Kerry Call Bush's SSI Privitization a rip off

[thepatriot]

Once again another dumbass politician (John Kerry)
gets all defensive and ignorant over the suggestion of privatizing social security. Claiming the only people it will help is special interests. Hell all those morons dems and repubs alike are in the pockets of special interests. Funny how social security is good enough for Joe six-pack but not the
elitist snobs up on the hill. If you put your own doe in mutual funds or roth IRAS you would have far much more to retire on and you would get all of it back if not for yourself to leave to your family. The fact that are law makers do not participate in the social security program raises enough flags on the fact that it is a corrupt system. This is a fantastic idea if it could ever get past the house we would all be better off contributing to our own retirement instead of contributing to those idiots up on the hill to rob the SSI system and load the coffers with IOU's as they have done in the past

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.ph ... curity.inc

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Sarasota Straight Escapee

[Antigen]

The trouble is that any plan hatched inside the Beltway to ween us down from the (voluntary?) SS program is likely to be about as effective as campaign finance reform. (And, btw, much love to Bill Maher for admitting that he had been wrong on that one!)

I think the only way to get out from under SS is to simply quit paying in. You can do that, ya' know? It's not illegal. You just inform your employer in writing that you do not authorize them to deduct SS payments from your pay. The down side is that you then walk away from any benefits you might already be 'entitled' to.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

[thepatriot]

I like the volutary with the question mark. The only problem with not paying is that most employers will not honor that request because then it puts their ass on the line for not paying into the system. But you are right that anything hatched inside the belt way would be a total joke.

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Sarasota Straight Escapee
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-09-22 13:36 ]

[SyN]

Once again another dumbass politician (John Kerry)
gets all defensive and ignorant over the suggestion of privatizing social security.


If you think the house is going to allow a plan costing 2 trillion to START your nuts.  Bush Played that song 4 years ago then forgot all about, till now of course. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
Of course its a fantastic idea Bush done dern thunked it up.

[Anonymous]

If any one thinks that their 401K retirement fund is going to be around any more than SS, you're a fool.  The market makers are using those funds to prop up a failed market system which will come tumbling down long before you retire.  The market makers are simply securing all that 401K money to go into their pockets when this whole thing falls apart.  Joe six pack will be left holding the bag as always.

[Antigen]

Syn, cost? Not taking money by force is not synonymous w/ spending it.

Todd, actually you can let your employer off the hook by handing them a letter of demand prohibiting them from garnishing your wages under pain of civil action. The real trouble is that, if you do that, chatter around the water cooler is likely to include your name and tin hats in uncomfortable context. Unless, of course, you go to work for a libertarian minded company. If you're self employed, you're kind of screwed.  But at least the boss already knows you're kinda screwy :wink:

Here's an issue along the same lines and, arguably, more profoundly important. How about privitizing political campaigns?

http://www.electionreform.org/ERMain/ed ... nopoly.htm

Both branches of the bipartisan spending party agree that SS is failing. Who was it that said that it's a good thing they don't teach math effectively in highschool anymore cause, if 18 year olds could do math, they'd be out buying enough rope to hang anyone over 60?

If we could eliminate the Dempublican monopoly, maybe we'd be hearing some really good ideas about how, exactly, to go about shutting it down w/ the least possible collateral damage.

Boundary, n.  In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another.
-- Ambrose Bierce,  The Devil's Dictionary

[Deborah]

I thought the primary reason SS was failing was because large amounts of the funds are taken from the SS account to balance the budget. Why? That seems to be the issue that is not being addressed.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html

I'm not sure peoples money is safe in private investments or SS, but I am concerned that many elderly and uneducated will loose their retirement funds to 'bad investments' if it is 'privatized'. Ultimately, I think people should have a choice, but neither choice looks that good to me.

This brings up an issue regarding banks screwing people out of their money. My son (22) opened a savings account. The rep did not explain their 'minimum balance' policy. The account fell below the minimum around Xmas last year. Being unaware of the policy, he never checked his balance and assumed that he had around $800 in the account. He went to make a withdrawal recently and discovered that the account had a balance of $200, because they had been deducting a hefty 'monthly service fee' after it dropped below the minumum.

Does it really 'cost' the bank money for a person to have money in a savings account? Anyone else remember those savings accounts set up through public schools? I would make deposits less than a dollar, had a balance of $25 and earned (small) interest. No service fees. What monthly service do they perform on a savings account to warrant such an exorbinant fee? It's a scam to legally steal people's money.

Needless to say, he closed the account and withdrew what was left of his 'savings', chalking it up to an expensive lesson. How many others is this happening to?

Something similar could happen to retirees who don't have a clue about investments.

[Antigen]

On 2004-09-25 09:52:00, Deborah wrote:

"

I thought the primary reason SS was failing was because large amounts of the funds are taken from the SS account to balance the budget. Why? That seems to be the issue that is not being addressed.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html

Well, there are a lot of reasons why the system has failed. First and formost, because it's a classic Ponzi scheme. At the time the SS system was sold to Americans, the "retirement age" when people could begin collecting from their "private numbered accounts" was 60. That happened to be just about exactly the life expectancy at the time. So the Federal government was counting on roughly half of contributors to kick the bucket before collecting their first payment. Well, we're living a good deal longer these days. Then there are all of the adjustments and changes, like SSI for disabled contributors and their dependents.

Like I said before, it's a good thing they don't teach math in public schools anymore. If they did, all the 18 year olds would be out buying enough rope to hang everyone over 40.

I'm not sure peoples money is safe in private investments or SS, but I am concerned that many elderly and uneducated will loose their retirement funds to 'bad investments' if it is 'privatized'. Ultimately, I think people should have a choice, but neither choice looks that good to me.

I agree. But I'd rather have a choice. Personally, I've always favored the real old fashioned retirement plan. Invest in housing, raising good kids and fostering strong friendships so that, when I'm old and frail, I'll have a place to live and someone to take care of me.

This brings up an issue regarding banks screwing people out of their money. My son (22) opened a savings account. The rep did not explain their 'minimum balance' policy. The account fell below the minimum around Xmas last year. Being unaware of the policy, he never checked his balance and assumed that he had around $800 in the account. He went to make a withdrawal recently and discovered that the account had a balance of $200, because they had been deducting a hefty 'monthly service fee' after it dropped below the minumum.

Yup, buyer beware. You can always move your busines to another bank or adjust your services within the same institution. You can't do that w/ SS no matter how badly they screw you because it's a monopoly system.

Something similar could happen to retirees who don't have a clue about investments.



"

Are you joking? Something similar has happened to retirees. Not quite as bad as what's about to happen to the babyboomers when they retire. But what are ya gonna do? You can't just move your SS account to another institution that offers a better deal or that will invest more responsibly.

Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense...
-- John Adams, (1788)

[Anonymous]

Do you really think it's smart to invest in a country/currency that punishes you for saving?

This is currency failure 101.

Our entire currency is built on a Ponzi Scheme, and this house of cards is coming down.

[Antigen]

No, as I said above. I think the safest investment you can make is to invest in your family and friends while you're alive.

It only takes a little prescience to understand that we're all fair game for the deeds we condone.

--Antigen

[Deborah]

Bush Plans to Loot SS
http://www.new-enlightenment.com/sss1.htm