Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Apology)

[Whooter]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.



...

[Shadyacres]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.

...

All these privileges come after the child has been indoctrinated (brainwashed), just like the place I was in 25 years ago.  Is that all you got?  These places have obviously been busy finding ways to distract from their real method, LGAT attack therapy.

[Anne Bonney]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.

You're not describing programs.

[Whooter]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.

...

All these privileges come after the child has been indoctrinated (brainwashed), just like the place I was in 25 years ago.  Is that all you got?  These places have obviously been busy finding ways to distract from their real method, LGAT attack therapy.

So the child can be brainwashed in several days to a couple of weeks?  Hmmm.  Like I said, read up on brainwashing and then come back and tell me if it is possible.  I am not talking about 25 years ago in straight.  I dont think that you played basketball with local highschool kids, went downtown for date night, went to school all day, prepared for the SATs, went white water rafting, spoke with friends and family outside the program, a licensed therapist who wasnt associated with the program, worked on community projects with locals etc.

Brainwashing needs a special controlled environment in-which it can thrive and take hold.  The kids need to be isolated from society and outside influences.  todays programs just dont fit that model, Shady.



...

[Anne Bonney]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.

All these privileges come after the child has been indoctrinated (brainwashed), just like the place I was in 25 years ago.  Is that all you got?  These places have obviously been busy finding ways to distract from their real method, LGAT attack therapy.

True, although we weren't allowed even those 'privileges'.  After we made it up to a certain phase we'd be allowed to do something like go to the mall with our parents for 2 hours, or possibly see a movie but it was either with our parents (who'd been sufficiently conditioned and trained to not believe anything we said about abuse and that if we DID say anything about it, our parents were to "report" that fact to staff immediately and we knew what would happen to us then....oh lord, we knew - so we kept our mouths shut) or with other staff along with us to make sure nobody spoke to anyone outside the program about, well pretty much anything at all, but mainly to make sure we didn't let on to anyone what was really going on inside.

[Anne Bonney]

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

since you brought it up again and we are talking about opinions here:
Hmmmm.....and lets see why would you be still here after 30 years, Anne.  If you were truly convinced that the programs screwed up your life you would have gotten past that 25 years ago.  So you must realize that you screwed up, not the program, but that doesnt sit too well with you so you log on day after day here on fornits to in a failed attempt to fool yourself into believing the program was somehow responsible for your placement.  You distanced yourself from your family with your new friends and drug use.  You didnt listen to their concerns about the non stop partying, skipping school and car accidents you were getting into.  Your parents gave you plenty of freedoms, (they didnt over react or jump the gun)  and you flushed it all down the toilet and forced their hand into getting you help.........  30 years later its till someone else's fault and you sit and wait for an apology that will probably never come because it isn't warranted in anyones' mind except your own.  You screwed up when you were young.  You just need to face the facts and quit blaming other people and programs.

...

Whooter, young people are supposed to make mistakes.  It is called learning.  You make a mistake, you feel the consequences of that mistake and you learn to not do it again.  However, crippling a child psychologically is NOT a reasonable consequence for anything, period.  These programs, and you Whooter, take normal teenage behavior and use it as an excuse to terrorize and demoralize children who are already struggling, usually because their parents have failed them in one way or another.  These places WILL be found to be criminally motivated and criminally operated, the only question is how long will it take?  And what kind of upbringing did you have? To talk to Anne like that?  YOU HAVE READ HER STORY!  What pit of ignorance and narcissism did you crawl out of?

He does it for the "Grins".

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31625&start=60#p386108

And your comment to Psy about 'damage control'.......holy shit....talk about pot/kettle.

Exactly.  How many times have I heard you say I was doing “Damage Control”?  Now that the shoe is on the other foot all of a sudden the term doesn’t apply?  
I enjoy watching the double standard play out here on fornits sometimes, Anne.  I added it for Grins.

I'm sure you did.  I'm sure you get a big kick out of what you do to us here.  How sad and pathetic that you get enjoyment out of tormenting people who were abused as children.  

[Shadyacres]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

Thanks, anne, my links were a little different but these will do.  

Here you go shadyacres.  Read up on brainwashing and then come back try to explain how a kid can be brainwashed when they go to school all day, play basketball, go on whitewater rafting trips.  Have datenight trips into town for pizza.  Prepare for SAT's, write letters to their family and friends, call home once a week, have periodic family visits on campus and off campus, meet once a week with a licensed therapist who is not associated with the school and communicates with the childs therapist at home  and then plan for graduation.

...

For the sake of clarity, most of those privileges ( except the rafting trip ) were available to "clients" on the higher phases of the program, but only after they had made it through the living hell that is Phases 1 - 3.  By this time they were fire breathing ( brainwashed ) program nazis and therefore "trustworthy".  But, as Anne just pointed out they NEVER let anybody go anywhere alone, there was always a pair of program eyes and program ears around to make sure we were not "backsliding".

[Ursus]

I dont think that you played basketball with local highschool kids, went downtown for date night, went to school all day, prepared for the SATs, went white water rafting, spoke with friends and family outside the program, a licensed therapist who wasnt associated with the program, worked on community projects with locals etc.

Brainwashing needs a special controlled environment in-which it can thrive and take hold. The kids need to be isolated from society and outside influences. todays programs just dont fit that model, Shady.

Yep, that "controlled environment" is called a therapeutic milieu. And if the majority of the people involved in all of the above activities are already duly indoctrinated, sure, it's easy enough to "brainwash" or "thought reform" a kid, even with all that going on. "Positive peer culture," ya know?

[Whooter]

Whooter, young people are supposed to make mistakes. It is called learning. You make a mistake, you feel the consequences of that mistake and you learn to not do it again.

There is a very small population of children who do not learn from their consequences and still continue down a path of self destruction.  All teenagers act out and test their boundaries.  But most stay pretty much on a good path, attend school etc.

However, crippling a child psychologically is NOT a reasonable consequence for anything, period.

We agree here.

These programs, and you Whooter, take normal teenage behavior and use it as an excuse to terrorize and demoralize children who are already struggling, usually because their parents have failed them in one way or another.

I disagree with this.

These places WILL be found to be criminally motivated and criminally operated, the only question is how long will it take?

I agree that some are motivated this way and eventually will be found out and closed.

And what kind of upbringing did you have? To talk to Anne like that? YOU HAVE READ HER STORY! What pit of ignorance and narcissism did you crawl out of?

I wouldn’t worry too much.  You are fairly new here, This is anne Bonneys MO.  She attacks me and then when I retaliate she seeks out attention from the forum.   “Oh, why did you say those things about me… I never say anything bad about you, Whooter”  She will fan the flames and get what she can out of it attention wise.



...

[Anne Bonney]

I wouldn’t worry too much.  You are fairly new here, This is anne Bonneys MO.  She attacks me and then when I retaliate she seeks out attention from the forum.   “Oh, why did you say those things about me… I never say anything bad about you, Whooter”  She will fan the flames and get what she can out of it attention wise.

Wrong again.  You've just done it so much (and not just to me) that I've gotten used to it and it pretty much bounces off me.  But it is telling to see the reactions from other people who see how you speak to me.  Hell, I went thru Straight......I can take a helluva lot more than a pathetic person like Whooter can dish out.

[Whooter]

I wouldn’t worry too much.  You are fairly new here, This is anne Bonneys MO.  She attacks me and then when I retaliate she seeks out attention from the forum.   “Oh, why did you say those things about me… I never say anything bad about you, Whooter”  She will fan the flames and get what she can out of it attention wise.

Wrong again.  You've just done it so much (and not just to me) that I've gotten used to it and it pretty much bounces off me.  But it is telling to see the reactions from other people who see how you speak to me.  Hell, I went thru Straight......I can take a helluva lot more than a pathetic person like Whooter can dish out.

No I am right.  You enjoy saying I profit from the industry and that I post here for marketing purposes etc., etc.(you use the sharp stick).  Then when I write about you in response, you get upset and demand links and citations.  lol.  We all know you like the attention, Anne, otherwise you would not provoke it so often.  Like you said it happens alot so you know in the end you will get the attention you crave from it.

I have thick skin and do not mind the fall out from it.  



...

[Samara]

Nutty post. Whooter the most inflammatory and ever present poster on Fornits thinks Anne is the attention ho. WTF?  But seriously, I am wondering if you can actually answer a direct question directly.

Why are you here when you have no respect for the site or its posters? Or even more succinctly:
WHY ARE YOU HERE?

[Anne Bonney]

I wouldn’t worry too much.  You are fairly new here, This is anne Bonneys MO.  She attacks me and then when I retaliate she seeks out attention from the forum.   “Oh, why did you say those things about me… I never say anything bad about you, Whooter”  She will fan the flames and get what she can out of it attention wise.

Wrong again.  You've just done it so much (and not just to me) that I've gotten used to it and it pretty much bounces off me.  But it is telling to see the reactions from other people who see how you speak to me.  Hell, I went thru Straight......I can take a helluva lot more than a pathetic person like Whooter can dish out.

No I am right.  You enjoy saying I profit from the industry and that I post here for marketing purposes etc., etc.(you use the sharp stick).  Then when I write about you in response, you get upset and demand links and citations.  lol.  We all know you like the attention, Anne, otherwise you would not provoke it so often.  Like you said it happens alot so you know in the end you will get the attention you crave from it.

I have thick skin and do not mind the fall out from it.  

Tell yourself whatever you need to dude.  

[Whooter]

Tell yourself whatever you need to dude.  

Cheers, here is back at you, Anne.  I mentioned to you before there is no need to call people names or invent motives for why people post here in an attempt to discredit them.  Just accept each poster equally.  Each of us post based on our own experiences, we are all different and I think its unfair to try to undercut someone by spreading lies about them or to try to seek attention (whatever the motive is).



...

[Samara]

Then why do you do it, Whooter?