Sexuality in CEDU

[Anonymous]

you are so so right.

[iknowcedulies]

mormons taking over ?   must have sold out cause they were mormon haters cause they though that mormons were racists because of what the mormon church had said. they would always make a big deal about racism but they themselves hated others but as long as it was not them being talked about then it was fine.  bca stands for what ?   [ This Message was edited by: iknowcedulies on 2005-01-11 16:58 ]

[ProgramAHolic]

My reason for pointing out this flaw in the CEDU programs is not to say that they necessarily encourage sex only between the same gender, I meant to point out that many students will find ways to experiment with the same gender because the punishment is less severe and it takes care of their sexual urges.

I can agree that students having sex with one another within a program setting is a bad idea and that it would be a legal problem with certain circumstances.  But what about kissing?  Since when is kissing such an evil act?  Many students will be publicly humiliated and cast out as whores once staff finds out about any lip-locking.  Then the student will be put on bans from so much as poking the individual and even hugs become taboo.

Yes, some students need to have those very distinct and very strict lines drawn for them especially if they have issues saying no and drawing their own boundaries or if sex is one of their personal issues.  But for others?

It's a known fact that if a young adult or child is told that they cannot do something, that they are more likely to want to do it just to be defiant or because they want to see what they can get away with.  When students' sexual urges and thoughts are entirely supressed, they are bound to find ways to take care of it.

Take Milestones for instance... the program is to take young adults, ages 18-23, and help them transition into adulthood.  But students cannot even have an independent outing until Phase 3, towards the end of their program, and cannot participate in any sexual act (including kissing) even if it is with someone that is not in the program until they have completed Phase 4 (the final phase) or have left the program.  (It is at least strongly discouraged and then openly discussed for all to hear during raps).  How is that helping students build healthy relationships between themselves and a significant other, whether of the same sex or not?  It is more difficult to learn to draw healthy boundaries when they are drawn for you and also when there are no boundaries to be drawn... you simply cannot engage in any sexual act ever.

[Polarbear]

Shanlea-I don't disagree with you at all.  You're right.  I can't say it makes sense to demean and attack people who are supposed to be getting help.  As for Blownaway's comments-I don't think you can blame all of it on RMA.  You could spend the rest of your life trying to figure that out for yourself. That's something no one can do for you.

Over the years I have tried to piece together what exactly it was about the RMA experience that didn't make sense to me.  There was a lot.  But something I've thought about was maybe there's too little foundation for what they're trying to teach.  It's like they are trying to emphasize a kind of worldview or lifestyle that is similar to a moral one without any of the traditional religious or ethical teaching that ordinarily accompanies it.  

Just for the sake of argument, I think most of us are influenced by a common Judeo/Christian culture, regardless of our beliefs, and it's hard to discuss values and morality without falling back on that shared culture.  Maybe that's where you can rationalize attacking a young person's sexuality?  Outside of that cultural background (or your own personal beliefs) what other absolutes are you enforcing?  
I never saw the school make any conscious recognition of religion beyond the 60s New Age consciousness stuff they tossed into the mix.  

 I would say that I've got some experience with institutional living, having done several years in the military, and religion seems like a side of life you should leave available for people to practice as they wish.  I don't recall it being an option when I was at RMA.  I wouldn't force it on people, like I keep hearing about the Mormons on this site, but I think they should have provided access for those who wanted it.  Then again, I bet they hate to admit there's a higher authority than themselves.  

After reading some other peoples' comments I think back to some raps I was in.  And opening up to deeply personal issues like that to uneducated laymen with petty personalities and no real training is about the last thing I would want to do!  Like I said above-you could spend the rest of your life trying to work out those issues for yourself.  I doubt they could do much good trying to dump shame and humiliation on your most intimate issues.

Enjoy-Polarbear

[Polarbear]

I think the big stumbling block here is we're not dealing with adults.  In most cases the students are, what, 14-18?  So there's a big reason for them to smash any attempts at intimacy right at the get-go.  I wonder how much of that was related to the shutdown of that one school-was it Cascade where the kids had a big sex-a-thon in the housing?

The fact is, these programs run on structure.  They structure everything down to insane detail.  I don't remember the RMA system ever allowing for a personal choice where there were no negative consequences.  Maybe when you're at home or when you leave.  I guess they figure you'll be armed to make the right choices if you just shut up, do it their way, and stay in your lane for a couple years.  You do it their way or you pay.  

I seem to remember them trying to sort of hold the carrot out to us, too.  They had these legendary stories about upper school students who did so well that they were able to live off-campus in town and have a job.  But I never saw it happen while I was there.  No one ever managed to get anything remotely like that, either.  Enjoy-Polarbear

[Anonymous]

does anyone else see glimpse's of pro- homosexuality in any CEDU program?

[Son Of Serbia]

I remember the first Saturday I spent at cedu-rs.
My dorm head & several other older student ass-suckers were trying to get me excited during morning work crews by telling me about the big
"Dance" in the house after lunch.  "Just do your dorm job so you can go to the dance!"--is what they kept telling me.

Anyways, after lunch I'm sitting on a couch in the house, and all the sudden staff starts blasting NEIL DIAMOND on the stereo...And I'm thinking "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!!" and "It's 1991, WHO THE FUCK DANCES TO THIS MUSIC???"

But the other students were going crazy and eating that shit up, honest to god it was like "Dance Party USA" in there!  The kids were really getting down.  The whole time I'm watching this, I know subconciously that something is very, very wrong about all of this...And then I realized what it was:

THE GUYS ARE ALL DANCING WITH GUYS!
THE GIRLS ARE ALL DANCING WITH GIRLS!
I DON'T SEE 1 PERSON HERE DANCING WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX!!!

"OH MY GOD, WHERE THE FUCK AM I???!!!!"

Needless to say at 14 years old I was Horrified.
My dorm head and several other male students invited me dance, I said "I Ain't Gay, So Get the Fuck Away From Me!"

It was later that I found that it is "OUT OF AGREEMENT" for guys to dance with girls at cedu, unless it's with staff of course.  It figures that even something as innocent and natural as dancing would be ruined via some bizarre interprettation of CEDU's NO-SEX AGREEMENT.

Anyways, I witnessed many such gay dances at cedu.  As an older student, I was grilled in raps by staff several times for refusing to participate in Cedu's "dances."  Staff of course told me that I was "too scared to step out of my square."  I would respond by drawing a line with my foot on the carpet and say: "There's the line, and on this side of it, I aint gay!"  That's about the time when everyone else in the room would start yelling at me.

You ask if we believe that Cedu promotes homosexuality?  Well, after spending over a year and a half watching man on man bumping and grinding every other Saturday...I would have to say ABSOLUTELY!!!  And I haven't even mentioned man on man "SMOOSHING" (even more gay than the dances)!  

CEDU SCHOOL IS BY FAR THE GAYEST PLACE I'VE EVER BEEN TO!!!


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[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-12-16 12:26 ]

[Anonymous]

That's really weird.  When I was at CEDU, guy-girl dancing was OK-we just couldn't hang all over each other.  I find it weird that it couldn't be done at all then.  

Sexuality in CEDU was weird over all.  There were always rumors among the guys of rampant nudity and lesbian sex in the girl's dorm.  Some of it was true.  The guy's dorms were all different.  Some were more modest than others.  But there was still lots of sexual goofing around.

[SinfullyHoly194]

ok, you say they lust on homosexuality....but the fact is that the staff and most of the kids are indeed  very extremely homophobic...there was this girl M. that i knew when i was a student there and she was from OK and she was one of the most homophobic people i ever knew. i knew this kid S. and he was gay. and they gave him a lotta shit for it, kept asking him if he was sure or not. so maybe they fed off of homosexuality, but at CHS, Running Springs, Ca...they were extremely afraid of homosexuality

[Son Of Serbia]

(SinfullyHoly)Yes you are right about the Homophobic attitudes of Cedu Staff and students.  At Least Verbally, Cedu-RS is very anti gay, and this was so even back in my day.

Why then did Cedu Staff encourage behavior such as Guys dancing with Guys or man on man "smooshing", that clearly conflicts with their gay-hating beliefs?  Why would Cedu Staff pay so much lip service toward the belief that homosexuality is evil, and yet turn the other cheek while that same behavior was acted out in front of them?

Do you want my answer?  Cedu wanted to confuse us.  We were taught to hate and fear homosexuality. Homosexuality was EVIL.  Yet at the same time, students were strongly encouraged to pursue a level intimacy with people of the same sex(IE: SMOOSHING) that far exceeds what most people would consider normal & healthy
friendly contact.  The line gets really,really, blurred at that point.  "How close can I get with so & so and still not be gay? Are we already doing something gay?  How do I know when I've gone too far?"  These are the questions
that a confused boy at cedu may ask himself.

Now in the real world questions like this would never come up.  That's because we have set boundaries or NORMS in society, and everyone sane knows where the line is that you don't cross.  For instance, I know that I can't just go over to my best friends house, lay down and put my head in his lap, and ask him to play with
my hair....I would get my ass kicked something fierce for doing that, and I would know exactly why he did it too.  That's because in a normal society the rules work in conjuction with one another, everyone knows them, and the difference
between right and wrong is clear as day.

This doesn't exist at Cedu. The whole homosexuality thing for example...The rule is that we hate homosexuals, but in pursuing friendship with people of the same sex, it is okay to cuddle with, lay and top of them, massage them, and caress their hair and faces?!!  At Cedu, the rules are set against one another.

Of course students get confused!  And in their moments of confusion, who do these kids turn to for guidance and answers that their confused minds can't fathom? You guessed it...Cedu Staff,who in the giving of this guidance usally find ways to confuse the kids even more.

It's all about about power.  As long as Cedu students remained frustrated and confused, they will depend on staff for answers and guidance. It is this dependence that gives cedu staff their power, so staff will do their very
best to keep these kids confused.

From what I've read about cults, methods such as these are not new, and have been used for decades by cult leaders to maintain the confidence and dependence of their respective groups.  

Then again, Cedu emerged from a cult (Mel Wasserman was connected to Synanon), so this shouldn't be news to anyone.
Just a thought.  



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[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-12-17 09:39 ]

[blownawaytheidahoway]

You are so so right. Good tip, I wonder what the experts say about the fallout from such a lambasting. Confusion WAS the goal? hmmm that doesn't sound very helpful, mom.

[blownawaytheidahoway]

On 2004-12-16 09:39:00, SON OF SERBIA wrote:

"I remember the first Saturday I spent at cedu-rs.

My dorm head & several other older student ass-suckers were trying to get me excited during morning work crews by telling me about the big

"Dance" in the house after lunch.  "Just do your dorm job so you can go to the dance!"--is what they kept telling me.



Anyways, after lunch I'm sitting on a couch in the house, and all the sudden staff starts blasting NEIL DIAMOND on the stereo...And I'm thinking "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!!" and "It's 1991, WHO THE FUCK DANCES TO THIS MUSIC???"



But the other students were going crazy and eating that shit up, honest to god it was like "Dance Party USA" in there!  The kids were really getting down.  The whole time I'm watching this, I know subconciously that something is very, very wrong about all of this...And then I realized what it was:



THE GUYS ARE ALL DANCING WITH GUYS!

THE GIRLS ARE ALL DANCING WITH GIRLS!

I DON'T SEE 1 PERSON HERE DANCING WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX!!!



"OH MY GOD, WHERE THE FUCK AM I???!!!!"



Needless to say at 14 years old I was Horrified.

My dorm head and several other male students invited me dance, I said "I Ain't Gay, So Get the Fuck Away From Me!"



It was later that I found that it is "OUT OF AGREEMENT" for guys to dance with girls at cedu, unless it's with staff of course.  It figures that even something as innocent and natural as dancing would be ruined via some bizarre interprettation of CEDU's NO-SEX AGREEMENT.



Anyways, I witnessed many such gay dances at cedu.  As an older student, I was grilled in raps by staff several times for refusing to participate in Cedu's "dances."  Staff of course told me that I was "too scared to step out of my square."  I would respond by drawing a line with my foot on the carpet and say: "There's the line, and on this side of it, I aint gay!"  That's about the time when everyone else in the room would start yelling at me.



You ask if we believe that Cedu promotes homosexuality?  Well, after spending over a year and a half watching man on man bumping and grinding every other Saturday...I would have to say ABSOLUTELY!!!  And I haven't even mentioned man on man "SMOOSHING" (even more gay than the dances)!  



CEDU SCHOOL IS BY FAR THE GAYEST PLACE I'VE EVER BEEN TO!!!





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[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-12-16 12:26 ]"

I remember the first dance I saw at RMA. Almost the same...my reaction. That shit was ALL wierd. I see now that it takes weeks to respond to what someone wrote here. What we went through those developmental years did affect us. These strings about sex at cedu should show lots. I'll continue to post when I'm not russian.
Smooshing? Please don't remind me about how NORMAL it was by the end of two years. And how absolutely fagolicious it was (perceived) when I first got there.
One more: Did CEDU promote homosexuality or the opposite...or just confuse?     I'm gonna have to really think about that some. once again,
-blownawaytheidahoway

[Anonymous]

Son of Serbia is exactly right - The whole point is to confuse and thus hypnotise // brainwash // scare.

All of CEDU, BCA, RMA are about brainwashing for profit and a feeling of power for weak staff.

I can attest to this as a former trained and brainwashed CEDU H, RMA and BCA staff member.

[blownawaytheidahoway]

Son of Serbia is exactly right - The whole point is to confuse and thus hypnotise // brainwash // scare.



All of CEDU, BCA, RMA are about brainwashing for profit and a feeling of power for weak staff.



I can attest to this as a former trained and brainwashed CEDU H, RMA and BCA staff member.

You Might like this, Anon...drain my balls, I just couldn't bring myself to edit it. I have "grown" a little more mature since then, apologizing, but ready to further discuss "sex at CEDU".
bompit!

[Anonymous]

i am sort of tripping out because i dont remember guy on guy or girl on girl dancing at cedu.  but i dont remember ever dancing with anyone.  i just remember screaming at the floor and then being showered with affection and so glad that i wasnt screaming at the floor anymore.

i also remember being sure that one staff was homosexual and having sex with the guys in my peer group.  i was extremely jealous that they got to have sex and i didnt.  but the guy i was sure he was having sex with i was pretty sure was actually straight and just taking what he could get, which probably fucked him up pretty bad.  

i never felt any less fear of being caught with a girl at cedu than being caught with a guy, i never felt tempted to try and make out with a girl because i thought i would get off easier.  in fact i felt more scared to try and make out with a girl cause i figure she'd be more likely to tell.