Teen Help Programs

[Anonymous]

WWASP PARENTS = DENIAL

For your kids sake, WAKE UP.

[Anonymous]

I'd pay attention a graduate of any WWASP school.  A Real graduate, not just someone who posts here pretending to be a graduate.  I personally KNOW many graduates - most have been home for several years and all are alive, healthy and making great choices in their lives.  Not for their parents, but because they actually WANT to.  Can't say that for many adults I know!  You and others are speaking from very little or no "real" experience.  I can say my kid was never starved.  He gained weight in the first months - how do you do that if you're not eating?  For anyone that lost weight, maybe they needed to - eating disorders/food addictions. Hone in on the food thing, maybe that's all you've got.  

Does any parent want to send their kid away?  Maybe some, but not most.  It's the only way I could get my child back and the only way, in his words, that he found he could love himself, graduate high school and stay clean. I know that after all this time of being home he would have told me of abuse, starvation, and all the other horrors I'm reading here? I'm not stupid or blind as you and others say.  If he told me today he had been abused I would believe him. I would NOT call him a liar and throw him out of the house.  
 
Spots: What is your real experience of the schools? Ever met graduates or parents of grads? Is it because the parents see the toxicity of your relationship with your grandchild and you feel angry and willing to make up stories that other's needing help will believe? What I see is you pushing yourself further and further away from any future relationship with your grandchild by the hatred I'm perceiving for her parents.  

Each person has a right to their opinions, whether I agree or not.   Is your opinion fact-based or reading posts here and because you SO want to believe the worst that it has become your reality?

I do have real life experiences. I have yet to experience allegations of abuse that have been proven to be true in a WWASP school.  There are no guarantees of 100% safety ANYWHERE. Are WWASP schools for everyone?  Nope - Only for those who are committed to positive and lasting change.  

Morseglass: Your kid was there a couple of months?  Yes, I definitely believe what they say. LOL! You believe the newspapers, right?  

Denial?  Kool-Aid?  Give me a REAL and substantiated case of abuse and I'll listen, yes, I will listen.  I took off the rose-colored glasses a long time ago. Who's really in denial here?

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-16 20:02 ]

[Anonymous]

Its called growing up. What teen isn't "bad" in their adolescent stage. This is a natural part of childhood. So WWASP is just taking credit for the natural cycle of the human being. What is unnatural though is their programs? Spending months in an isolation box, going through brainwashing seminars, living in a prison like setting at age 12-17. The only thing WWASP is doing is screwing up our future generation for millions a year.

The one who didn't seem to grow up is Narvin Lichfield, hopefully he gets a stiff prison sentence to help him mature.

[spots]

"

On 2003-06-25 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:


Spots: What is your real experience of the schools?"
****************
Other than a HUGE amount of interviews, emails, newspapers articles, etc.?..I received 11 weekly letters (of 28 weeks in WWASP with ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED letters being written.  The child knew the majority of her emails were not reaching me, and it "pisses me off", she wrote.  An articulate and funny writer with an unusual adult perspective on the world (the quasi-Man in the Family during her mother's long single parenthood, even worried about family finances when she was 5), she wrote long letters, full of anecdotes and descriptions.  She appears unusually resistant and independent, still a Level II after nearly 8 months.

"Ever met graduates or parents of grads?"  
************************
Yes, probably 6 grads (lots more pull-outs!)  Even the self-proclaimed successful kids seem subdued and sad or non-analytical parrots, speaking WWASP-ese.  Most say they have been out for XXX months (like 14), seldom using the vague time frames we usually use (year and a half).  When I asked Tim Weiner about the graduates he interviewed, he responded that, yes, several seemed satisfied, but that an usually high number looked forward to a career in the military (that didn't make it into the newspaper article, did it). Noble career, but few entertain visions of being high-tech entrepeneurs or innovative retailers or manufacturers.  These kids don't seem to want to take chances.

"Is it because the parents see the toxicity of your relationship with your grandchild and you feel angry and willing to make up stories that other's needing help will believe?"

***************
Uh, excuse me?  #1, we love her greatly, and the feeling is mutual. What in God's name made you think our relationship with this kid is toxic? #2, I have not "made up" any story, ever, the fact being that I am as careful as a reporter fearing a libel suit.  #3, we had this child with us for a lot of last summer, and we had her and her sister for 2 weeks just days before she was sent away.  This kid was just 14 and needed better parenting, not punishment by strange self-proclaimed "fixers".  If I told you I worked for HP (which I did, long ago, but in Sales) and that I would promise to fix your laptop with a warranty for additional work if I screwed up, would you send it to me just because you can't find a competent tech repair person in your town?  Probably not.  How about if I sent you the names of all my clients (uh, family and neighbors) with their 93% satisfaction rate (both of the laptops I got working because the problem was the owners forgot the Caps Lock was on)?  Then would you send it to me?  Probably not.  How about if I charged you $100 an hour?  Must be OK, to be able to charge so much?

"What I see is you pushing yourself further and further away from any future relationship with your grandchild by the hatred I'm perceiving for her parents."

******************
'Ya know, I worry about that sometimes, about how long it will take her to "revert" back to the terrific loving smart sassy young lady she was, and how we will deal with it if she initially hates us for trying to thwart the "lifesaving" program that took her out of a normal world. It will be harder the longer she remains in the program, but I am certain her inate goodness will surface.  The risk is us losing her for some time (big risk, as we are older than most parents here) weighed against the gain of giving her the whole life with a normal maturation process she should experience, just like any other kid.  
**************  


"Each person has a right to their opinions, whether I agree or not.   Is your opinion fact-based or reading posts here and because you SO want to believe the worst that it has become your reality?"
*****************

My opinion is fact-based because I believe what was written to me.  A lot of it is simply anecdotal; she doesn't even realize some of the techniques being used on her and therefore doesn't complain...only tells the story.  And why, may I ask, would you think I "SO want to believe the worst that it has become your reality?"  I have absolutely nothing to gain by being negative about WWASP...except to accelerate it's inevitable downfall.  I'm not paying for it, and I don't have any guilt about using it.  I just want to see behavior modification become intensely scrutinized by authority/government/society...and I want this particular onnerous example to disappear before more American children suffer.  

I would like to see abuse addressed more on the psychological level; making things that Child Protective Services would pounce on in the suburbs become equally illegal in a BM setting.  However, physical abuse is easier to spot and prove...so let's work on that.  There seems to be a large body of evidence, just so fantastic that  the public finds it unbelievable.

Really, we're only talking here about 2500 or so families, out of the entire planet, who think this is a Good Thing. Should I care more about these children than I do about 2500 people in Bangledesh who drown when a ferry capsizes?  Well, besides being personally affected, this is a thing *I* can do something about. I will not walk away or be intimidated by name-callers.

[spots]

Reporters' personal bias exists.  Use your own judgement and common sense.  Analyze the piece and decide (that is, if you are not a product of the WWASP Believe Only What I Say school.

BTW, this link appeared to be a news piece, as posted to the forum.  In reality, it is a submission from a free-lance writer to the local Scottsdale, AZ newspaper.  It is basically a Letter to the Editor.  The accompanying photo and bio would "suggest" a retiree in a conservative community, giving a personal opinion...with absolutely no need for presenting a balanced story...sort of the quintessential single-mindedness the forum poster objects to.

[MORSEGLASS]

ANON, YOU MIGHT THINK YOUR CHILD IS A LIAR, I KNOW MINE IS NOT WHEN IT COMES TO THE WELL BEING OF ANOTHER PERSON, AND AS I SAID BEFORE, OTHER KIDS SAID THE EXACT STORIES ABOUT THE SAME CHILDREN AS MY CHILD, SINCE THEY CANT TALK HOW DO THEY COME UP WITH THE SAME STORIES?, ALSO YES I BELEIVED THE NEWSPAPER, MY DAUGHTER AND I BOTH SPOKE TO THEM, THEY SAID IT JUST LIKE IT WAS TOLD, EXCEPT THEY LEFT TO MUCH OUT!

[Anonymous]

Spots wrote: My opinion is fact-based because I believe what was written to me.

You said exactly what I've been saying.  If it's written by a defiant teen, it must be true.  Why were your letter writing priviledges stopped?

Again, is ANYTHING is written or said by a defiant teen, really credible?

Don't you know that when the kids first get there, and usually some months that follow, the letters contain the same things.  I know this is just heresay, but my son said they would talk to each other about what they could write that would bring them home.  ABUSE was the number one way - starving was second.  

Do you know why some kids say they are starving and believe it.  THEY really think they ARE! They didn't eat healthy before they went and when they start to clean out their minds and bodies with exercise, fresh air and NO DRUGS or junk food, they want to eat nonstop!  Rice and beans?  Funny - don't know where those kids went to school, but it wasn't a WWASP school!  

You met grads that seemed robotic?  ALL the ones I know have a passion for life and wonderful senses of humor.  They're still teenagers...and most don't even KNOW what career they want.  A few do, and all are just normal teenagers now and they will find out just what their career future holds in college or in the process of growing in life. I commend anyone that serves in the military.  I only know one grad that went to the military, most are going to school.  You make it sound like they're possessed or have no minds of their own.  On the contrary, dear posters.

After what Tim Weiner wrote, I believe you believe what he says.  That's okay, it's just not my belief.  Tim should really get his feet wet and go to a seminar or two.  If it's good enough for Dr. Phil to do a whole series of shows about similar seminars on Oprah a year ago, then anyone that watched Oprah could see it wasn't brainwashing, robotic, take our souls away voodoo.  

I'm not here to change your minds - just to voice my opinions based on fact, not fiction.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-06-25 16:14:00, MORSEGLASS wrote:

"ANON, YOU MIGHT THINK YOUR CHILD IS A LIAR, I KNOW MINE IS NOT WHEN IT COMES TO THE WELL BEING OF ANOTHER PERSON, AND AS I SAID BEFORE, OTHER KIDS SAID THE EXACT STORIES ABOUT THE SAME CHILDREN AS MY CHILD, SINCE THEY CANT TALK HOW DO THEY COME UP WITH THE SAME STORIES?, ALSO YES I BELEIVED THE NEWSPAPER, MY DAUGHTER AND I BOTH SPOKE TO THEM, THEY SAID IT JUST LIKE IT WAS TOLD, EXCEPT THEY LEFT TO MUCH OUT!  "

What do you mean they can't talk.  They talk - and they talk a lot.  Of course you believed the newspapers.  You talked with them.  They only left out the truth, that's just a little thing.  They printed your daughter's truth, which isn't believable to me, coming from a defiant teen that was admitted to Dundee Ranch for what??  You love her, you want to believe her, that's not bad or unusual. A lot of parents make excuses for their child, I used to be one of them.

[spots]

Well...after 3 drafts, I have been advised to drop it, because I'm arguing with an idiot (who basically hates her child).

Go to a seminar and expound; it will make you feel better.  Find your own forum, and keep paying the money.  

BTW, Anon, who are you?  and is your child still in WWASP (duh, of course).

[Carey]

Anon,
If you want to beleive "uncle Buck" the used car salesman over your own child, what can any of us say or do to make you change your mind?  Nothing.  If your child is out and doing great, why are you hanging around on this message board?  Could it be that you have a vested interest in WWASP? Why not move on, live happy, and let the rest of us worry about those who need our help.

You said, "Rice and beans? Funny - don't know where those kids went to school, but it wasn't a WWASP school!"  Dundee has on the bottom of the monthly menu that can be found on their web site  "kids on worksheets or in OP eat beans and rice."  So if a child is there, in OP and/or on worksheets they are eating only beans and rice.  Shows what most WWASP parents  like you Anon really know about the program in which you are so proud of...NOT MUCH.  

I believe in my children.  I always will.  I will never give up on them.  I will never stop being there for them. I did not bring them into this world just to turn them over to "uncle Buck" just because the going got a little tough.

I feel sorry for your child.

[MORSEGLASS]

ANON, NO LOWER LEVELS CAN NOT SPEAK TO OTHERS YOU ARE WRONG, THEY CANT EVEN LOOK AT OTHERS, SO YES THEY CAN NOT TALK!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

BTW- I am the parent of a grad of WWASP.  Two years now.  Sorry about the rice and beans thing - if it was in the contract, then the parents knew about it - would be better than the chips and soda my son ate before he left (and no I couldn't FORCE him to eat healthy!)   I came upon this site several weeks ago when a friend who was admitting her child made me aware of it.  She has since admitted her child to Cross Creek.  She was intelligent enough to speak to real humans, and not believe the media and the WWW!

Carey - what IS your story - you didn't answer.

[MORSEGLASS]

OHH YEAH, MY DAUGHTER WAS SENT THERE BECAUSE IT WAS EDUCATIONAL. SHE WAS CUTTING SCHOOL!!!! THEY SAID MOST STUDENTS COME OUT 2 YEARS TO 1 US YEAR!!   WELL I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT SURVEY, MOST KIDS I KNOW WERE LUCKY TO GET THEIR CREDITS FROM BEFORE THEY WENT TO WWASP!

[Anonymous]

P.S. When did I say that I believed Uncle Buck?  I don't even know the man, so again, I would be believing news article accounts - that's not me, sorry.

MORESEGLASS - the rules might say they can't talk about ways to get their parents to bring them home, but they do, believe me, they find a way, they're very smart kids, as you know.