Author Topic: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?  (Read 46380 times)

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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #420 on: October 30, 2010, 12:59:06 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Whooter, you think you are clever but deliberate stupidity is not cleverness.  You are obviously some kind of program shill, a child could see that from your posts.  Either you are financially dependent on this industry and have taken it upon yourself to run damage control here, or you have simply been hired by elements of this industry.  I am glad the moderators have not banned you because your posts are possibly more powerful proof of the prevailing attitudes at these programs than any of our stories.  You obviously have no compassion for these kids, and no respect for what they went through.  Gonzotherapy got your number after one day, summed you up beautifully.  So keep it up, your tactics speak for themselves.

Shady, you cant see beyond your own nose on this subject.  I am not the one disrespecting survivors and having a lack of compassion for them, you are and those like you. There are kids who went to programs who were seriously abused and some of them died at the hands of program staff who are still working in the industry as we speak.

Abused to the point of death, sounds like torture to me.  What kind of place does that to people?

  How are these kids (and those like them) going to be able to find people to listen to them and find their story credible when we have people like yourself running around claiming to have been kidnapped and carried off to Gulags and tortured.  Its not only disrespectful to those who were actually abused in these places but it is disrespectful to kids who were kidnapped, held for Ransom and/or killed.  Have some guts tell the readers you were taken by "Oneway escort service" and were forced to do such and such at xyz Program".  Be honest!

First and most important rule, Whooter.  By the way, what do you do for a living again?

If I was shot in a hunting accident I could tell everyone that I was so scared that it felt like someone was trying to kill me.  But it would be a lie to tell everyone that I was attacked by terrorists.

That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard.  Were you hunting with AK 47's?  Semtex?  Sarin gas?  These programs and the methods they use bear a very strong resemblance to the notorious communist thought reform facilities of the recent past.

The kids who were taken by escort may have been frightened, it may have felt like kidnapping to them and it is a service that I don’t think I would use partly because of this.  But the child would have full knowledge that they were not being taken by kidnappers after a very short period of time so why would they lie about it?

Again, they are not lying.  They have been abducted by strangers, who have taken them to a strange place and they have no idea what will happen to them.  They have nobody they can trust at this point, they are isolated by their abductors.  Your semantics just serve to reveal your true disposition and your true agenda.

Why do you accept this disrespect towards other survivors, Shady?  You water down and desensitize the whole experience with this vocabulary to the point that you cannot distinguish between those people who were abused and those who just had a rough time.

Please define "had a rough time"

I am not the enemy here, shady, you are.  I am just pointing it out to you.  You can continue to say you were kidnapped and dragged to a gulag where you were tortured and brainwashed.

I can and will, because that's what happened, with the exception of kidnapping.  My mom just lied to me to get me there, as the program had suggested.  There may not have been any "Transport Agencies" in Florida in 1985, in any case I had NO IDEA that my mother had even considered this, so lying to me was practical, and cheaper.

 But I don’t think it is fair to other survivors to embellish, lie or make up stories.

Again, please provide an example of lying, embellishment or made up stories ( actual examples, not your usual ridiculous semantic nonsense ).


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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #421 on: October 30, 2010, 02:38:12 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Gonzo you did lie about me a couple of times in this thread.  When you posted the lawsuit I stated I did not see any reference to kidnapping and you stated that I called them liars.

Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
And I love the fact that you dismiss the hundreds of people in that lawsuit as being liars.
Link

Then another time you were frustrated with our conversation you tried to make the readers believe that I was being paid by the industry to post here, thereby discrediting my opinions.  You have been here for about a day and know nothing about me yet you make up lies about me?

Quote

They wouldn't try to discredit the accusers by hiring somebody to sit and babysit forums twisting words and making incredibly broad unfounded allegations of lies. I think I should call them up and let them know they are over-paying you. You are a miserable failure at discrediting anything.
Link

Most of us lie at one time or another, but I am curious as to why you need to lie about me here on the forum.  If you would do this to someone you hardly know about then what are we to believe about your stories of your time in a program?  Could it be that you are equally frustrated with the programs still being open and want to hurt them too?  Discredit them? Would this lead you to lie like you did about me?




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First of all, I have read enouigh of your posts to see that you regularly accuse people who bash programs as liars, therefore by no stretch of the imagination I came to the conclusion that you would think that all plaintiffs in that lawsuit you see as liars. I think many would agree that this is a fair assumption to make and does not constitute me as being a liar.

As far as me saying you are a Nazi supporter who doesn't believe ion the holocaust, I've read enough of your posts to see that you are someone who attempts to discredit people who do not share your views: Fascism a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2:  tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

I didn't think I needed to clarify, by Nazi I was alluding to your fascist mentality.
 
I didn't think these needed clarification, but I forgot I was conversing with someone of diminished mental capacities.

As far as your opinions being compromised by a vested interest in the program. My opinion only, and opinions cannot be lies. Opinion:1a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

I hope this helps your limited understanding of the English language. Your opinion that I am a liar, which you attempted to pass off as fact :"We have established that program survivors lie"- (Whooter) Would really make you the liar and not me.

Keep shoveling Whooter, you are doing a fine job. (That was a lie, just so we are clear). :moon:
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #422 on: October 30, 2010, 02:47:28 PM »
Whooter I have already provided you with the definition of the word kidnap. Under your own standards it meets the definition, therefore the kids in question are neither lying nor exaggerating.

That being said you have yet to provide a single example of a survivor actually lying about his or her experiences despite your numerous accusations. Why don't you try and focus on your accusations towards Anne or I? You've claimed we've both lied about our experiences. Why not back up those claims?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #423 on: October 30, 2010, 02:52:43 PM »
Gonzo, I dont want to go off topic here about who you think I am and why I am here.  It has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is "do survivors lie?".

I provided proof that you lied twice here on the board and provided links.  You can start another link about how you think I am a Nazi if you like and I would be glad to discuss my motivations.  You should try to substantiate your claims with some proof (like I did with your lies) with links to where I proclaimed myself to be a Nazi  or some other type of evidence to support your allegations of me besides "I have read enough here on fornits to know"

So, Gonzotherapy,  we have established that you lie  (lied) and you claim to be a survivor.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #424 on: October 30, 2010, 02:58:46 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Gonzo you did lie about me a couple of times in this thread.  When you posted the lawsuit I stated I did not see any reference to kidnapping and you stated that I called them liars.


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:agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:
http://www.wturley.com/Recent-Filings/2 ... Claims.pdf

Pg 56 item 14 -- Kids taken AGAINST their will. (I.E. KIDNAPPING.)
Once again it is my opinion that you are a liar Whooter. Actually considering the mounting evidence, this may actually be a fact. :fuckoff:
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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #425 on: October 30, 2010, 03:02:47 PM »
And since the entire group of people in this forum (YOU) who are calling survivors liars, I think exposing your character is well within the topic.
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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #426 on: October 30, 2010, 03:11:36 PM »
Escort (1) : a person or group of persons accompanying another to give protection or as a courtesy (2) : the man who goes on a date with a woman
Transport: to transfer or convey from one place to another <transporting ions across a living membrane>
2: to carry away with strong and often intensely pleasant emotion
3: to send to a penal colony overseas

I'm going to have to say Transport is accurate, but does not exclude kidnapping as part of the transportation.
Kidnap: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom
To be honest "ransom" fits in well here. Parents pay 10s of thousands to get their child back.

Opinion: You suck at semantics Whootboy. :deal:
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Offline Whooter

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #427 on: October 30, 2010, 03:31:24 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Gonzo you did lie about me a couple of times in this thread.  When you posted the lawsuit I stated I did not see any reference to kidnapping and you stated that I called them liars.


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:agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:
http://www.wturley.com/Recent-Filings/2 ... Claims.pdf

Pg 56 item 14 -- Kids taken AGAINST their will. (I.E. KIDNAPPING.)
Once again it is my opinion that you are a liar Whooter. Actually considering the mounting evidence, this may actually be a fact. :fuckoff:

Nice try, you added the word kidnapping, Gonzo.  It is not referenced in the lawsuit like I pointed out to you earlier.  Hmmm.  I wonder why the lawyers didnt use the word kidnapping? If those kids were indeed kidnapped I am sure they would have pointed that out in the lawsuit.  Why is that?  Do you think that maybe the parents gave permission to the escort agency to transport the children and therefore they were not kidnapped?


The issue isnt whether or not you think I am a liar (There is already a thread dedicated to that subject that you can resurrect if you like).



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #428 on: October 30, 2010, 03:34:38 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Gonzo you did lie about me a couple of times in this thread.  When you posted the lawsuit I stated I did not see any reference to kidnapping and you stated that I called them liars.


...
:agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:  :agree:
http://www.wturley.com/Recent-Filings/2 ... Claims.pdf

Pg 56 item 14 -- Kids taken AGAINST their will. (I.E. KIDNAPPING.)
Once again it is my opinion that you are a liar Whooter. Actually considering the mounting evidence, this may actually be a fact. :fuckoff:

Nice try, you added the word kidnapping, Gonzo.  It is not referenced in the lawsuit like I pointed out to you earlier.  Hmmm.  I wonder why the lawyers didnt use the word kidnapping? If those kids were indeed kidnapped I am sure they would have pointed that out in the lawsuit.  Why is that?  Do you think that maybe the parents gave permission to the escort agency to transport the children and therefore they were not kidnapped?


The issue isnt whether or not you think I am a liar (There is already a thread dedicated to that subject that you can resurrect if you like).



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OK. You call it escort or transport. Give me a definition of either of those words that includes the words -- TAKEN AGAINST THEIR WILL.


Fact- You suck at semantics.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #429 on: October 30, 2010, 03:41:22 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
OK. You call it escort or transport. Give me a definition of either of those words that includes the words -- TAKEN AGAINST THEIR WILL.


Fact- You suck at semantics.

Yes, I may suck at semantics, but you struggle with telling the truth and I have links to back me up.  So we have come full circle and proved you lied.

Lets give it a rest unless you want to take into the OFFA section.  I would really like to keep this thread on topic if I can.



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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #430 on: October 30, 2010, 04:20:55 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
OK. You call it escort or transport. Give me a definition of either of those words that includes the words -- TAKEN AGAINST THEIR WILL.


Fact- You suck at semantics.

Yes, I may suck at semantics, but you struggle with telling the truth and I have links to back me up.  So we have come full circle and proved you lied.

Lets give it a rest unless you want to take into the OFFA section.  I would really like to keep this thread on topic if I can.



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Since you insist on calling me a liar, and I am a survivor, this is well within topic. Since you so far are the only one accusing survivors of lying about their transports being kidnapping, this is well within topic.

Once again, I have proven that what you call "lies" by me are nothing more than attempts to discredit the facts that I have presented. You are the only admitted and proven liar here. And since you are presenting falsities as proven "lies" by survivors, it is well within topic to show evidence that you are in fact the one lying.

I have not seen one link to my posts where you have proven I am a liar, Taken against their will by force is kidnapping, the reason the lawyers do no use the term kidnapping is most likely because what Utah courts see as kidnapping may not be applied because of the different child protection laws that Utah has. Does not change the fact that being taken against your will is kidnapping. The court is not a dictionary, the court does not make definitions of words. What may legally be accepted as kidnapping does not change the definition of the word.

Your links that "prove" I lied about anything I said is nothing more than your failed attempt at twisting words to support your idiocy.
If you have any sort of educational degree, I suggest you go spend your time trying to get your money back.
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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #431 on: October 30, 2010, 04:26:46 PM »
Once again, If you believe that the wording in the lawsuit -- Kids taken against their will; has a better definition than kidnap. Show me. Maybe it doesn't use the word kidnap because they assume no court official is retarded enough that they would believe TAKEN AGAINST THEIR WILL means anything other than kidnap.

Please, prove your truth. One definition of transport or escort that says AGAINST THEIR WILL.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #432 on: October 30, 2010, 04:47:17 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"

I have not seen one link to my posts where you have proven I am a liar,

I posted them at least twice.


Quote
If you have any sort of educational degree, I suggest you go spend your time trying to get your money back.

This is obviously a post out of frustration on your part.  You seem to like taking personal shots at people during a discussion.  A few posts back you created a lie about how I was being paid by the industry to post here on fornits in an attempt to discredit my posts.  Then you start crying that I twisted your words and you never meant to say it.

I understand your position, Gonzo, but you are wrong.  If the kids were indeed kidnapped then the court documents would have stated that.  Instead they said they took the kids against their will.  But you see if the parents give permission and the kids are underage then it is legal and not kidnapping.  If kidnapping were described as kids being taken against their will then most of the school bus drivers in the United states would be in federal prison.

Until the kids turn 18 the parents have the say not the kids.  I think this is where you are getting mixed up.



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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #433 on: October 30, 2010, 04:51:03 PM »
Heres another link for you, the word KIDNAPPING used in the first few seconds to describe "escort services".
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 644740074#
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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: The smoking gun - do survivors lie?
« Reply #434 on: October 30, 2010, 04:59:18 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"

I have not seen one link to my posts where you have proven I am a liar,

I posted them at least twice.


Quote
If you have any sort of educational degree, I suggest you go spend your time trying to get your money back.

This is obviously a post out of frustration on your part.  You seem to like taking personal shots at people during a discussion.  A few posts back you created a lie about how I was being paid by the industry to post here on fornits in an attempt to discredit my posts.  Then you start crying that I twisted your words and you never meant to say it.

I understand your position, Gonzo, but you are wrong.  If the kids were indeed kidnapped then the court documents would have stated that.  Instead they said they took the kids against their will.  But you see if the parents give permission and the kids are underage then it is legal and not kidnapping.  If kidnapping were described as kids being taken against their will then most of the school bus drivers in the United states would be in federal prison.

Until the kids turn 18 the parents have the say not the kids.  I think this is where you are getting mixed up.



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If a schoolbus driver handcuffed that kid like they do in escorts, or physically threatened them into submission they would be arrested. I did not create a lie, I concluded that you have a vested interest in supporting and defending these schools, my opinion, which isn't a lie. You calling me a liar for that, well, makes you look stupid. Therefore I concluded that any education you have is worthless. Just my opinion. You twisted my words and tried to make it sound like I was paid to be here. Hmmmmmm, multibillion dollar industry trying to defend itself? No, that would never happen. Or me, backed by who? Who pays money to discredit this business? If you know of one sign me up, I'd gladly get paid to do this.
 And I'm afraid the definition of kidnapping does not include anything about parents permission. What do you think would happen if a schoolbus driver chased down a kid who didn't want to get on the bus, tackled them, and forced them handcuffed onto the bus?
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