Teen Help Programs

[amiee101]

I attended both Cross Creek Manor, and Provo Canyon School. The similarities are astounding. Both based on the same basic structure, but I have to say that I took more damage from Cross Creek Manor. The damage I sustained from PCS was minimal -- but only in comparison to CCM. I am interested in articles and facts about the Lichfield programs (Majestic Ranch included, as that is owned by Bob Lichfields wifes father) and what we can do to make sure that no other kids have to go through what we did.
My roommate also attended Cross Creek Manor.

[GregFL]

On 2002-07-03 13:56:00, amiee101 wrote:
I attended both Cross Creek Manor, and Provo Canyon School. The similarities are astounding. Both based on the same basic structure, but I have to say that I took more damage from Cross Creek Manor. The damage I sustained from PCS was minimal -- but only in comparison to CCM. I am interested in articles and facts about the Lichfield programs (Majestic Ranch included, as that is owned by Bob Lichfields wifes father) and what we can do to make sure that no other kids have to go through what we did.

My roommate also attended Cross Creek Manor.

You can start by posting your story, what happened to you, why you feel these programs are abusive. Do some research into the origins of the modality they used. Then, talk to someone here about hosting a discussion site. All you need is the desire and a little time, the vehicle is already here. Good luck.

[Deborah]

This is my working file on Teen Help. If anyone has links to add, please pass them along.  It is by no means complete, just began last week.
D


TEEN HELP  WWASP   Utah
BOD: Bob Lichfield,  Brent Facer, J. Ralph Atkin
Executive Director Karr Farnsworth
Ken Kay Brightway Administrator
Jay Kay Tranquility Bay director and former hospital administrator

Teen Help is an umbrella name for a consortium of companies headquartered in the red canyonlands of southwestern Utah.  Parents training in separate multiday seminars, patterned after 1970s-era pop group-awareness sessions of est and LifeSpring.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp4.shtml

Psychologist Margaret Singer, professor emeritus at the U of C at Berkeley, says that Teen Help practices "large group awareness training," a technique designed to turn an individual into an instrument of a larger group.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp7.shtml

David Gilcrease, designed Teen Help's  BM  seminars
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp9.shtml

David Gilcrease's bio, and a mother's account of the seminar.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... eaking.htm

Rules for Seminar
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rogram.htm

1/8/1998  TH Incorporated in Utah as a domestic non-profit
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... _wwasp.htm

Conglomerate of programs and facilities
http://www.factnet.org/letters/letter.html?
FACTNet

Shady business practices: unqualified staff, spamdexing
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... exing.html

Participant referral fees paid
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... pidnet.htm

Spamdexing is obviously a flagrant violation of all search engine guidelines," says Pursley. "But it is more than that. The whole site is a violation of advertising ethics. For me it's a lot more relevant than some abstract cyber-issue, because it affects real people's lives: It misleads people about what options are available for their kids. These schools are absolutely unethical and manipulative from beginning to end -- from search engine rules to how they actually treat the kids."
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ature.html

CRITICS:
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html

Reason for the convoluted ownership situation is to shield Bob Lichfield from liability
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html

0/2001  Political contributions to Rep Party  #3 Teen Help LLC $158,790.
Top Soft Money Donors  #3 Teen Help $125,000 LLC.   LICHFIELD, ROBERT B
LAVERKIN, UT  $125,000.    FACER, BRENT M
ST GEORGE, UT  $500
http://www.opensecrets.org/states/contr ... &Year=2002


Adolescent Services International- Referral Service
Narvin Lichfield Owner

Promotes TH WWASP programs as RTC, but licensed as Res Service Prog.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/a
si_disses_intrepidnet.htm

Fraudulent Advertising
ASI presents as a "service" center for parents dealing with "teens in crisis," with strong implication that it is unaffiliated with particular schools. But Adolescent Services was founded last year by a man named Narvin Lichfield, who for the previous seven years had been the managing director of Teen Help, the marketing wing of the WWASP.
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html


Brightway Adolescent Hospital (closed)
18-bed adolescent hospital,  24-bed adult treatment hospital. Licensed by the Utah Dept of Health to the Utah Alcoholism Foundation, the units were in fact run since 1993 under contract to a group of Southern Utah businesses.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... nly_...htm


8/1997 Authorities restricted license,
facility failed to report suspected case of child abuse and repeatedly treated teenagers before getting both parents' permission
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... N73509.DTL

2/1998  Utah officials said the hospital failed to report two cases of suspected tuberculosis and failed to provide individualized treatment plans for its charges.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... N73509.DTL


3/1998  Adolescent unit closed voluntarily after several disciplinary citations by the Dept of Health.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... only_..htm


3/19/1998 closed by its owner this week after numerous complaints by state
regulators over how it treated troubled teenagers, some of whom were later shipped to overseas boot camps.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... N73509.DTL

Carolina Springs Academy--Donalds/Due West, South Carolina, USA  (See S. Carolina Programs file)

Casa By the Sea--Ensenada, Mexico

Cross Creek Manor--LaVerkin, Utah, USA
Teen Help  WWASP program
http://www.factnet.org/letters/letter.html?FACTNet

CCM, originally incorporated in 1990 as a Utah Corporation by Robert Lichfield, voluntarily dissolved, March 25, 1997. Incorporated as an LLC 3/25/97 and owned by Recaf, Inc. and JILL-CO, Inc. both Nevada Corporations.  Officers, members of the Lichfield,Facer,Atkin family.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... etter.html

Staff members at CCM are "employed" by the employee leasing firm Resource Management, Inc.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... pidnet.htm

11/13/1998 Celece Dochterman (12) abused.  Parents file lawsuit, one week after Morava closed.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... wsuit.html
http://www.desnews.com/cgi-bin/libstory ... 9811220397

2/1999 Marie Peart Adm Dir, part of WWASP, remodel
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html

Linden House for Pregnant Teens--Saint George, Utah (See Utah Programs file)

Morava Academy--Brno, Czech Republic (closed)
11/9/1998   under investigation after the arrests of four staff members including the American Director, Glenn Roach for abusing children in their care. An unscheduled visit by American diplomats yielded evidence of
physical abuse and neglect. Czech police have filed charges.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... orava.html

Links to other articles
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... uments.htm

Roach's were also involved with Sunrise Beach which was closed.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... beach.html

MAJESTIC RANCH    Randolph, Utah
Affiliated with Teen Help/ WWASP  (see Utah Programs file)

1991 Jodi Tuttle and Carol Gundry refer for retainer, not commission
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html

6/1992  Majestic Ranch Review at Strugglingteens
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np02.html

2/1997   Purchase of land from Steve and Nancy Cowdrey of Spring Creek
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews04.html

Majestic part of WWASAP, opened in 1997
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... rate.shtml

Intrepid inquires about ownership, assoc with WWASAP
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... etter.html

6/2002  Att General Press Release
http://attygen.state.ut.us/Press%20Rele ... 014%202002
..htm
http://www.political1.com/Utah/6.4.02.ag.PR2.asp

6/2002  Dir Wayne E. Winder charged with Sexual Abuse. Owners say their facility is a boarding school. However, the state classifies the ranch as a RTC. The Office of Licensing has sent a letter notifying the owners they need a Human Services license to operate
http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jun/06152002/utah/745780.htm


Paradise Cove--Apia, Western Samoa
Enrollment Agreement -Contract
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... #Restraint

Randy Cook's account of being escorted to Brightway, then PC
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... only_..htm

Randy Rogers account of being escorted to Brightway then PC
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... only_..htm


Rules and Consequences
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... e_cove.htm

Newsletter for parents with teens at PC
http://www.vpp.com/teenhelp/pokis.html

9/1998   State Dept  received "credible allegations" of abuse at Paradise Cove. Kay says he knew nothing about the investigation.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp4.shtml

11/17/1998  STANLEY GOOLD, III files lawsuit. COMPLAINT FOR NEGLIGENCE; NEGLIGENT CHILD ABUSE; FALSE IMPRISONMENT; INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS; BREACH OF FIDUCIARY DUTY; RICO; NEGLIGENT INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... dsuit.html

3/21/2000 Corey Murphy commits suicide after 32 mo in TH Montana and Paridise Cove, W. Samoa. Ken Kay says that only two or three kids in the program have committed suicide, while hundreds have benefited.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml

5/2000   TH ends its relationship with Paradise Cove.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp4.shtml

Redrock Ranch Academy--Saint George, Utah, USA
Teen Help WWASP  Program
http://www.factnet.org/letters/letter.html?FACTNet

12/25/2001 Katherine Lank dies.  Multiple violations of regs, state filed "notice of intent to revoke license", remains open pending protest hearing. Ratio 2:9 (law 1:4), hiking unsupervised in dangerous area, least experienced staff,
http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jul/07192002/utah/754809.htm

5/2002  Salt Lake Tribune, $6 million wrongful-death lawsuit by parents of
Katherine Lank, who fell into a deep crevice while hiking, also demanded a jury trial.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/seennheard/index.html

Spring Creek Lodge--Thompson Falls, Montana (See Montana Programs file)

1999  TH/WWASP's  ASI (referral service) lists SCL as a RTC, licensed as a RSP in Utah, no license in Montana.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... pidnet.htm


Sunrise Beach--Cancun, Mexico (closed)
Immigration officials at Cancun Airport arrested Glenda and Steve Roach as well as two Mexican Nationals on a variety of charges including depriving juveniles of their liberty. Because the charges included an ongoing investigation of sexual abuse the couple was held initially without bail.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... beach.html

Glenda and Steve Roach also involved with Morava (see below)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... orava.html

Tranquility Bay--Treasure Beach Jamaica
8/13/1997 David and Scott Burke abducted and sent to PC by Houston Stockbroker father, Stoney Burke.  Mother Donna wasn't told.  First stop, Brightway.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... _burke.htm

11/1997     David Van Blarigan  abducted.
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html

1/1998  Van Blarigan appealed to legal authorities to get him out
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html

4/20/1998  Social worker ordered to visit TB, her account.
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... ty_bay.htm

9/25/1998  Justin Goen abducted, links to numerous Colubumia Dispatch articles at
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... uments.htm

1/15/1999  A Mother's Account  Karen E Lile
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... lile2.html

4/29/1999  Donna Burke (Tx) files lawsuit. NEGLIGENCE; NEGLIGENT CHILD ABUSE; FALSE IMPRISONMENT;  INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS; BREACH OF FIDUCIARY DUTY; RICO; NEGLIGENT INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... awsuit.htm

5/14/1999   Kathleen Thornton sues People Mag for article with picture of her son.
http://www.registerguard.com/news/19990 ... .0514.html

11/1997 David Van Blarigan abducted.
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html


Youth Programs International (defunct)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PROVO CANYON Provo, Utah
Farnsworth, Lichfield, and Facer of Teen Help WWSAP are veterans of Provo Canyon (see Teen Help Utah)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... wsuit.html

Unofficial Alumni Website-personal stories
http://papamugz.tripod.com/

A personal account
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/index2.htm

9/1982  Lawsuit MILONAS v. WILLIAMS, violations of First and Fourteenth Amendment rights
http://papamugz.tripod.com/page13.html

8/1996 Celebrates 25 yrs
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html

30 July 03
NOTE: If you have problems with any of the Intrepid Net Reporter links, type in
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com
Notice that "reporter" is now plural, with an "s".
Deborah

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-07-30 17:21 ]

[Britt15]

If anyone has any information at all on the family school in new york can you please email me back and let me know thank you!
sweethang1431@aol.com
Britt-

[Anonymous]

"In the burgeoning new industry that promises parents to straighten out their defiant teens, no programs are more controversial than those linked by several Utah-based umbrella groups [WWASP, Teen Help]. One of the programs, in Mexico, was shut by local authorities in 1996. A program in the Czech Republic was shut by local authorities last fall. A third, Brightway Adolescent Hospital in St. George, Utah, closed during a state investigation last year."

[Anonymous]

Here is a link to an interesting article in the Deseret Morning News about the lack of regulatory control over boarding schools in Utah.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510033604,00.html

[Anonymous]

What is the percentage of parents that believe everything they read? Could it be the same parents that are always rescuing their kid and blaming someone else for their behavior?  Or could it be the same parents that believe everything their kid says even though the evidence shows otherwise?  Are they the parents that make excuses for their kid over and over again so THEY don't look bad?  How are they doing anyway? Are they successful because YOU did it for them? Are these the same parents that read letters from their kid claiming abuse at a WWASP school and believed it?  Oh, by the way, if the mail is censored, then how did that get by the censors??  LOL!!

One thing I find extremely fascinating is that you blast parents that go the distance to save their kid from dangerous choices. Are you not saying that a parent who has their kid in a "program" shouldn't be a parent?  Oh YES you say!  Are you saying that a parent has no rights...only their child who rules the family and creates chaos...that's okay here!  It's okay to do whatever they please, when they please and their should be no consequences? Consequences didn't work anyway.  These are the same kids that may call the police and say their parents hit them when the parents "try to be a parent" and attempt to enforce discipline by grounding or taking away priviledges.  These are the same kids that constantly say, "there's nothing you can do" while the parents are taking anti-depressents just to be able, in some way, to deal with it. These kids know the drill...call the cops to get the parents off their back!!  These are parents that are on the verge of losing their jobs (both parents are working to buy the kid his/her "things")because they are getting calls from the school because their kid has decided they don't want to go anymore. These are parents that have done everything for their kid, only the kid keeps wanting more and more until they are almost broke from trying to please their kid. The single mom who works all day only to come home to demands from their kid for more, more, more.  Oh, yes...that's our society - keep up with the clothes, the make-up, the cars, the "stuff"...all the external fixes.  When the fixes no longer work, then what?  These are the parents that BEG the school for help, BEG the counselors to help them be better parents, BEG the police to help when their kid steals their car and are told you just need to be a better parent!!!    What I read here is that when a parent that knows their kid is worth whatever it takes - emotionally and financially, if they spend money to help them, they are again being bad parents??? If insurance pays for it, then it's okay?  Oh yes, again...the little 3-30 day band-aids are just fine. Even better, if the STATE pays for it, then the quality creates lasting results and a big success rate? Not to mention being in a situation with felons and negative peer influences.  Whooppee!!  There you go - that's the answer - Or even better, keep them at home and keep on trying to change them while siblings see it, while the parents divorce over it, while people like YOU are sitting in judgment.  Thank you for your concern in offering something other than hatred and victim stories.    How dare you accuse thousands of parents of being abusive by giving their kid a new chance at life - NOT another chance to self-destruct.  

Has even ONE of the supposed abuse cases against WWASP/Teen Help EVER been proven true? No, I didn't think so!  Consider the sources - poor baby said they were starving or being mistreated or brainwashed - here come the parents to the rescue again!  It must be true - they always told the truth before, why would they start lieing now? What a burden it must be to always be in a co-dependent relationship.  As long as the kid knows the parents will be there to rescue them again and again, they will keep doing what they're doing.  Someone has to be right.  Right? Was this not the same kid that kicked or punched holes in the wall at home because they didn't get their way??  These same kids were given the opportunity at Dundee Ranch and did the SAME things - NOW someone must be held accountable, and it won't be the poor, innocent, kind and considerate kid. Will the parents EVER get over the guilt - my guess is they never stopped feeling guilty  for not being able to take care of the problems themselves.  These are the same parents that felt guilty for needing help!! Get over it!

Sensationalism sells - look at the newspapers in general - bad news or good news catches your eye?? The big bad program, oh my god, took away priviledges...or made them listen to audio tapes alone and write an essay...horrors!!  The "untrained" staff, you say, restrained someone from hurting someone else...why don't they just let them beat the crap out of each other?  That would be a better way, of course. Hog tied?  for three days?  I guess dad was there and saw it all?  Why was this kid the ONLY one with this story?  Give ME proof - and quit quoting biased newspaper articles or web pages that no longer exist (if they ever did.)  If a kid was hog tied then they deserve a big settlement!  For every one kid that wants to come home, not to his/her parents, but to their friends, and tell outlandish tales to get there, I'll bet there are hundreds more that will tear that story into confetti. Aimee - you attended Cross Creek Manor, did you graduate or convince your parents you were being abused and they brought you home?  

What I read here sounds like VICTIM in the worst way.  How sad to live your life as a victim.  That's what I love about the world wide web - freedom of speech and anyone can say anything to be "right."  It sounds narcissistic to me - plenty of you to validate your view...must make you feel worthwhile, huh?

Hey, why don't you ask a recruit in basic about their physical training?  Some out of control kid doing the same thing would say it was abuse.  Or better yet, ask the kid with ADD in public school who has been told how bad and stupid they are everyday until they believe it...and ask the parent who never did anything about it if they would make the same choice again or invest in their kid's future if they had to do it all over again. Maybe someone should sue the military or the public school teachers!  I'm kidding, of course.  

Wouldn't it be a better choice to give a child a positive  internal experience in a positive environment when the parent(s) can no longer do it all by themselves?  If my kid had a terminal illness would I treat him/her myself?  No, I'd trust the experts to do what they do best. Not just for my kid, but for me too.

[Anonymous]

Good God, these program parents aren't just stupid. They are positively toxic!!!

[MORSEGLASS]

well anon, why wont you say who you are? you dont want us to know? if a child is knownly put in abusive placeby their parents, that child needs another advocate!! im not just believing the papers!! my daughter saw kids get hit! and there is other kids (and staff member) that have verified her story regarding a child! if you think this is ok, you have problems not your child, i understand where your coming from  (well sort of) sometimes parents are desperate, and think is nothing you can do,  there is good answers out there. i do not think my child is a liar, i would not believe someone who makes a living off children in the programs, over my child! if you think it was just one child you have not done your research! and you are right about one thing i do feel guilty! also i feel i was taken advantage of! you must believe everything your family rep tells you! i know mine flat lied to me!  also the "poor baby" you refer to aspunching holes in the wall, that wasnt my child she went looking for a phone, to call home, she didnt stick around,  you said "why dont they just let them beat the crap out of each other?"  well they do, thats one of the problems!  letting upperlevels hit, restrain, and give out cats. these kids are in the program to, their there for a reason not for being upstanding citizens, and these same children have the right to be a "boss" i dont feel this is ok, have you ever asked you child when they were on lower levels about the food? and did they ever recieve juice?  my daughter laughed at the meal menu, she drank juice 2 times, on the meal menu it says they get it almost every meal, (boy i bet that saves them alot of money)what about in the family picture of the girls at dundee, the one where there was a girl standing next to the lower level girls. she a upper level! youll see her a couple of picture down, why do you think she was standing with the lower levels?   you said id let experts deal with this, thats a joke  medical doctors have training, what training does the kays and lichfields have? i would like you to enlighten me!  oh yeah besides their ties with wwasp!

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-16 19:57 ]

[Anonymous]

You Program Parents could save lots of money by setting up your own BM facility at home.
One parent could quit work or support the ex in doing so.
Set up an in-house prison system.
Remove radios, TV, newspapers, telephones -cut off all contact with the outside world.
Hire a tutor or buy educational software.
Require your kid to earn the right to look at you or out the window and raise their hand before speaking.
Create an isolation/OP/torture room- might even have a rack/stocks or make oxygen a privelege.
If they become unruly or threaten to report you for abuse, you can throw them in isolation for extended periods. Or hire a couple of goons to restrain him and show him who's boss.
Require them to do manual labor around the house and neighborhood and PT them everyday.
Limit calories to keep them physically weak and complacent- proper nutrition as a privilege, not a right.
Make them earn the right to personal hygiene and toileties, and luxuries such as toilet paper.
Take them to a remote area every day and require them to hunt, kill, and cook their own dinner.
If they become very defiant you could take them out in the heat of the day, wearing black sweats and force march them up and down a hill for hours on end. (Careful here. If you defend your child's collapse/death with "I thought he was "faking" the courts may not extend the same leineancy to a parent...they aren't professionals, only pros can get away with that defense.)
I'm sure there are other suggestions.

Yes, a parent could save themselves a lot of money. There is one small problem. This kind of treatment is considered child endangerment, abuse, neglect out here in the real world, as witnessed by the post about the LA parents.
And therein lies the rub. Why is it acceptable at a program? Why is it acceptable when a "professional" abuses a teen? Pure and simple- it is a double standard. And officals overlook this because government would rather the parents pay for private incarceration than burden the city/state.

I think another reason parents don't set up their own harsh in-house BM program is because in their heart of hearts, they know it is wrong to treat another person this way. Their conscience wouldn't allow it. Then why does it allow them to hire it done?

What? You say that parents don't know these things are happening? Isn't that fraud? The program didn't inform you of the BM/torture methods they would employ? When you take your child for a risky medical procedure or operation, aren't you informed and asked to consent to the recommended "treatment"? Why is psychological treatment any different? Further, would you allow a non credentialed person to perform the medical procedure? Many of these programs do not have credentialed staff. Even if they have credentials they are usually young, and trained in the facility's methods. They are trained to identify everything as manipulation and punish it. Or to identify collapses as "faking". They are so intent on enforcing the march, that they too often miss vital clues about the teens well being.

Did you ask what BM is? Did you ask what methods of punisment/discipline would be employed? Or did you assume the hefty price for the program was insurance that your child would be in safe hands?
I asked, legitimate questions and was labled "adversarial" which sparked a viscous campaign to prove this to the courts. The program aided my ex in doing so.

If a parent fails to educate themselves, asks hard questions, have an attorney review the contract, etc- then the parent is equally responsible for what happens to their offspring. The idea that the "professionals" know what's best is not necessarily true, and many times not the case at all. They can not be objective, this is their livlihood. There is a conflict of interest beyond your wildest imagination.

I can usually have compassion for one who is genuienely ignorant and makes stupid mistakes. That's not the case with the judicial system. Break the law and you will feel their wrath. Parents are expected to be more cautious, competent, and intellegent when looking out for the well-being of their child.

There may be programs that are less abusive than others, but they employ their own version of BM, which remains a controversial theory. They all isolate the teen from the world and rarely tell the truth about what is happening "inside" the compound.

Anonymous, you ask:

>>What is the percentage of parents that believe everything they read?

I don't know, but I would bet money there are vastly more parents who believe everything the program tells them.

>>Could it be the same parents that are always rescuing their kid and blaming someone else for their behavior?

I will ask you, isn't the program "rescuing" you? When will you be held accountable for wrecking your relationship with your child?

>>Are you saying that a parent has no rights...only their child who rules the family and creates chaos...that's okay here! It's okay to do whatever they please, when they please and their should be no consequences?

Ever read the poem about A Child Will Become What He Learns? A child who "creates chaos" is showing the degree that they did not receive what humans need to make constructive choices in their life. A defiant child is holding a mirror up to the parents and that image is painful to see, so the quick remedy is to incarcerate them. No more disgusting looks in the mirror, and you get to appear to be doing the "right" thing for your child.

>>These are parents that have done everything for their kid, only the kid keeps wanting more and more until they are almost broke from trying to please their kid. The single mom who works all day only to come home to demands from their kid for more, more, more. Oh, yes...that's our society - keep up with the clothes, the make-up, the cars, the "stuff"...all the external fixes. When the fixes no longer work, then what?

You are missing the obvious. Those "things" are pacifiers for what they really want...you present and active in their life, modeling respectful relationships. There are many other ways to "deal with the problem" than you are able to imagine. You will never convince a critic that you have done everything to "help your child" or that your choice to incarcerate him was made "to save his life". That kind of support is given at Struggling Teens message board. You won't find much of that here.

>>As long as the kid knows the parents will be there to rescue them again and again, they will keep doing what they're doing. Someone has to be right. Right?

And as long as there are programs to "rescue" parents, they will continue to punish the child for the negative relationship they as parents are responsible for fostering. They won't be motivated to look at their own shortcomings and will pay to have their child tortured into accepting the fact that their parents expect them to "behave" inspite of the lack of connection they feel in the relationship.

>>Will the parents EVER get over the guilt - my guess is they never stopped feeling guilty for not being able to take care of the problems themselves. These are the same parents that felt guilty for needing help!! Get over it!

You and they are the one's who need to "get over it". Parents ARE accountable for the obvious deterioration in their relationship with their child and all it's manifestations. There is no one else to put it off on. Get over it and get some help. When you had that child you made an agreement (similar to a marriage vow) to love and cherish him/her and look out for their well being until they reached legal age. Get your priorties straight. Learn what humans need to feel safe and connected in the world. That should have been done years before conception. You should feel guilt. Guilt motivates us to learn and grow, to do things differently.


>>The big bad program, oh my god, took away priviledges...or made them listen to audio tapes alone and write an essay...horrors!!

How would it feel to have the gov't step in and take away YOUR "privileges"? Uh, hey Mr/Mrs Moron, we have determined (based on the degree your child's acting out) that you have a compromised relationship with your child and are not meeting his/her real needs. One of you must forgo your career/volunteer work/etc and learn how to parent. You must complete this training and prove competency before resuming any activities outside your family. Now that's a solution I could whole heartedly support.

>>What I read here sounds like VICTIM in the worst way. How sad to live your life as a victim. That's what I love about the world wide web - freedom of speech and anyone can say anything to be "right." It sounds narcissistic to me - plenty of you to validate your view...must make you feel worthwhile, huh?

Did not the program rescue you, you poor VICTIM of "abuse from your child"? I have no empathy for an adult who can't figure out how to make a relationship with a minor work. I have stopped visiting the other sites where program supporters sympathize with each other because I am sick to death of hearing how they are VICTIMS of their children.

>>Hey, why don't you ask a recruit in basic about their physical training? Maybe someone should sue the military or the public school teachers! I'm kidding, of course.

You can't be saying that the treatment that consenting adults endure in basic training is good for teens. Sue military/schools. Good idea, they are both destructive in their own unique ways. The former intended to destroy a person to the point of being able to kill another human being. There are some screwed up people in the military. And many who killed and are still trying to recover.

>>Wouldn't it be a better choice to give a child a positive internal experience in a positive environment when the parent(s) can no longer do it all by themselves? If my kid had a terminal illness would I treat him/her myself? No, I'd trust the experts to do what they do best. Not just for my kid, but for me too.

Who are you kidding. Nothing in your post suggests that your/their child ever had a positive environment prior to program. If the kid had a terminal illness would you allow a non-credentialed person to treat/operate on him? And, as I said before, the "experts" are not always objective.

Yes, the child needs a positive internal experience, which is obvious that you nor the program can provide. Your living in an illusion if you think anything different. Face the truth. Your relationship deteriorated to the point that you hate your child and blame him/her for the discord in your family. You dispise him/her so much you are willing to have them abused. I sometimes imagine that you and other's like you actually get off on the thought that your child is being severely abused...punishment for holding up a mirror to your face and disrupting YOUR life.

I would fully support a program that treated a teen with due respect. I haven't seen one yet. They all isolate them from their families and the world and hold them accountable for everything. That is not a long-term solution. You might get "results", but I don't believe for a minute they represent a "positive internal experience".

And the debate goes on.
Deborah

[Anonymous]

Thanks Deborah for defending the basic civil and human rights of children and making the case that there is no excuse for abuse.  Check out this article about the BM tactics and techniques used by the parents of a California teen.  Thank God these people lost their parental rights instead of being patted on the back for getting tough with their non-compliant children.

Two on trial for love that was too tough
Date: November 23 2002


Was it an effort by parents to discipline their wayward child or was it cruelty? Stuart Pfeifer writes from Newport Beach, California.

Grady and Deborah Machnick were distressed about their teenage son's behaviour. His chores went unfinished. His grades were slipping. He stole money from them and shoplifted at the local supermarket. So the parents took drastic steps.

Grady Machnick, a Los Angeles County sheriff's sergeant, and his wife, an elementary school principal, locked the boy out of the house until he finished his algebra homework. Some nights they forced him to sleep outside on a dog mat.

When the boy did not pick up droppings left by the family dogs his stepmother scooped up the litter from the backyard and put them in his backpack before he went to school.

Often he was excluded from the dinner table, forced to eat leftovers in the kitchen while the rest of the family dined on freshly cooked meals.

The Machnicks say they did this to discipline a wayward son before he got into even worse trouble. Prosecutors say their actions were not only misguided but criminal.

The parents went on trial this week in a child-endangerment case the likes of which prosecutors say they have never seen before. Most child abuse involves sudden, violent acts. This case focuses on what Orange County authorities describe as premeditated psychological cruelty.

Essentially, the Machnicks are accused of going overboard in "positive reinforcement" and other steps right out of a parenting self-help book. Implicitly, the case asks the justice system to define when parental tough love veers into a criminal act. The Machnicks are charged with misdemeanour child endangerment and felony conspiracy. If convicted of both offences they could each be sentenced to up to three years' jail. The couple, who have pleaded not guilty, do not dispute many of the allegations, though they deny ever physically harming the boy, now 16 and at high school.

"One of my biggest regrets is I was unable to find a form of behaviour modification that would work," Grady Machnick said in a statement released by his lawyer. The boy "has great potential but simply would not obey school or home rules".

In May 2001, the boy ran away. He arrived at his best friend's house after 1am, his hair soaking wet. He told his friend his father had awakened him by dousing him with "several gallons" of water to punish him for returning home late from school.

A week later, the friend's family informed police the Machnicks's son was living with them. When a detective arrived to interview Grady Machnick, the father said: "He didn't commit any crimes, did he?"

Later, when a social worker told him his son wanted to come home, Machnick said he would take him back only if he could continue with his disciplinary regimen. Authorities placed the boy in the custody of his best friend's family.

A social worker, Curtis Vaughn, concluded that "father and stepmother have totally failed in their parental duties to inform and instruct the child".

After charges were filed against the parents, the Sheriff's department placed Grady Machnick on unpaid leave. Deborah Machnick was relieved of her principal's duties and shifted to an administrative post where she has no contact with children.

The boy's name has been withheld because he is a minor.

Los Angeles Times

[spots]

I have learned the hard lesson that no amount of enlightenment, cajoling, threatening, pleading...absolutely nothing will change the mind of one who "needs" to know WWASP is OK.  They've made this decision, and it stinks to high heaven, so they need a heavy dose of perfume to cover up the stench.  

The object of our attention has been held prisoner out of the country for nearly 8 months now, and we can no longer communicate with her even by edited letters.  I asked the US State Department field office to make an American Citizens Welfare Check on her (to let her know we were at least still out there and desperately caring about her welfare).  The consular staff person (suspect for a lot of reasons, particularly for his very cozy relationship with the local WWASP director) refused, after phoning the custodial parent at home in the US and ***asking her permission for a check***!!!  He suggested we simply wait it out until the parent ran out of money, and then work to re-establish our relationship with this child.

We are currently out of options, save for the closing of the facility by governments or lawsuits, etc.  The burning in my gut now feeds on the post-WWASP scene...not the one where terrified graduates behave themselves like robots for the first 2 or 4 months after returning home.  It is the time of older adolescence when the child finally gets a chance to tip-toe into independence, and goes hog-wild against everything the smug, "I saved your life" parent says.  It is the time 10 years down the road, when the child-turned-woman has her own family, and never or seldom visits Grandma.  It is the times at Christmas and 4th of July when the entire extended family traditionally gathers, and the "I saved your life" parent sits alone at home with her new spouse...or all alone because all the people known "from before"...family, friends, even neighbors, keep her far distant. It is the time during the middle of the night when the parent wonders if she really did the right thing, and there is no one close to comfort her and assure her because they all hate her for her abuse of her teen. It is a LIFE decision you made, Anonymous Parent, and it will haunt you forever.  

Hate corrodes the vessel that carries it...but it can make do in a pinch.  I grieve, I worry, I fear...but right now, I hate.

[Anonymous]

Like I said, biased newspaper articles are rampant in the Dundee Ranch reporting.  Tim Weiner, who is with the NY Times is extremely biased in his past articles regarding Dundee Ranch.  
 
http://www.azcentral.com/community/nw/c ... n0625.html

Newsroom Spin Causes Credibility to Nose-Dive
Jun. 25, 2003 12:00 AM


The echoes of the New York Times scandal that resulted in the resignations of two top editors will reverberate in newsrooms for a long time.

Since the Times' revelation that reporter Jason Blair invented and stole stories and faked story datelines, other newspaper and TV executives are taking a harder look at their hiring and management policies.

But people's confidence in news organizations of all kinds has already taken a hit. If you can't believe the New York Times, widely perceived as the most credible newspaper in the country, whom can you believe? Public confidence in the media has plunged lately - a USA Today/CNN poll last month found that only 36 percent of the people believe news organizations get the facts straight.

How can a responsible citizen find out what's really going on? By asking three questions: What is the media source? Who or what are the quoted sources? Is the information factual, or is it colored by the reporter's opinion?

All news organizations filter news through their own particular political bias. The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post are perceived as liberal.

The Wall Street Journal and Fox News are thought of as conservative. The spin can be obvious in the way a story or its headline is written. Or it can be more subtle in the way it is either emphasized or played down by its placement in the newspaper or broadcast. If you don't like the spin put on information by one newspaper, TV or radio show, consult a different one.

Crucial to evaluating information is the quoted source or sources. Did the reporter witness the event personally, or is the reporter merely a "talking head" telling you what somebody else told him?

The TV reporter who claims Baghdad is burning while you see the fires in the distance is pretty reliable. The news anchor who talks about it later is not quite so convincing.

Also, determine if the source is a disinterested party or has a vested interest in the reported project. Drug studies sponsored by companies who manufacture the drugs, or weight loss studies sponsored by weight loss pill manufacturers are highly suspect. Quotes by the American Medical Association or the American Heart Association are more credible.

Additionally, is the source an authority on the subject, or just someone lower on the executive food chain who doesn't really know enough to comment? Reporters who can't immediately reach a primary source sometimes quote a less reliable one when they're on deadline.

Does the reporter quote anonymous sources? This should raise a red flag with anyone who wants to get credible information. Most newspapers don't even require the reporter to identify the anonymous source to an editor. And some papers will go with a story when only one or two anonymous sources agree.

If a newspaper story relies almost completely on anonymous sources, or a TV newscaster repeatedly uses the phrases "reportedly," or "sources say," beware.

Most important of all in evaluating the credibility of information is to closely analyze the way the story is written. Is the reporter giving you only the facts, or is he coloring them with his own particular bias?

If the story begins: "In an effort to shore up his declining popularity poll figures, President Bush spoke recently at . . . ," you are getting the reporter's opinion.

Also, if only one side of an issue is presented, or one side is presented more sympathetically than the other, you are getting reporter (or editor) opinion.

The line between facts and opinion in straight news stories is becoming more blurred every day. Some stories that I believe reflect reporter bias would have been clearly labeled "analysis" when I was in the business more than a decade ago. Now they masquerade as straight news.

Any story that draws conclusions about the significance of the information is suspect. Absorb the facts, and then draw your own conclusions.

It might not be a bad idea for news consumers to approach information with the same skepticism that reporters are trained to apply when they gather it. Many reporters cut their journalistic teeth on this admonition from editors: "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

[FaceKhan]

That is certainly a fair question. Well there are a lot of people on this board who were in straight, SAFE, Elan or Hyde  for a long time and have been out for long enough to talk about it. At least a few people from Straight said that it took as long as 20 years before they remembered what really happened.

Well there is certainly gonna be a great demand for low rate nursing homes for the parents of these kids.

For those parents that pulled their kids out and got them help, there is at least the possibility of forgiveness. For those parents who kept their kids locked up and then banished them when they said the program abused them, there will be nothing but an empty house.

My friend who spent 2 months at Alldredge is living in Colorado and probably never planning on seeing his parents again.
 


"I never spank my kids. I find that waving the gun around does the same thing."-Dennis Leary.