Write to Dr. Phil!!

[webcrawler]

On 2005-01-14 15:16:00, chi3 wrote:

"krystene,



what "school" were you in? what years were you there? what kinds of abusive things did you see? was it just the beh. modification abuse or did you see physical abuse also? i really am interested.. please tell me all you feel comfortable with sharing. thank you"

I was in an adolescent drug treatment center called Straight from July 1987 to May 1989. After graduating the program I was made to stay in the program another 21 days so I could continue to watch girls on a lower level. They were called newcomers and we were NEVER allowed to take our eyes off them or we would suffer major repurcussions like becoming a newcomer again ourselves. It was only at night when we were put in a bedroom with an alarm turned on that we could take our eyes off the newcomers. When it was time for us to shower our newcomers had to put both hads in the shower so we could make sure they were not trying to run away or harm themselves.

We had to attend "group therapy" 6 days a week and 9 hours a day. 2 of the days consisted of so called therapy for 12 hours. All of it was very confrontational. The reasoning was that we all needed to be broke down and be rebuilt. It's hard for me to even describe the things that went on in this place to outsiders. It's like you would have to be there to truly know how lonely and desperate most of us felt. Tons of harmful BM stuff. We were isolated from the world and only their world had all the answers to our problems. I lived in a constant state of fear and anxiety that I would be accussed of doing something wrong and be made to be a newcomer again. I wittnessed this stuff daily. People were forced to confesss to things they never did or were humilated and punished for making a small mistake.

It is against the law in Michigan to restrain clients in these treatment centers. However, toward the end of my program a loophole was discovered and used. If the staff believed a person would harm themselves or another person staff could restrain them to prevent them from running away or doing anything else found to be disruptful to our group therapy meetings. The way kids were restrained having several people on top of them while staff and group members would stand up one after another confronting the kid was just plain wrong. A lot of emotional abuse was done in the name of treatment.

I have read here and there about your daughter and I can not tell anyone what to do with their kids, but it sounds like you have legitimate concerns about the facilty she's in. Where my parents went wrong is not making me stick with counseling before I went into Straight. I was doing a lot of stuff that my parents felt was disrespectful and dangerous, but no one ever got to the bottom line of why I was doing all of those things. Depression, abuse from my father, abandonment feelings, living in a family with a step parent and just the whole thing of being viewed as a trouble maker and a bad kid by everyone just became a self fufilling prophecy. I felt terrible for everything I had done when I went to Straight and really wanted to redeem myself. After 2 years of that place I came home and started doing the same things over. Some of it was just stuff that teenagers go through. I grew out of it though and today I'm a responsible person. I would not expect any magic cures for your daughter. She may just need to grow out of what she's doing and learn from her mistakes like I did.

[Anonymous]

The reason you were not abused in a psychiatric hospital is that the staff there consist of nurses and doctors- professionals who are educated and trained to work with patients in a safe and theraputic manner.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, that last post was a response to a post on page 9.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure there are exceptions, but Psych Hospitals have had their share of abuse. Notorious for holding and drugging people against their will. Check the Baker Act. Restraint deaths are common. I could load pages and pages of documented cases of abuse and death of teens and adults.
The bottom line- if you turn a loved one over to any institution, you better keep a very close watch. Ask lots of questions. Be skeptical. Abuse is very common, overt and covert.

[cherish wisdom]

There have been hundreds of reports of similar abuses in these programs. If everyone just got over it and moved on - the same abuse would continue.  Many here are doing something about it by disclosing their experiences.  I am personally thankful to the Provo Canyon School survivor site - after reading many of the horrific experiences of others I was able to believe the almost unbelievable things my own child told me.
Stories of prolonged isolation, forced druggings, denial of essential medical and emergency care, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, verbal and emotional abuse, psychological abuse and many other abusive measures.
Many of these facilities use a "break them down, build them up" approach.  They do not disclose this to the parents. They prey on those who have children with serious problems - drug abuse, suicide attempts, depression - they know that the parents will agree to anything if they tell them that they can help their children.  

Dr. Phil has not allowed any of my posts on his site because they do not support his point of view.    

With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[webcrawler]

On 2005-01-18 17:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

I'm sure there are exceptions, but Psych Hospitals have had their share of abuse. Notorious for holding and drugging people against their will. Check the Baker Act. Restraint deaths are common. I could load pages and pages of documented cases of abuse and death of teens and adults.

The bottom line- if you turn a loved one over to any institution, you better keep a very close watch. Ask lots of questions. Be skeptical. Abuse is very common, overt and covert."

If a person is indigent or on Medicaid chances are that person is going to a not so great hospital. Good insurance makes a world of difference.

[webcrawler]

On 2005-01-18 17:29:00, cherish wisdom wrote:

"There have been hundreds of reports of similar abuses in these programs. If everyone just got over it and moved on - the same abuse would continue.  Many here are doing something about it by disclosing their experiences.  I am personally thankful to the Provo Canyon School survivor site - after reading many of the horrific experiences of others I was able to believe the almost unbelievable things my own child told me.

Stories of prolonged isolation, forced druggings, denial of essential medical and emergency care, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, verbal and emotional abuse, psychological abuse and many other abusive measures.

Many of these facilities use a "break them down, build them up" approach.  They do not disclose this to the parents. They prey on those who have children with serious problems - drug abuse, suicide attempts, depression - they know that the parents will agree to anything if they tell them that they can help their children.  



Dr. Phil has not allowed any of my posts on his site because they do not support his point of view.    

With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

"

Very good point about these places preying on families that are desperate for help.

I can't stand Dr. Phil and think he's a phony. I have watched him berate people in the name of therapy so it is no surprise he does not want to hear your viewpoint.

Maybe Ol' Oprah that helped him get where he is might listen to you since she has abuse experience.

[Anonymous]

What I meant (in previous post), is that since the staff at psych hospitals are actual professionals, with education, degrees, and liscenses, I would think that the incidense of abuse would be much less than these BM facilities, which employ uneducated, unliscensed, local hillbillies to implement programs that are not based on any positive psychiatric theory.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-19 05:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What I meant (in previous post), is that since the staff at psych hospitals are actual professionals, with education, degrees, and liscenses, I would think that the incidense of abuse would be much less than these BM facilities, which employ uneducated, unliscensed, local hillbillies to implement programs that are not based on any positive psychiatric theory."

I agree with you.

Bad care happens, even with the best qualified medical providers.

That's why some doctors lose their licenses to practice medicine.

It's not just a problem with psychiatry or psychology.  It's a problem with *any* branch of care or therapy.

Sometimes people who were good care providers when they first got their licenses have breakdowns or burnouts or substance problems and *become* bad providers.

All that said, I wouldn't take my high blood pressure problems to somebody with little training and no licensing just because *some* doctors are bad.

There are regulations and oversight to weed bad *licensed* providers out of the system.  The safeguards don't always work the way they're supposed to, but they certainly help.  A lot.  They're a lot better than nothing.

You *might* get bad care in a licensed mental hospital with licensed providers and trained staff.

Your *risk* of getting bad care instead of good care goes way, way up in an unlicensed facility with a random mix of licensed and unlicensed providers whose ratio is whatever the facility's owners and directors think they can get away with and pay the least overhead for while still filling beds.

No system of safeguards on any branch of healthcare is perfect.

A good system of safeguards is *still* way better at ensuring patients get *quality* care than the unregulated jungle of practically no safeguards that we've got now.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The present state of the teen residential care industry is pretty much just like the state of the food and drug industries in the days of Snake Oil salesmen, Patent Medicine Shows, and Upton Sinclair's _The Jungle_.

We need the equivalent of the FDA and/or the USDA for teen residential care.

I'm a big believer in capitalism, market forces, and a large dose of laissez-faire.

*However*

A sane balance of consumer protection regulation and oversight greatly assists the operation of market forces by ensuring that buyers can be confident that the goods and services they buy really are what the sellers have represented them to be.

The Teen Residential Care Industry is a prime example of the drawbacks of pure laissez-faire, caveat emptor capitalism.

I buy medicines from the pharmacy, safe in the assumption that what's in the bottle is what the label *says* is in the bottle, and that it's been tested to make sure it's reasonably safe and we're reasonably sure it's effective, and I know the pharmacist is licensed and isn't going to put the wrong thing in the bottle (Deborah has a point that the process isn't perfect---but it's *much* better than it was before the FDA).  I know the pharmacist will look at the prescription and check it against my other medicines, warning me of any interactions.  I know the pharmacist will be able to correctly answer my questions about how to take the medicine.

Parents who need residential care for their teens should be able to enroll their teens in that care secure in the knowledge that their kids will receive the services as they've been represented to the parents, and that those services have been tested and found safe and effective, and that the people providing the care are licensed.  Parents (and teens) should know the licensed provider is going to check and make sure that the teen doesn't have some problem that's going to make the treatment dangerous instead of helpful.  Parents and teens should know that a licensed provider will check the patient's progress and switch to an alternate treatment if the treatment being provided is harming the patient instead of helping.  Parents and teens should know that the provider is competent to provide the treatment *correctly* (that the drug in the bottle matches the label, so to speak).

Standards of care in this industry are primitive and frequently dangerous.  Patients are being harmed by these primitive conditions.

It's time for the industry to mature and grow up.

With the number of cases of mental illness skyrocketing in each younger generation, the problem is only going to get worse if we ignore it.

Timoclea

[Deborah]

We need the equivalent of the FDA and/or the USDA for teen residential care.
I'm a big believer in capitalism, market forces, and a large dose of laissez-faire.
*However*
A sane balance of consumer protection regulation and oversight greatly assists the operation of market forces by ensuring that buyers can be confident that the goods and services they buy really are what the sellers have represented them to be.
********

I know you desperately want to believe that the government is going to fix this industry. And god help us if they were to create a dept as fraudulent as the FDA. It would be a waste of tax payer money. The FDA does not insure that the goods and services we buy are safe and effective. Only in theory.

[nite owl]

The government could do something and so could the industry.  Law suits also help change things. In most hospital pediatric units the rooms have video surveilance. This is now implemented to protect both children and staff. Psychiatric hospitals allow patients to receive and make phone calls on a pay phone. They also have visiting hours.  All of these implementations would make youth facilities safer. We aren't going to do away with them - because there are parents who just can't cope with the problems some teens face.  So they will - if they have the money and insurance - turn to these programs when therapists make the suggestion.  
These programs could be safer IF there was video survailance, computer charting (to prevent fraud and alteration of documents), mandatory visiting hours daily for at least one or two hours, available pay phones for student use, unmonitored phone calls at least three times per week, an omsbudman phone line to report patient abuse and maltreatment.  
Some of these things have made Nursing homes and hospitals safer.
There was a time when parents were not allowed to visit their children while they were hospitalized. Research finally demonstated that this practice was emotionally damaging to children. Now parents are encouraged to stay with their children around the clock.

Children need parental contact and concern to feel secure and loved.  These programs strip them of love and security. This is a major problem that must be addressed.  

I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet

[chi3]

Back to where Krystene posted back to me, thank you for answering my questions. I understand this is a hard thing to dwell on. I was in an abusive situation for 16 years, so I completely understand how difficult this is for all of you. Krystene, your story sounds quite a lot like my daughter's. I now know we should have forced her to do counseling when she was home instead of letting her skip out of it. It seemed like such an ordeal to get her there, and then she rarely would open up or contribute. I am apalled to learn all the things that I have over the last few weeks. These people who have done this, or stood idly by and let it happen, need to be put in a dog cage in the hot sub and left to rot. Suffer you bastards who harm children!

[webcrawler]

On 2005-01-19 12:15:00, chi3 wrote:

"Back to where Krystene posted back to me, thank you for answering my questions. I understand this is a hard thing to dwell on. I was in an abusive situation for 16 years, so I completely understand how difficult this is for all of you. Krystene, your story sounds quite a lot like my daughter's. I now know we should have forced her to do counseling when she was home instead of letting her skip out of it. It seemed like such an ordeal to get her there, and then she rarely would open up or contribute. I am apalled to learn all the things that I have over the last few weeks. These people who have done this, or stood idly by and let it happen, need to be put in a dog cage in the hot sub and left to rot. Suffer you bastards who harm children!"




-------------------------------------------------

I bounced around from counselor to counselor myself. I think if my mom set some boundaries and stuck to them I would have followed through with it. Another reason I would never open up to them is because I was worried they would tell my mom everything. Heck, I don't even know if kids have a legal right to confidentiality.

I forgot another key thing about my exp. at the treatment center. We were led around by our belt loops like dogs on leashes!

Is your daughter still in the facilty? I was reading about the teen sex thing. Been there. I don't advocate teen sex, but if I even suspect it is going on I will be making that Planned Parenthood trip to get my child Depo shots or Norplant. Just my opinion. Timoclea had a lot of good stuff to say about it.

Hang in there. Most of us all come back to our moms. Being a teen is just hard.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-19 09:28:00, Deborah wrote:

"We need the equivalent of the FDA and/or the USDA for teen residential care.

I'm a big believer in capitalism, market forces, and a large dose of laissez-faire.

*However*

A sane balance of consumer protection regulation and oversight greatly assists the operation of market forces by ensuring that buyers can be confident that the goods and services they buy really are what the sellers have represented them to be.

********



I know you desperately want to believe that the government is going to fix this industry. And god help us if they were to create a dept as fraudulent as the FDA. It would be a waste of tax payer money. The FDA does not insure that the goods and services we buy are safe and effective. Only in theory.

"

Deborah---I can believe and accept that you think the FDA has had its research processes corrupted by drug company money.

I compare the state of pharmaceuticals today to the snake oil salesmen and the medicine shows of the past and say that maybe it *could* be improved quite a bit---but it sure is a hell of a lot better than it was.

When's the last time you ate a hotdog and worried that you were really eating ground up rats?

When's the last time you gave your kid a spoonful of pepto bismal and worried that it had radium in it and was going to give your kid radiation sickness?

Both those things happened before the FDA.

If you can improve the process so that researchers doing the drug trials are more likely to be impartial, competent scientists, more power to you.

But things are *still* a lot better than they were *before* the FDA.

And when you buy medicine at an American pharmacy, you're still a hell of a lot more likely to get pills that contain what the label says, in pharmaceutical grade quality, than if you buy the pills from someplace in Mexico.

If you can improve things, more power to you.

But be honest enough to admit that they're a lot better than they used to be, and a lot better than they would be without at least the basic *attempt* at safeguards and oversight provided by the FDA.

I don't delude myself that even with reforms and safeguards commitment to a mental facility, or incarceration, will be problem-free.  Adult involuntary commitment still has its aspects that suck rocks, frankly.  But we can *at least* try to get the quality of care provided to the teens raised up to the level of quality provided to adults.

If by your criticisms you're trying to replace what is with what's better, more power to you.

Sometimes it seems to me like you're letting the image of the perfect become the destroyer of the good, and that's not wise.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

My daughter was turned down for Provo Canyon School because of her aggressiveness. She is 13 with bipolar disorder among other things and is currently in another rtc.

Does anyone know of any treatment facilities that are actually safe and GOOD?