Do Programs Lie?

[Gonzotherapy]

http://www.wturley.com/Recent-Filings/2 ... Claims.pdf

This thread is dedicated to exposing the lies told by programs. This includes all aspects and entities including escort services, consulting firms, screening facilities, etc...
The above link is a lawsuit filed against the WWASPS organization, in it are many allegations of abuse, as well as how the organizations fooled parents into believing what they were doing was right and safe for their child.
Please post here and provide links or information of lies that were told, and first hand accounts of your experience, or proof that what was said is in fact a lie.

A few of the lies I experienced -- Browning Academy was a licensed and accredited school -- LIE
                                            -- Brightway was a licensed medical facility -- LIE
                                            -- Program staff were licensed/professional counselors -- LIE
My hope here is to provide parents looking to send their child to one of these programs with tools to identify warning signs that the facility they may be considering is telling them the same lies my parents were told.

[Gonzotherapy]

In particular if anyone has any proof of lies told by the program Aspen Education, I would love to see if they have told any lies to parents and or students.
http://ficanetwork.blogspot.com/search/ ... on%20Group

[Whooter]

My hope here is to provide parents looking to send their child to one of these programs with tools to identify warning signs that the facility they may be considering is telling them the same lies my parents were told.

To answer your question as to “Do programs Lie?”  The answer is “Yes” some of them do.  As with all businesses the customers must heed to the words “Buyer Beware”.

Some advice to parents is to ask to speak with other parents and children who have been through the program.  This way you can bypass any motive to place your child unnecessarily and still get first hand information and a more truthful view point.

Also I think that parents should get a third independent opinion before even considering placement to see if your child needs to be placed and/or would do well in a structured environment.  The third party may also have heard of the programs you are considering and warn you if they have a bad reputation.

Try to search for groups on line who have set up alumni pages on facebook /myspace.  Many of these kids speak about their experiences and you will get a feel for the program from the child’s perspective.

Some of the Alumni Pages look like this:

Alumni/Parents Info



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[Gonzotherapy]

To answer your question as to “Do programs Lie?”  The answer is “Yes” some of them do.  As with all businesses the customers must heed to the words “Buyer Beware”.

Some advice to parents is to ask to speak with other parents and children who have been through the program.  This way you can bypass any motive to place your child unnecessarily and still get first hand information and a more truthful view point.

Also I think that parents should get a third independent opinion before even considering placement to see if your child needs to be placed and/or would do well in a structured environment.  The third party may also have heard of the programs you are considering and warn you if they have a bad reputation.

Try to search for groups on line who have set up alumni pages on facebook /myspace.  Many of these kids speak about their experiences and you will get a feel for the program from the child’s perspective.

Some of the Alumni Pages look like this:

I have told lies myself from time to time.  


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viewtopic.php?f=77&t=30975#p374568
Just so we are clear, Whooter makes money off of these programs so this information may not be the most objective. Whooter is admittedly a liar and has a vested monetary interest in programs, thank you Whooter for giving a clear example of the manipulation and lies programs are capable of.

[Whooter]

The following thread shows proof that some programs lied.  You will also see that there hasn’t been anything reported since 2008, on this site, which is good sign that the lies are not systemic or indicative to the industry as a whole.
Link

A Heads-up to parents/Readers:  Please check any links carefully that are presented by Gonzotherapy regarding alleged proof that programs lie.
Just to be fair to the people reading this thread you should all be aware that the poster, Gonzotherapy, has been posting here on fornits under several user names claiming to have attended programs.  He has been caught in several lies.  So I would be careful about any facts that he presents and check the links carefully on this thread.



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[Gonzotherapy]

A Heads-up to parents/Readers:  Please check any links carefully that are presented by Gonzotherapy regarding alleged proof that programs lie.
Just to be fair to the people reading this thread you should all be aware that the poster, Gonzotherapy, has been posting here on fornits under several user names claiming to have attended programs(ANY PROOF OF THIS WHOOTER?).  He has been caught in several lies[color=#000000](ANY PROOF OF THIS WHOOTER?).  So I would be careful about any facts that he presents and check the links carefully on this thread.[/b][/color]

I have told lies myself from time to time.  


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This is classic program tactics, I spent a year in a program in Paradise Cove in 96-97. Program staff use tactics just like these to convince parents that kids are lying when they write home about the horribly abusive conditions. Parents are quick to discredit what their children tell them because of program staff manipulation. Only to find out later when programs are closed that their children were in fact telling the truth.
Here is another clear example of a program (since Whooter is known to have program ties and links have been provided) telling lies, notice the lack of any proof or links proving that I post under any other name, or have told any lies.

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=30975#p374568 Check this link to see who the real liar is.

There is a topic here Whooter, it is program lies, nice try on derailing the thread because you have been exposed :tup:

[Whooter]

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[Gonzotherapy]

I firmly believe that one of the reasons programs have been able to get away with lying for so long is because of a few graduates who spend their times not being truthful about what occurred inside the program.  We have all seen posters like Gonzotherapy posting under multiple identities (PROOF?) and getting caught in lies that he cannot explain (WHERE?) it makes us wonder which lies are the programs and which are Gonzo's.  There are many credible graduates of programs but unfortunately Gonztherapy isnt one of them (BECAUSE WHOOTER SAYS SO?).  With the borders blurred like this I strongly recommend checking multiple sources before committing to making up your mind either way.

A few things that I do myself is:
 Check the source (credibility) of the poster and
Try to find another source which confirms the allegations.

I have told lies myself from time to time.  


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As none of Whooters allegations are true, and he has admitted to being a liar, lets look into Aspen Education, the program he is involved in.
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/AspenRanch.htm

and here is some interesting reading as well.
http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm

What I find very interesting is the similarities between this program and the WWASPS program, very similar level structure, very similar "escort" methods, very similar ways of dealing with new and "out of control" detainees. And the fact that a therapist that Aspen claimed to be accredited who worked at their facility, was actually not. They were forced by the Utah Marriage and Family Licensing Board to correct the LIE that they had on their website. Hmmmmm. This sounds alot like the lies of the WWASPS programs, outlined in the lawsuit, and there is proof that licenses were not held when parents were told that they were.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/wwasps/WWASPCrimeReport.doc

[Gonzotherapy]

I'm only speaking for myself.  I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.  

Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up.  I do not suffer from that shortcoming.

John David Reuben posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.  

People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. TheWho (Whooter?), believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business.  For people like John, children have no rights and no say.

To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor" because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.  

He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.  

Therein is the crux of the argument.  He railroads children into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.  

This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place.  And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.

This John D. Reuben guy sounds like a major-league psycho.........

What was that again, who is it that posts under several different names?

[Whooter]

To answer your question as to “Do programs Lie?” The answer is “Yes” some of them do. As with all businesses the customers must heed to the words “Buyer Beware”.

If the business is for profit then there is the potential that people will lie to you to get you to buy their product.  In this case it is sending your child to their program.  The industry, from what I have seen, is highly competitive and therefore subject to fraud and deceptive practices for some marginally qualified programs to stay afloat.

There are programs like Dundee Ranch Academy who told parents that they were non-religious yet they exposed the kids to seminary classes in the early morning hours each day.  They were pushing Mormon religion on these kids without the consent of the parent.  This was in direct opposition to what many parents wanted for their children.  These parents were never warned that their kids could be exposed to the Mormon religion.  In fact they were told just the opposite.

Link

My hope here is to provide parents looking to send their child to one of these programs with tools to identify warning signs that the facility they may be considering is telling them the same lies my parents were told.

The warning signs are hard to distinguish in my opinion.  Any program can say one thing and do something else.  One way for the parents to protect themselves is to ask the school/program for a list of parents/families who have completed the program.  This would give them the opportunity to speak to people like themselves who have been through the roller coaster ride.  They can ask some hard questions and get honest answers.

There are many sites on-line which are dedicated to bringing alumni and parents together to talk about their experiences.  If you can find a group like this you can potentially join and ask the kids how they liked the program.



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[Gonzotherapy]

http://www.heal-online.org/aspenachieve.htm
Here is an interesting link providing a look into the shady practices of Aspen Education

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/04/trouble ... harges.php
Here is a link accusing Aspen education of two deaths because of inadequately trained and ill equipped counselors. I would imagine that they did not disclose that to parents who are wanting to enroll their kids there.


http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.d ... ory=NEWS01
Another link exposing the shady practices of Aspen.

[Anonymous]

A Heads-up to parents/Readers:  Please check any links carefully that are presented by Gonzotherapy regarding alleged proof that programs lie.
Just to be fair to the people reading this thread you should all be aware that the poster, Gonzotherapy, has been posting here on fornits under several user names claiming to have attended programs(ANY PROOF OF THIS WHOOTER?).  He has been caught in several lies[color=#000000](ANY PROOF OF THIS WHOOTER?).  So I would be careful about any facts that he presents and check the links carefully on this thread.[/b][/color]

I have told lies myself from time to time.  


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...

This is classic program tactics, I spent a year in a program in Paradise Cove in 96-97. Program staff use tactics just like these to convince parents that kids are lying when they write home about the horribly abusive conditions. Parents are quick to discredit what their children tell them because of program staff manipulation. Only to find out later when programs are closed that their children were in fact telling the truth.
Here is another clear example of a program (since Whooter is known to have program ties and links have been provided) telling lies, notice the lack of any proof or links proving that I post under any other name, or have told any lies.

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=30975#p374568 Check this link to see who the real liar is.

There is a topic here Whooter, it is program lies, nice try on derailing the thread because you have been exposed :tup:

Looks like Gonzo got your number, Whooter.  Ha,Ha,Ha.

[Anne Bonney]

http://www.heal-online.org/aspenachieve.htm

Here is an interesting link providing a look into the shady practices of Aspen Education
http://www.momlogic.com/2010/04/trouble ... harges.php

Here is a link accusing Aspen education of two deaths because of inadequately trained and ill equipped counselors. I would imagine that they did not disclose that to parents who are wanting to enroll their kids there.

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.d ... ory=NEWS01

Another link exposing the shady practices of Aspen.

I'd like to see those addressed too.

[Gonzotherapy]

Here is a very good report, seems to be very objective. In particular I noticed the attention being drawn to the Aspen Education marketing ploys.
http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3.031/aspen.html

It really makes me wonder, is there any chance that Dr. Phil was paid by Aspen Ed. for his recommendation?

This link has an interesting comment. It says here that one of the accreditations for an Aspen program is the Northwest Association for Accredited Schools -- Which is NOT recognized by the United States Department of Education.
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/ ... nGroup.htm

This is the exact same tactic used by WWASPS, they created an accreditation for their school Browning Academy.
One of the biggest things I think parents who want to send their child away need to look at is LICENSES. Make sure that if a program is telling you about their licenses and accreditations that these are RECOGNIZED, not their personal accreditation that only certifies them to operate in never-never land.

 :deal:   DO YOUR HOMEWORK

[Whooter]

Here is a link accusing Aspen education of two deaths because of inadequately trained and ill equipped counselors. I would imagine that they did not disclose that to parents who are wanting to enroll their kids there.

I think that is a very good ethical question.  Is it lying if you do not disclose deaths that occurred within the program to prospective parents?  I am not convinced that it would be in all cases.

If the deaths were caused by something systemic to the schools process resulting in new children being placed in danger then withholding this information would be unethical and it would be lying to tell parents that their children would be safe there.  If on the other hand the children's death would be unrelated to the safety of the new children then there is no need to bring it up to prospective parents.



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