Author Topic: abstinance or moderation  (Read 3226 times)

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Offline AACameToBe

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abstinance or moderation
« on: August 03, 2012, 11:08:05 PM »
They start out here with moderation then go into making full blown terroristic threats about haranguing AA meetings. Are you people sure AA has the problem?




abstinence or moderation
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Re: abstinence or moderation

Postby smartypants » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:37 pm
I'm loving this thread. I was sober for along time in A.A :oops: when I was self medicating it was every thing from alcohol crack cocaine to heroin. i have tried moderation and its an experiment for me. when i first started drinking again id have 2 glasses of wine every couple of nights and one night got bladders because i wanted to remember what it was like being drunk (it wasn't nice) soon realized this was to much alcohol. Now i have a shandy now and again. i realy drink but when i do i enjoy it ill have 3 or 4 glasses of rum and coke or wine when I'm at a party. yea thats a lot but i enjoy it. my life is good and manageable. how ever i could never touch drugs again. pot makes me think to much now. heroin i would be bang on it again and crack i wouldn't touch ever again(besides the fact i cant afford it anymore as I'm a law abiding citizen now....LOL. Its good to see how every one is completely different as apposed to A.A where one shoe fits all.

I also must mention that the first time i drank again two glasses of wine every two nights lasted for three months. then i got really drunk. i ran back to A.A because i was scared but something in me had changed. my logical thinking thought. OK, you tried drinking that way and it didn't work, SO DRINK LESS. so I left AA and I drink a lot less now.
Be happy for no reason, like a child. If you are happy for a reason, you're in trouble, because that reason can be taken from you.


Deepak Chopra

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Re: abstinence or moderation

Post by Kelly » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:45 pm
Read this, and hell, yeah!
http://www.thecleanslate.org/can-an-add ... rate-user/

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Re: abstinence or moderation

Post by mfc66 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:28 pm
I had read those before and its good to see them again and have you posting here as well. I like the steven slate site well worth a look for those that don't know about him and massive has had him on her radio show which you can download as well. he makes a lot of sense and I'm sure he helps many people.
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com

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Re: abstinence or moderation

Post by BB Kate » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:15 am
http://www.thecleanslate.org/can-an-add ... rate-user/

I really liked where it said this - it makes a lot of sense to me:

"It is precisely when people no longer view a substance induced high as their best available option for happiness that they will then find it effortless to use substances moderately (unless they hold on to an all-or-nothing powerlessness/loss of control belief). If you find you need to manage your substance usage, constantly telling yourself ‘no’, setting and being vigilant about sticking to arbitrary limits, and this all feels like a struggle – then this probably means you still think the high is the best thing going, which means you’ll gravitate towards doing it more and more."

"All you need to do is choose, but I guarantee that the successful lasting choice to change will be born of the belief that some other course of behavior will bring more happiness than the previous behavior. For some people, they may simply realize that even with no major life changes, they would get more happiness out of their life if they stopped using so many substances – and still, some other people may end up believing that some simple changes in the way they think about things may provide a better level of happiness."

"Each person has to forge their own path, but there is a simple principle of human behavior underlying it all: people move in the direction of what they believe will bring them the most happiness."

And it summarizes the 12-Step view quite well too.

The Pickle Theory
The way that addiction counselors often answer the question of whether it’s possible to become a moderate user after a period of “addiction” is by stating “a pickle can never go back to being a cucumber.”

If you believe the disease theory, this makes sense. In the disease theory, addiction is the result of permanent changes to the brain, and behavior is driven purely by chemical and physical processes of the brain. So in a sense, in this theory, the brain has been “pickled” as it were, and can never go back to a state where moderate use is possible.

The problem is, this disease theory has never been proven. Loss of control has never been proven. Powerlessness has never been proven. But on the flip side, experiments have shown that heavy drinkers, even when unknowingly slipped alcohol in a beverage designed to disguise and hide its flavor, do not drink “uncontrollably” (see Marlatt). Moreover, as I’ve stated already (and indeed, Ad Nauseum throughout this site), most “alcoholics” resume a pattern of moderate drinking at some point (see Dawson). And perhaps most damningly, the very studies which generated the now famous brain scans of “the addicted brain” done by NIDA director Nora Volkow show that after a period of abstinence, brain function moves back towards “normal.” **

"The brain of a user begins to look like the brain of a non-user when the user decides to stop using – imagine that! Sure, permanent brain damage is possible in the case of strokes and other injuries brought on by substance use, but in general, the neural correlates of addiction are simply following behavior and choice, and likewise follow new behavior and choice – the brain is not permanently “pickled”, rather it is plastic – looking more like a pickle when someone is actively choosing to use, and looking more like a cucumber when they choose to stop."

"In short, the evidence we have points to the conclusion that moderation is possible and indeed probable."

I find the section BOLDED, above, particularly pertinent. I have seen this with my friend (mentioned elsewhere) who regularly drinks Lemon, Lime and Bitters, not even knowing it is alcohol.

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Re: abstinence or moderation

Post by massive » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:35 am
I think its a belief system and how we look at it. I am seeing by the blog's that many drink again moderately . especially those who stopped on their own will and accord very young like me and stopped for decades. But right now , this is just my theory...and as I read it looks like it's some people's who are ex steppers actual experience.

Imagine us all crashing a hipster AA meeting in West Hollywood and all of us dominating the shares with our truths as we share them here.

This is my dream. TO someday go with a group of us....at least 6-10 we all raise our hands, take cakes and dominate the shares with anti stepper talk.

It would be hilarious.

Thanks to each and everyone here who shared their truth and experience with me. Its also refreshing to just discuss this sanely.

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Re: abstinence or moderation

Post by Kelly » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:30 pm
I am fine with crashing a meeting, and have considered it, but decided against it. ? Would I go into a church and proclaim the bible was written by men, that all land is Holy, or that God is not a man, that the virgin birth is fabricated, etc? Or would I simply choose to not go? Do I trust that the people who go to AA will find their own way, and some will eventually find their way out as I have done?

What I have done, is go to an AA meeting and say I don't need God for my recovery. I got some harsh looks. I have said I am not powerless. I was sharing my journey from the heart, exploring. But to just go in and tell them they are just plain wrong, I don't think that would be useful or respectful. Or do you disagree?
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