't think that you can change any of these people's minds with the TRUTH. They won't "go there".  Most are STUCK.  Sad but true.



  Kim"

different Kim

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.
http://www.luxefaire.com/' target='_new'>Bill Gallagher

[Anonymous]

So you missed three mos of school and scored the honor roll.  Big fucking deal?  I guess a C average is honor roll compared to making nothing.
And you were a leader and not a follower.  Says who?  As far as I can see your still following the sheep that you followed beind before.  Your just sad.

I hope that kid in GT does get treatment for the shit shes in the middle of right now.  I hope she comes out normal after this experience.  To think her own parents would sell her out to pure bull shit!


If you parents were doing inside your own homes what went on in these programs than you would be convicted of child abuse or worse.  You would never see you kids again.  Yet you just let other people carry on with this.   You fuckers don't want kids. you just want little molds of you, or what you wish you could be, because if you have to torment your kid there is really something missing in your own life.

[Anonymous]

Anon

   That is your opinion/perception. Not mine.

  The reason I mentioned missing 3 months of school then earning honor roll was because somebody else made an issue about kids being kept from school. I was just relaying that it did me GOOD to focus on MYSELF for a while, before doing schoolwork.  Prior to the program, I was a D, F student and was looking at quitting.  Now I'm a college grad., and I think the program played a big part in helping me turn it around. I remember how my best "druggie" friend did NOT graduate.  I really think I would have been right there with her. (As a side note, she and I are friends again now, but have very different lives.)
  As for being a follower, again- that's your take on it, and that's your right to have that opinion. But I no longer felt the need to "jump on the bandwagon" of what everyone else around me was doing.  I gained a conscious.  Just like this board.  I'm the minority here, but I'll say my piece and without attacks or threats to others. I have no room in my life or heart for hatred, grudges or revenge.  Reminds me of my teen/immature/trying to be something I was not, days when I see some of the posts here.
  For me the program was not punishment. Not at all.  It was a chance to start over and learn how to be a better person. For me, it worked. No need to cut me down for that, with profanity and judgement, is there?

  Sara,  I was in the program in 1985.

  Kim

[Anonymous]

I wonder how Open Meeting and Open Meeting Review went last night. :scared: OMG, those O.M reviews!!!! :scared:  :scared: