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Offline 001010

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FDA warning on SSRIs
« Reply #240 on: June 28, 2005, 08:57:00 AM »
Tom Cruise is a brainwashed spokesman for the COS. I saw that TS interview and I think even Matt Lauer thought he was a kook.

To quote Tom, "Psychiatry does not work." And basically went on to say how he knows a better way?

Yeah, sure... Let's all just get subliminal electro-shock treatment for painful past memories or to excel in tennis or math... Sure.  :roll:
 

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« Reply #241 on: June 28, 2005, 09:09:00 AM »
"Chemical imbalance" is a gross oversimplification professionals use to explain some very complicated neurobiology to laymen.

Strictly speaking, it's accurate, and proven, for certain problems.

There are multiple studies showing that people with certain mental health problems have different amounts of certain neurotransmitters in certain areas of their brain and/or spinal cord relative to normal people.

When professionals say "chemical imbalance" to laymen what they're really referring to is the whole host of things that can biochemically happen *differently* at the synapse where a dendrite almost meets an axon, in a mentally ill person, than they would happen in a mentally healthy person.

Those differences can include anything from differences in the amounts--the balances---of the various chemicals, different rates of reuptake, and blockages at the receptor sites on the axon side of the synapse.

People who say there's not *substantial* evidence that the synapses and/or neurotransmitter balance and action between them--the whole synaptic picture--doesn't have some differences in people with certain illnesses versus in people without them---are flat wrong.

This would be like some "skeptic" saying I'm wrong about computers when I talk about little ones and zeros in the computers making all the programming, and data, and decisions.

In the sense that there are no *actual* little written-down ones and zeros, written down as digit one and digit zero, all the way down in the chips and the disks, etc., sure, they're "right."

But in the sense that talking about little ones and zeros is just a gross oversimplification for laymen who aren't really up for the gory details of circuitry at the bit level, the "skeptic" is either disingenuous, or a dupe, or a moron.

Also, "chemical imbalance" has continued to be shorthand for giving a brief description to a patient even though all sorts of *other* gory details of neurobiology are doing their thing in the brain with people who aren't normal upstairs.  There's everything from differences in blood flow to various areas, to lesions on various parts of the brain (in ADHD), to brain damage from knocks on the head or street drugs, to differences in the glial cells that form the "insulation" in the brain, to the buildup of plaques in Alzheimers patients.  And, of course, it doesn't help that genetic differences can affect things all over your whole body, and while medical science may have found some effects now, it may not have found other effects yet.

The cellular protein a particular gene codes for can frequently do a lot more than one thing.  A single changed protein can make multiple separate changes in an organism's biology.

As an example, blue-eyed white cats are deaf.  Odd-eyed white cats with only *one* blue eye can hear.  Cats with fur color but blue eyes can hear.  The protein for fur and eye pigment in cats obviously does something else, too.

Biology, neurobiology, gene biology, microbiology---it's all complicated as all hell, and doctors have to have short, oversimplified explanations for all that complicated biology that they can give a patient in five minutes or less---because a lot of times that's all the patient has the brains or time or interest for.

A patient with the brains or time or interest for more can always go back to college and take classes in neurology, psychology, genetics, and microbiology.

Cruise *says* he's read the scientific literature, but all I can say is that he's obviously another fluffhead who didn't understand what he read.

I say that not because he disagrees with me.  I've had all sorts of people disagree with me on matters from computers to criminology to psychology to chemistry.  When you know a certain amount about a highly technical subject, you can tell when someone else is a genuine expert, or a genuine educated layman, or when they're yet another idiot who may have plowed through a certain amount of literature, quack and real, but didn't actually understand what they read.

"I'm not an idiot, idiots don't read Nietzche!"

"Yes, they do.  Idiots just don't understand him."

--A Fish Called Wanda

Cruise is just another idiot.  Or, to put it more politely, a seriously misguided layman with comprehension deficits.

Not because he disagrees with me, but because what he says shows he didn't understand whatever literature he claims to have read.

I've been disagreed with by the best of them.  That doesn't include Cruise.

Timoclea
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Offline Paul

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FDA warning on SSRIs
« Reply #242 on: June 28, 2005, 11:41:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-28 06:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

""Chemical imbalance" is a gross oversimplification professionals use to explain some very complicated neurobiology to laymen.



Strictly speaking, it's accurate, and proven, for certain problems.

"


Timoclea,

I don't have the ability to comprehend the neurobiology adequately, nor do I write
that well.

As I said before, I am just an advocate who
refers people to the best resources that I
know.

I am going to save this post for just such
a referral, or rather reference.

Thanks,

Paul
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« Reply #243 on: June 28, 2005, 11:59:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-28 05:57:00, 001010 wrote:



To quote Tom, "Psychiatry does not work." And basically went on to say how he knows a better way?



"


I am surprised at how few people get that it is not his belief in Scientology that is making him look like a fool, but his invalidating others experiences.

I guess it would be safe to say that the COS attracts the same type of people as its founder. Therefore nothing will change, they will just be an annoyance and a creepy, semi-clandestine influence on things we may or may not realize.

That is why, yes Deborah - you, it is important to be courteous and post the scientology connection to your referneces.

If they didn't intentionally create front groups and have followers who do not admit to being Scientologists then making the connection for your readers would not be necessary!
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #244 on: June 28, 2005, 12:22:00 PM »
Note: I am posting this whole testimonial, all 2,749 words, because after noting that since at least 2003 Deborah and Ginger have been relentless in their posts against psychiatry, I feel the need for some balance. IMHO it appears that Ginger and Deborah have been a defacto one, two punch on this issue. This is a 2004 testimony but it hits on all current topics ...

If you don't like this kind of input to balance the bias trends on Fornit's then I imagine this post will be called a flood, if you like to hear both sides of an issue, and would like to hear more from the current mental health system in the US today then you will probably call this information.

After seeing the voluminous posts that certainly would qualify as flooding as explained to me by Ginger allowed over the years on Fornit's I am not going to apologize for this post.

---

LINK

Statement of Margaret Stout on Behalf of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill Before the U.S. House of Representatives, Committee on Appropriations, Subcommittee on Labor-HHS-Education and Related Agencies
April 28, 2004

Chairman Regula, Representative Obey and members of the Subcommittee, I am Margaret Stout of Johnston, Iowa. I current serve as President of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) and Executive Director of NAMI?s statewide Iowa affiliate. I am pleased to offer NAMI?s view on the Subcommittee?s FY 2005 bill.

NAMI is the nation?s largest grassroots advocacy organization, 220,000 members representing persons with serious brain disorders and their families. Through our 1,200 chapters and affiliates in all 50 states, we support education, outreach, advocacy and research on behalf of persons with serious brain disorders such as schizophrenia, manic depressive illness, major depression, severe anxiety disorders and major mental illnesses affecting children.

Mr. Chairman, for too long severe mental illness has been shrouded in stigma and discrimination. These illnesses have been misunderstood, feared, hidden, and often ignored by science. Only in the last decade have we seen the first real hope for people with these brain disorders through pioneering research that has uncovered both a biological basis for these brain disorders and treatments that work.

The cost of mental illness to our nation is enormous. President Bush?s White House Mental Health Commission ? which completed its work in 2003 ? found that the direct treatment cost exceeds $71 billion annually. This does not include the $79 billion in estimated indirect costs of benefits and social services (including 35% of SSI benefits and 28% of SSDI benefits). These direct and indirect costs do not measure the substantial and growing burden that is imposed on "default" systems that are too often responsible for serving children and adults with mental illness who lack access to treatment. These costs fall most heavily on the criminal justice and corrections systems, emergency rooms, schools, families and homeless shelters. Moreover, these costs are not only financial, but also human in terms of lost productivity, lives lost to suicide and broken families. Investment in mental illness research and services are ? in NAMI?s view ? the highest priority for our nation and this Subcommittee.

Funding for Services Programs at SAMHSA & CMHS The Center for Mental Health Services (CMHS) ? part of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) ? is the principal federal agency engaged in support for state and local public mental health systems. Through its programs CMHS provides flexible funding for the states and conducts service demonstrations to help states move toward adoption of evidence-based practices. Funding for all SAMHSA and CMHS programs is part of the FY 2005 Labor-HHS-Education Appropriations bill that Congress will soon consider.
CMHS Programs and the Crisis Confronting the Public Mental Health System

During the recent economic downturn and resulting crisis the state budgets are facing, we are witnessing widening of gaps in the public mental illness treatment system in many states. This is resulting in unprecedented cuts being enacted by states in both direct spending on mental illness treatment and supportive services, and in Medicaid funding of such services. Deep cuts to front-line clinics and providers in the public mental health system, curbs on access to newer more effective medications and closure of acute care beds in the community are just a few of the misguided strategies that states are employing to close their widening budget gaps. The consequences of these emerging cracks in the service system are readily apparent, not just to NAMI?s consumer and family membership, but also to the public: increased risk of suicide, the growing number of chronic homeless adults and the growing trend of "criminalization" of mental illness and the stress it is placing on state and local jails and prisons.
The Need to Focus on Recovery-Oriented Evidence-Based Practices

As states continue to cut funding for mental illness treatment and supportive services, CMHS programs are becoming an increasingly important source of funding for the states. First and foremost, states should be encouraged to use their CMHS Block Grant funds to prevent further cuts in services for children and adults with severe mental illnesses. NAMI also supports targeting of CMHS dollars toward investment in evidence-based, outreach-oriented service delivery models for persons with severe mental illness in the community. The need to focus limited resources on evidence-based models (such as Programs of Assertive Community Treatment (PACT) and integrated treatment for co-occurring disorders) was recommended in 2003 by the President?s "New Freedom Initiative "Mental Health Commission Report. This landmark report called for a reform of the public mental health system to eliminate system fragmentation and better reflect the priorities of recovery and community integration.
NAMI Supports the Bush Administration?s Request for a "Mental Health System Transformation" Initiative

The President?s FY 2005 budget includes a request for $44 million at CMHS for a new state incentive grant program for "Mental Health System Transformation." This initiative is intended to help states follow through on the July 2003 recommendations in the White House "New Freedom Initiative" Mental Health Commission report. Under the proposal, funds would be allocated to states on a competitive basis to support the development of comprehensive state mental health plans to reduce system fragmentation and increase access to evidence-based services that promote recovery from mental illnesses. States would be required to use funds to develop plans that cut across multiple systems such as housing, criminal justice, child welfare, employment and education. In subsequent years, up to 85% of funds could be used to support community-based programs, with the remaining 15% available for state planning and coordination. NAMI strongly supports this proposal as critical to the effort to reform our nation?s fragmented and underfunded public mental health system and bridge the gap between scientific advances and practice.
NAMI Supports the "Samaritan" and "ELHSI" Initiatives to End Chronic Homelessness

The President?s FY 2005 budget proposes $70 million to continue the "Samaritan Initiative" to end chronic homelessness over the next decade, with funding spread across SAMHSA, HUD and the VA. In addition, the Bush Administration is seeking a $5 million increase for the Projects for Assistance in Transition from Homelessness (PATH) program ? boosting FY 2005 funding to $55 million. PATH is a formula grant program to the states that funds outreach and engagement services for homeless individuals with severe mental illnesses. CMHS estimates that this increase in the PATH program will result in 154,000 homeless individuals with severe mental illnesses being served by state and local PATH grantees. NAMI also urges additional funding in FY 2005 for the PATH program to address inequities in the program?s interstate funding formula that have the allocation for many smaller rural states frozen since the mid-1990s.

NAMI urges full funding of the "Samaritan Initiative" in FY 2005 and the proposed increase for PATH. Individuals with severe mental illnesses and co-occurring substance abuse disorders make up the largest share of the more than 150,000 people who experience chronic homelessness ? those who stay homeless for a year or more. In addition to supporting the Administration?s Samaritan Initiative and the recommended increases for PATH, NAMI also supports funding for the Ending Long-Term Homeless Services Initiative (ELHSI) program at SAMHSA to assist states and localities in funding services for new permanent supportive housing being developed through HUD?s McKinney-Vento program. Funding at SAMHSA for Samaritan and ELHSI is critical to producing and sustaining 150,000 units of permanent supportive housing that will all but eliminate chronic homelessness. Ending chronic homelessness through permanent supportive housing will pay for itself, as communities save hundreds of millions of dollars in that communities are relieved of the costs related to keeping people homeless ? including those associated with shelters, emergency rooms and jails.
Funding for CMHS Programs in the President?s FY 2005 Budget

In addition to the initiatives noted above, NAMI also supports ongoing activities at CMHS.

    * Mental Health Block Grant ? CMHS?s largest program, the Mental Health Block Grant (state formula grant program), would receive a $2 million increase under the President?s FY 2005 budget proposal (boosting funding to $436 million).
    * Children?s Mental Health program at CMHS ? The President is requesting a $4 million increase for the Children?s Mental Health program, increasing funding to $106 million.
    * Programs of Regional and National Significance ? CMHS?s own discretionary budget ? known as Programs of Regional and National Significance (PRNS) ? would increase under the President?s budget to $271 million. This includes the $44 million mental health system transformation initiative noted above.
    * Co-Occurring Disorders ? The request for FY 2005 for the PRNS program includes $15.2 million in ongoing and new funding for best practices and targeted capacity expansion grants to foster increased access to integrated treatment for individuals with co-occurring mental illness and substance abuse disorders. SAMHSA has an important leadership role to play on this issue. NAMI strongly urges this Subcommittee to support expansion of SAMHSA?s activities on this critical priority.
    * Jail Diversion ? NAMI is disappointed that the President?s budget does not request continued funding for the $7 million Jail Diversion program at CMHS. NAMI strongly supports the Jail Diversion program and urges continuation of funding in FY 2005.
    * Suicide Prevention ? NAMI strongly supports continuation and expansion of CMHS?s best practices grants and contracts to support suicide prevention. The President?s "New Freedom Initiative" Mental Health Commission report contains important recommendations on making suicide prevention a national priority. NAMI supports these recommendations as critical to addressing the estimated 30,000 suicides that occur every year in our country ? 90% of which involve a victim with a mental disorder.

National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) Research Funding

The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) is the only federal agency with the main objective of funding biomedical research into serious mental illnesses. Increased funding and focus is needed to achieve the promise of exciting gains in understanding the brain in upcoming years.
NIMH ? Smallest Proposed Increase in 8 Years

For FY 2005, the President is proposing a $1.421 billion budget for the NIMH. This is a $39 million increase?2.2 percent?over the amount Congress appropriated for NIMH for FY 2004 ($1.39 billion). While this exceeds the average 0.5% increase for all domestic discretionary spending, it is below the 2.7% increase proposed for all of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) ? which would increase to $28.805 billion under the President?s budget. In addition, this proposed increase for NIMH for FY 2005 is below the 3.6% increase that Congress enacted for FY 2004 and far below the 8% and 9% annual increases that were achieved between FY 1998 and 2003.

This minimal budget increase is expected to have a serious impact on the ability of NIMH to sustain ongoing multi-year research grants that have been initiated over the past 3-4 years and fund new grant proposals relevant to serious mental illness. This is especially the case if Congress accepts a proposal being floated by NIH to limit annual "cost of doing research" adjustments to individual grants to 1% per year. NAMI remains very concerned that this coming fall-off in budget increases for NIH does not wipe out the new research that has been undertaken at NIMH in recent years, and take advantage of the significant opportunities to advance treatments and cures for serious mental disorders.

Mr. Chairman, NAMI is deeply grateful for your leadership on this Subcommittee in seeking a strong budget for NIH and NIMH. The bipartisan commitment to scientific research that this Subcommittee continues to demonstrate is an example to your colleagues in Congress and in the Administration. NAMI urges you and your colleagues to make every effort to fund in NIMH at the "professional judgment" recommendation for FY 2005 -- $1.555 billion, or $172.8 million above the FY 2004 level.
"Roadmap to Recovery and Cure" ? NAMI?s Advocacy Goals and Strategies on Mental Illness Research

In March, the NAMI Policy Research Institute released a new report, Roadmap to Recovery and Cure, urging significant increases in the NIMH budget for basic, clinical and health services research focused on serious mental illness. The reality is that dramatic improvements in the lives of individuals with mental illness can be achieved over the next decade if research is expanded and the treatment system reformed and brought into closer alignment with research.

Among the conclusions in Roadmap to Recovery and Cure are that serious mental illness research has been underfunded, compared to other chronic, disabling illnesses, and is insufficiently prioritized at NIMH. The task force also found that psychiatric research has only begun to enter the modern era of biomedical research and requires the development of a strong base of basic and interdisciplinary research, large, policy-relevant clinical trials and services research directly tied to service delivery. It is important to note that all of these are integral to the Bush Administration?s Roadmap to Medical Research initiative that is currently driving research priorities at NIH.

Among the recommendations in this report are:

    * Significant and accountable increases in NIMH funding of basic, clinical and services research focused on serious mental illness--$1 billion over 5 years,
    * Increased application of the NIH?s Roadmap to Medical Research initiative to serious mental illness,
    * Continuation and expansion of clinical trials focused on serious mental illness,
    * Coordination of serious mental illness research, dissemination, and service system policy efforts by the federal government, and
    * Increased training and support of researchers and mental health care providers.

The Case for Increased Federal Investment in Mental Illness Research

    * Further research is imperative if we are to prevent the next generation from suffering. Much has to be learned. The causes and mechanisms of diseases such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are mostly unknown. We do not yet have laboratory tests that can diagnose these illnesses. There are no side-effect free treatments. And, of course, there is no primary preventive measure or cure currently available.
    * Treatment is imperfect; it does not work well for all individuals living with these brain diseases. There are no cures for severe mental illnesses, and existing treatments and services shown to be effective are all too often not available to the people who need and deserve them. While steady research-funding gains have been achieved, NAMI believes that severe mental illness research, from the most basic to services research, remains underfunded, given the tremendous scientific opportunities that exist and the severe burden that these diseases present to the public as well as to our families.
    * The public health burden associated with severe mental illness is enormous, accounting for a large percentage of costs imposed by all illnesses in the United States. An independent study by the World Bank and World Health Organization (DALY: Disability Adjusted Life Years) found that four of the top ten causes of disability worldwide are severe mental illnesses: major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder, accounting for 25 percent of the total disability resulting from all diseases and injuries.

Where Should Funding at NIMH Be Directed?

    * Greater Focus & Accountability on Severe Mental Illness ? NAMI believes that more focus is needed at NIMH on severe mental illness research. NAMI therefore urges Congress to require NIMH to provide an accounting of new and existing research grants broken down by specific illnesses.
    * Basic Neuroscience ? NIMH needs to continue progress that has been made in unraveling the mysteries of molecules, genes, and brain interconnections related to higher brain functioning in brain health and serious disease.
    * Treatment Research ? Currently there is a lack of understanding about which treatments work best for which patients, in what combination, and with what risks and costs. NIMH has invested in significant research to improve this understanding and it should be continued and expanded in the current budget. Importantly, new treatments must be developed as well.
    * Services Implementation ? There are many important, even crucial research questions relevant to the treatment system that serves individuals with severe mental illnesses?ranging from improving the provision of evidence-based care to identifying exactly how much public monies are being spent on a treatment system that more often than not is failing.
    * Consumer and Family Involvement in Research ? All of these efforts at NIMH must be done with a greater involvement with and accountability to those patients with severe illnesses and their families. Recent efforts at NIMH have moved in this direction, but more needs to be done to integrate families and patients into annual reporting and strategic planning on research investments and accomplishments.

Conclusion

Chairman Regula, Representative Obey and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to offer NAMI?s views on your FY 2005 bill.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #245 on: June 28, 2005, 12:46:00 PM »
Excellent points, Timoclea. I though about that when I read, "chemical imbalance" also. In addition, I've been told I had a chemical imbalance and chosen to stop taking psyche meds after years of trying enough to know none of them worked for me (especially SSRIs) with the exception of Strattera (new ADHD med) which helps without the amphetamine blast to the body and brain. That's one I've never tried.

* I do on rare occasion use a benzodiazepine for anxiety and panic disorder. But that's roughly less than 15 1 mg tablets every 2 months or so.

In all honesty, it's been the cognitive behavioral therapy for the past 7 years that I think so much of, and that has helped me the most. Definitely more than any drug offered up my way.  

However, my very first psychiatrist visit was in the 2nd grade. I was misdiagnosed for years due to the fact that my parents were abusing me and no one ever found out about it. I spent my life after school as a young child in psychiatrist?s offices and special learning centers with gooey-sweet counselors in my business everyday. I hated every minute of it, but the problem had to be me! I mean, what could an upstanding doctor and member of the Jewish community and his perfect, lovely wife have ever done to make me (their kid) act out and perform poorly in school, along with have behavioral and attention problems?  I hated my parents but no one ever made the connection.  I was just lucky after all these years to find a shrink that I didn?t automatically discredit simply for being one. Before I just looked at them as legal drug pushers until I met my doc.  Psychiatry works well, but you have to find a good one ? at least I did. Everyone is different.

Paul, I agree about the discrediting other people's recoveries to a certain extent but doesn't everyone do that in some way or another? People believe what they want to believe to survive. If a person?s reality is okay with them, and not hurting anyone or themselves, what's the harm?

The problem with Cruise is the fact that he's a spokesman for a very dangerous cult, and not so much not giving credit, but giving it to Scientology in the process.


 

G:   "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB:  "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4



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Offline Paul

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« Reply #246 on: June 28, 2005, 01:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-28 09:46:00, 001010 wrote:





Paul, I agree about the discrediting other people's recoveries to a certain extent but doesn't everyone do that in some way or another? People believe what they want to believe to survive. If a person?s reality is okay with them, and not hurting anyone or themselves, what's the harm?




Great question.

From my personal experience, and in helping others, when someone is unstable and seeking help giving the best resources to any type of treatment or philosphy helps.

Having that person exposed to self professed industry haters like Deborah, and possible Ginger is dangerous. Not because they are either right or wrong. Because their posts are to discredit a methodology of treatment that may work for that person, thus creating a biased environment that will influence that person not to consider a certain method.

My roomate is a great example. He did fine with psychiatry. Then was convinced by the anti-psychiatry people to get off medications and psychiatry was evil. So he did, destabilized, got arrested, did time, got back on his original medication and therapy protocol that was working just fine ... until he was influenced otherwise.

Now he is doing wonderful, working, dating, living  a full life. That would sound ok to most people right?

Wrong. When I was at a conference in LA recently I had a discussion with a leading patient advocate in the state. I was asking about two current people I was trying to help. I was shocked at her responses. Right out of the COS dogma, I have learned since being on Fornit's.

She told me to tell my roomate to get off his medications, they where bad for him, and that his recovery method was completely wrong ... on and on she went slamming my roomate who she never met and discredited his life and his treatment choice.

That is bad.

That is why if the COS has a method of treatment then please be up front. Offer it as a choice like any other choice and then there is no controversy.

But nope, the industry haters will make up all the reasons in the world why they are so self important that they must hate the industry, while claiming not to influence people individually, and then claim they are for choice, and against forced treatment when they are practicing forcing their opinions on people in such a way as to enact forced treatment by their chosen method.

It is sad, hurtful and ironically the main reason why their treatment protocols will not become popular. Not becuase of the COS methodology but by their creepy way of approaching it.

I guess the vote on Tom Cruise is 69% against his actions on the Today show. Remember he has been a Scientologist for as long as I can remember. Very popular and no big deal on his COS beliefs. Now it makes a difference in the way he devalued psychiatry and invalidated Brooke Shield's choice of treatment ... that is why people think he is a kook, not because he is a Scientologist.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #247 on: June 28, 2005, 01:27:00 PM »
Anyway you dish him up, he's a kook.  :silly:

The fact that he's promoting the COS in the process just makes it worse.

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

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« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
Not everybody who's ever experienced depression, despondency, anxiety, boredome or restlessness is disordered and in need of treatment. In fact, I think that if you're not pissed off then you haven't been paying attention.

There's a very real danger in allowing political agencies and organizations to define the difference between dysfunction in an individual and external causes of unhappiness.

I don't have a problem w/ people using amphetamines if they know what they're taking and they think it helps them. I do have a problem w/ giving our dysfunctional school system even more power to drug down or tag as insane any child who is not happy in that system.

Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #249 on: June 28, 2005, 02:19:00 PM »
I agree Ginger, there's no one way. People find many different things that help or heal them. Everyone is different.

I'm just waiting to see if that's actually what's about to happen. It seems awfully Orwellian and extreme. I'll be pulling my kid out of the public school system just like a lot of other people will be if that goes through. I just don?t think it will.

If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
--Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet



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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2005, 02:23:00 PM »
//I don't have a problem w/ people using amphetamines if they know what they're taking and they think it helps them. I do have a problem w/ giving our dysfunctional school system even more power to drug down or tag as insane any child who is not happy in that system. //

Couldn't agree more.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #251 on: June 28, 2005, 02:31:00 PM »
However, who's to say that it couldn't help if it were offered and not mandated? I for one am not too concerned because I don't think my kid has any disorders that I need to worry about. If a screen option came up, I'd decline unless I truly thought it served as an opportunity for my daughter?s mental health. I should have that right as a parent. It needs to be a choice like any other help. Free will is the only way for it to work. You have to choose it. Now, if we're talking about a kid with severe bipolar or schizophrenia, it might be a blessing to those parents and child. But parents should have the final say.

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #252 on: June 28, 2005, 02:33:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-28 11:23:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"//I don't have a problem w/ people using amphetamines if they know what they're taking and they think it helps them. I do have a problem w/ giving our dysfunctional school system even more power to drug down or tag as insane any child who is not happy in that system. //



Couldn't agree more.



 "


Here here!

Dextroamphetamine got me out of a severe depression more than once as an adult!  :nworthy:

The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.


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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #253 on: June 28, 2005, 04:02:00 PM »
The legislation just passed without the Paul amendment, which would have made parental consent a requirement. So, as I understand it, the new policy allows the public school system to screen all students for mental illness (by what definition?) w/o even asking their parents' permission.

It's a done deal now. If you don't want your kid to be screened by some anonymous stranger presenting themselves as psyche pros, you have to go out of your way to explicitly deny permission. And, knowing the ps system as I do, I'd say it's probably wise to fill your kids in on what mental health screening is and make sure they understand you don't want them to participate and that, despite what anyone might say or imply, you won't be mad at them if they refuse.

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #254 on: June 28, 2005, 04:21:00 PM »
The truth about the New Freedom commission agenda is that they really do want to screen everybody, and the misrepresentation is that people will be given informed consent.

Two disturbing tactics have been used to gain consent for school mental health screenings.

The first, is "passive consent", which involves having the parent return a form if they do not want their child screened. What happens if the consent form never makes it out of the backpack and into the parent's hands?

Well, according to TeenScreen's statistic, this results in an 86% consent rate as opposed to a 57% consent rate if the parents actually have a  choice.

The other disturbing tactic is the direct marketing of these screenings to the children.  

Another disturbing statistic from teenscreen is that 98% of kids will assent to the screening.  

And of course, after you've sold the  kids,
it is just a matter of letting them sell it to the parents.

Unfortunately, that tactic is not a theory. It is being used.
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