What if AA is mainstream and Fornits is the cult?

[DannyB II]

Well I can tell you as someone who has dealt with addiction, that it is a disease that lasts forever. There is no cure, and you never get over it. People that say otherwise are usually selling something, or have no experience with addiction themselves or with family members.

Well I can tell you as someone who has dealt with addiction, both personally and with family members, that it is not a disease and it does not have to last forever.  That is a myth created to "keep coming back".   The cure is to quit.  If you can't quit alone, get some professional help not quackery that some Bella Donna and withdrawal induced whacko came up with in one of his "visions".  Bill Wilson, Dr. Bob, the big book, 12 & 12 are treated as sacred.  When anyone dares question the methods, the Stepcrafters go nuts and start attacking the people who dare to question them!  Just like when someone questions the Scientologists.  It's very similar and it does kill people.  

Anne, ya know what, it does not matter what you believe or know. Why?? Because if you look into it realistically (we) are in the minority. Bill Wilson did not believe in the disease or allergy diagnosis, he spoke about this in 1970 just before he died.
It does not matter, Treatment Centers coined the phrase and the majority of new folks in AA/NA say it.

I've been through many different forms of drug treatment, over the years. So far every single treatment center I've gone to had some form of AA meetings, and recovery ideas adopted within their treatment system.

Yup and they make a ton of money off of it.

Yeah and none of the money goes to the GSO AA in NYC.

The only facility I've been at that did not use AA in any way, is the private program I went to that has its own subforum here, they never mentioned anything related to AA even once. They actually believed in the ideology Psy tells people here, that we are all powerful people in charge of our choices, and being powerless is not an idea to embrace. According to the program we could choose to quit, and choose to be an addict or not. Now I have admitted that this program saved my life, and that's true, but I disagree with their philosophy about life being a series of choices.

Then no wonder you feel you need someone to tell  you how to live your life.  

Anne, that is not what he is saying. AA does not actually tell you how to live a "LIFE". AA introduces a design for living, suggestive at it's core.

Some things in our lives are and always be out of our control,

Yes, but it is up to us now we deal with those things.

This is true.

like addiction.

 You might feel that the addiction itself might not be a choice, but how you deal with it certainly  is.

Once you are in the grips of a addiction it is at that time, not a choice, just ask any medical professional. Anne, you are talking afterwards, after medical attention and you have abstained. Yes, I do believe once recovered to your natural state, the choice is yours.

AA/NA and it's various groups are a large population of people, probably in the millions.  Many different groups of people with various issues have adopted the AA model to form support groups for their own problems, more proof that many people think the AA model is effective for them.

No, that's not proof that it's effective.....its' proof that it's become popular.


Anne, why is it so necessary for you to get caught up in these condemnations of AA, if people believe it has helped them then this is all the proof you need.
OK, we get it. Anne does not like AA, well thousands upon thousands would disagree with you.
 

The treatment centers I was in that adopted AA as part of their treatment program, were run by highly educated mental health professionals. Are we to believe that everyone from the treatment center employees, down to the person attending their community AA meeting is brainwashed,  and part of a cult that works against their own interests?

Yes.

Anne, you are just being stubborn now.

Common sense suggests that is highly unlikely.

Common sense tells us that humans are looking for "the answer".  Just like snakeoil salesmen of the old days, AA swears they have it.  Unfortunately Valliant's study proves that to be untrue and shows that AA actually raises the death level among alcoholics.

WoW, you really do not trust others do you. Valliants study does not prove anything near that, all it does is raise an argument/theory.
All folks are doing when they come to AA, is, to stop drinking. That's it, Anne. Your adding in your own interpretation after that.

Perhaps AA/NA do work, and that is why treatment centers have invited them in, and so many different groups have decided to form their own version of anonymous support groups. Everytime a meeting occurs, people vote with their attendance, if AA did not help these people they would not show up, because they have no obligation to. Yet people continue to go. I've met people with 50 year sobriety chips, and I'd ask it's been so long why do you still come? They'd explain to me that they are still an alcoholic, and even 50 years later even one drink could lead them down the dark path that led them to AA in the first place. This supports the idea that addiction is a disease rather than a choice.

No, it doesn't.  It supports the idea that humans are seeking "the answer" and will believe what they want or need to in order to get that answer.

Anne, we do not know what treatment centers today, are doing. Why??? Because I don't think they know. My last treatment center was a 30 day center. The clinical director could not stand AA, for the same reasons you don't Anne. One difference he allowed folks to make there own decisions and he did not think, AA was inherently bad/harmful.

The idea that drug or alcohol addiction is a choice, is nothing short of insulting. Addiction is a serious medical issue.

Then it should be dealt with by medical professionals, not the rantings of a certifiable lunatic like Bill Wilson who is so revered in "the rooms".

No Anne, Bill is not revered. You seem to be the only one who puts Bill on a pedestal. Bill was a lunatic, no more then you Anne.

There are experiments using monkeys with drugs like cocaine, and given a choice of cocaine or food they choose to use cocaine and starve to death. Is that their "choice"?

Oh please!!!   Their brains do not function cognitively the way ours do.  Now you're just being ridiculous.

Anne, you really think so. You said you were a addict, a crack head. If in fact you were, the monkey behavior was in effect.

But what most people see is that the chemical changes the chemistry of the person to a degree, they make unhealthy choices to support their addiction, even if it costs them their own lives.

True, but that has nothing to do with AA.

Why does this have nothing to do with AA, alcohol is a drug (chemical) it changes the chemistry differently in every person.
AA, most definitely deals with this. One of the first medical check ups I was asked to get was to look for possible damage to my mind and body from alcohol. Read the, "Doctors Opinion".

 

Fornits posters think you should just ignore a person dealing with such serious addiction issues, and tell them "just quit, it's your choice".

No, what we've said is to seek real help, not the sham that is AA.

As most folks know here and other sites, thank god, is AA is very much part of the treatment you will receive.

But other people like AA know it's a lot more complicated than that, and a long, long battle for some people, and choose to offer them a support group made up of people who also went through similar experiences. Only somebody who hasn't dealt with serious addiction could dismiss the life destroying cycle of addiction as a "choice", it simply is not accurate.

You keep saying that but you're completely wrong.  There are plenty of us out here who have had damn serious drug problems and have successfully dealt with them without joining a cult-like group.

That is not true at all, most of you started out in AA/NA and moved on. The only statement lacking in your story, Anne. Is your gratitude towards AA/NA helping you to get on your way to a healthy life.
I am talking about AA/NA after you had left, Straight.

All of the people who willingly show up at AA/NA meetings going on across the country today, choose to go because something about AA works for them. Maybe you might not understand why, or how it works for them. But does that make you right, and them wrong? Is such a large group of people who willingly make that choice to attend a meeting, a cult?

There are millions of people attending Scientology.  Just because they have large numbers does that mean they're not a cult?

Why are we bringing up Scientology One has nothing to do with the other.
 
 

No, of course not. But it's an easy way to dismiss what they are saying, and the hard reality that addiction is a serious disease.

That's your reality.

It is thousands.

Fornits, on the other hand, is a relatively minuscule population compared to amount of people participating in AA. I think everybody can accept that fact. The few people who make fornits a regular part of their lives, were abused or had negative experiences in programs as underage youths.

Yes, so why do you insist on coming here and trying to cram your version of "help" down our throats?  We were already "helped" almost to death and we're a little sick of it.

Because he is allowed.

 

Some of these programs used a warped version of AA that resembles nothing of the AA in the free world.

Since I've been in both an extremely abusive program and in AA for a number of years, I can say that they are very similar in nature but AA does it in a much more subtle way.  If they came at the newcomers like programs do, people would be running out of "the rooms" in droves.

Anne, your nose is growing by the second. Why is it, you find the need to fabricate. You were doing so well, then you veer off into disillusion.

Fornits takes a extreme political position regarding treatment, in that many posters here think treatment in any form is wrong.

I don't think I've ever heard someone say that here.  Can you point me to a link showing where someone did?

It is in the very fabric of fornits to a certain degree. I think it would be better said that people here on fornits are leery of forms of treatment.

That is not a mainstream position.

You seem to be under the misguided notion that just because something is considered mainstream that it makes it right.

Well, when most humans say the word, "mainstream" they are referring to what most people think is "right".

Go talk to regular everyday people who don't read fornits about AA, drug treatment centers, or teen programs. Most people actually support these kind of treatment options, and most people know somebody who went to AA, or had serious addiction issues like a friend of family member.

I do, quite frequently.  And I get a lot of them saying that they're glad they've got some moral support but that AA gets a little too creepy and controlling for them so they go and find some real help.

Max, Anne will not get honest about this to save her life. You are just banging your head against a wall.

Fornits is a political conversation. Nowhere else could somebody make such a long argument against AA and be considered mainstream other than the internet, I'm sorry but this is true. Most people see it as a legitimate organization.

There you go again with "mainstream = right" idea.

Anne, your world is a very small one and your fears, say so.

On fornits it's a world where all programs are conspiring to hurt as many teens as possible and AA is a cult brainwashing people with dangerous thoughts.

No, that's your view of Fornits.  You don't like that people actually challenge the "mainstream" notion that AA is good, so you throw your tantrums.  Daily.  If it works for you, great.....keep going back but quit trying to shove it down our throats.

Anne, please refrain from attacking him. He is not throwing any tantrums or shoving anything anywhere.

If I never experienced programs, or AA I might be inclined to believe it, people here make some good arguments to suggest so.

Yes, we do.  We also cite sources to back up our claims in addition to our own anecdotal experiences, although those are outright dismissed by you guys.

Anne you cite anecdotal sources from the Orange Papers and  Valliant's, there opinions. AA has a Book, if you did not know, Bill cites many sources.

But I know that reality is a lot different than fornits reality,

Your reality is different than a lot of people's reality.  So what?  Why do you still insist on cramming it down our throats?  It doesn't work for us and we've found evidence as to why it creeped us out so badly.  Why can't you let us have our own views on it?

I did not know by posting different views on this site we were preventing you from having yours. Sounds like Anne, you can not stand it when someone else has a different opinion and tells you about it.

 

and it's not so black and white as people here like to portray it. Good things happen in "bad" programs, we might not like to admit it, but it's true.

Sure....and I became a much stronger person after I was raped, but I'd rather not have gone thru the torture just to get a little stronger.

Is this a true statement or a metaphor.

AA is good thing, I'm sorry but this is true.

That's your truth.

I have yet to hear a reason why people here are so against AA, other than they think "it doesn't work".

Than, as I suspected, you haven't been paying attention.  You don't like what we're saying, so you tune out the evidence we've provided for you.

Anne, evidence can be very speculative as you well know.

So I am here to suggest that AA is not the cult.

Ok...you've suggested it.  Can we move on now or are you going to continue to create thread after thread devoted to your beloved Stepcraft?

This is right. You folks post after post about how programs are bad. You don't seem to have a problem with this.

It is fornits, with it's extreme anti treatment opinions and agenda that is truly the cult. Fornits anti treatment ideology is based on a select number of experiences, reinforced with a forum designed to focus solely on these negative experiences.

"Fornits" isn't anything.  It's a friggin message board.

Anne, now that is not true, at all. Fornits is a political arm trying to push a agenda. Not that I find any problem with this. I actually encourage it.

When in reality, the people posting on fornits compared to the number who went to programs is relatively insignificant,

Then why do you bother devoting so much time to it?

people here take these limited number of experiences and use them to paint the entire industry with blood.

I know it makes you feel better to believe that our experiences are 'limited'....then you can dismiss them instead of actually trying to learn something.

Who can oppose treatment the most? This is where Aa comes in, it's not related to the troubled teen industry in any way.

Now I know you're delusional.  You've said yourself that the wonderful people of AA/NA would devote their precious time to come in and indoctrinate, errr, talk to the kids.

Yet because it represents a form of treatment, something this forum is against, then it too must be condemned and intellectual arguments made to support this must be constructed.

You really don't read much of what we write, do you?

In the end though, it doesn't matter that fornits opposes AA, they will survive and thrive like they always have.

Again, then why do you devote thread after thread to the worship of Bill Wilson and his brand of quackery?

Fornits on the other hand seems to be getting slower over time, and less people are comfortable with the extremist anti treatment ideology here.

It's a friggin message board for people who were abused in programs to talk.   That's it.  You're trying to make it something it's not and then arguing against your fictional version of it.

AA is based on openness, and helping people. Fornits is now based on censoring and threatening inconvenient opinions, and telling people what to think. You can say whatever you want in an AA meeting and people will listen and not challenge you.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Unlike fornits is you dare suggest you had a positive experience in a program, you will be trolled with disgusting pictures, called a liar and be presented with countless conspiracy theories about "who you really are".

As Psy has pointed out to you, it happens here all the time.  On the one hand y'all say that Fornits is insignificant, but on the other hand you guys go to the extremes of pretending to be program vets to counter what we're saying.  If Fornits were so insignificant, you wouldn't bother...but you do, day after day after day in thread after thread after thread.

Fornits is paranoid, close minded and has an ideology built on the faulty foundation of generalizations and self centerednes.

Fornits is a goddamned message board, nothing more.

AA is exactly the opposite, they are open,

    Sure they are.   :lala:

and has an ideology built upon the foundation of the experiences of many alcoholics and addicts that collectively make up the organization.  

They have an ideology built upon the rantings of a crazy man using Bella Donna and going thru extreme alcohol withdrawal.

Anne, please grow up. Then we can actually take your ranting somewhat seriously.

Imagine you are an alcoholic/ addict. You might have made choices the first few times you used, but eventually you lost control and you finally had the realization about what people meant when they say addiction is a disease. You lose your job, your family, your house, all because you can't stop using. Then someone comes up and offers you help. Come to our group of people who went through what you did, and we will listen and not judge you. We want to help you recover and regain the life you had once before. They offer you help, a sober living place, and phone number to call when you feel like using, and tell you can call 24/7. These people who didn't know you, help you after your family and everybody else you knew dismissed you as a problematic alcoholic/addict. How would that make you feel?

Wonderful.  It does feel great, in the beginning.   That's how they start the indoctrination process.   Later on, the control over your life starts and AA shows its true self.

Anne, your rambling again.

But now imagine, you come to fornits and ask for advice. You explain that you lost everything because you are an alcoholic/addict and don't know how to help yourself. Then a red  titled poster (must be the cult leader) shows up and tells you that everything in your life is a choice. You chose to lose your family, your home, and all your friends because you chose to be a alcoholic and drug addict. You have a bad habit, which you chose, and you can simply choose to stop using alcohol or drugs, if you really wanted to. You are not powerless over your addiction, you are in full control and the solution to all your problems is just to choose not to be an alcoholic or drug addict anymore. How would this make you feel?

Shitty, but sometimes reality sucks.  If fact, quite often it sucks but it doesn't make it any less true.  AA gives people a reason not to take personal responsibility for their actions.

No AA, gave you a reason to take responsibility for your life. I am sorry you were such a fuck up that you could not even grasp the simple tools AA was trying to give you. I am happy though as you have said before, that you were able to find a counselor that would put up with your crap enough to get through your hard head.
Anne, you have to remember the amount of resentment you had towards AA, from being in Straight. Take this into account.

If you can empathize with someone truly suffering from addiction, what option of help would you choose? Which would be more helpful to you, as a person? The answer is why fornits will remain a small, extremist cult of ideas, and AA will remain a successful, large community supported organization .

So you ask a question, don't wait for an answer and then slam Fornits for what you assume the answer would be.  Nice.

Because one is true, and helpful. The other is insulting, and not helpful.  

Where did you ever get the idea that Fornits is in the business of addiction therapy?

Where did you get the idea, that Fornits is what "you" think it is or better stated what "you" want it to be. Anne, listen to Ginger, stop talking. Your digging a insurmountable hole, throw the shovel, away.

But lucky for us fornits is just a discussion forum, and the extremist rhetoric posted on this forum has no impact on the real world of AA and the people who choose to attend. There is a small group of people who post here who think that AA is a bad organization and should be avoided. But there are millions who make up meetings across the world every day, and as a silent majority they are not represented in fornits reality. But let's look at the big picture, AA will be around for a long time to come. Fornits? Probably not so much.

You keep saying that....a lot.  But, again, you're here starting countless threads devoted to blasting the evil, yet impotent Fornits.  You're a strange bird.

Strange bird yes but he is part of your flock. Why don't you try acceptance for a change.

[DannyB II]

But what if I did spend my free time passing out AA flyers out at bars on their windshields out in the parking lot? What would people here say about me?

Nothing....it happens all the time.

Anne, only in Florida does this whacked out shit happen.  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[DannyB II]

The fact is AA is very mainstream and many people voluntarily go to meetings everyday. But admitting this simple fact on fornits, means you are "creating fictitious program vets." How did you figure it out? All this time, I worked so hard at creating a fake "survivor" (is vets what the old-timer survivors call themselves?) just so I could convince people here that AA is great. I hoped nobody would find out but AA is paying me a lot of money to convince the final half dozen hold outs that reside on fornits, to come to meetings, then everybody in the world will love AA and all the critics silenced. What will I do now, that my cover has been blown?

Like I said the fact is AA remains mainstream. Fornits is considered extreme, to everybody associated or having experienced the Troubled Teen Industry. I am just relaying the reality of these two different organizations are perceived by most people. Perhaps you disagree, maybe when somebody needs help from being an addict their first thought is, well better go to fornits and ask for help. It's interesting that people consider a self help organization a cult, because it's views are so mainstream. Yet fornits insists all programs are evil, and should be shut down, based on a limited sample of experiences. Go talk to people in real life that are not fornits posters, and see if they agree with you that all treatment programs are bad, and should be shut down. Then ask if they think somebody who is an alcoholic should go to AA if they need help. Ask 10 people these questions, in real life, and see what they say. Then you will realize that this thread's question is very much accurate, that AA is mainstream and fornits is the cult.

Hey Max... Why does it bother you so bad that the few of us have our own thoughts about AA... Did you not learn the slogan "Live an Let Live" in AA... We were not personally attacking you per say, however each time one of us that have something negative to say, you or one of the others quickly run and start a rebuttal. Surely you could go to AA websites and preach to the choir, but here you come to Fornits which you call a cult and try to change our way of thinking... I am not powerless, I make my own destiny through my own decisions and do not rely on others to validate my existance or whether my thinking process is off.

PS Would you not be happier talking to people that share your thought process and belief system rather than trying to force it on other people who don't

BP,
Can you please just stop writing. You give me a damn headache every time I read your hypocritical posts. BP, you really have no idea what you write from post to post, do you. Your explaining to Max that he is attacking you while your busy attacking him on a thread that Max, started.  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
Keep smoking and drinking, it's working.

[DannyB II]

During my many years in the rooms of AA and NA... ( NA Mostly) we were taught to live with the world harmonously, not to be in conflict where ever the AA or NA name was concerned. We were taught that attraction came from us walking the walk not talking the talk. When it came to living harmonously we did not have to argue our point we could agree to disagree and let things die... Remember "Live and let Live" or my version of it was if it don't fit don't force it... I am not trying to persuade you to our way of thinking however you continious post on the matter shows a fact of life that you can not live with, there are people who do not want the life of an AA'er.. If that is the life you choose, more power to you, that is your free will.. You are not powerless you make that choice.

Yeah, you were learning all this while you had a joint in your mouth with a beer coming next. BP, please save it for your bar buddies.

[DannyB II]

So it's fine that Psy starts a thread about AA, or Botched starts several. But when I introduce a well thought out argument about why AA is mainstream and fornits is considered extreme end of the treatment political spectrum, suddenly it's spam. When you start condemning people for posting disgusting pictures, or their own AA threads, or all the other bullshit that gets posted here I might just take you a little bit more seriously. But it's obvious that you are the one who is here to start an argument, and unload your AA hatred. If you think I am spamming this forum, the best action for you to take would be to ignore me. Not to spend so much time chopping up my posts and responding one line at a time. That must take some time, right? Surely you have better things to do, maybe like boating, beaches sun and fun or whatever. This is not AA advertising, but I know why you want to claim it is, then you can ban me by saying I'm an paid AA spammer or something. What a weak argument to make, come back when you got something better.

What a troll!

and your not. Were all trolls at some point.

[DannyB II]

(1) I take it that you are scared to be honest with your sponsor and the intergroup as you are in fear of what they may say to you.
2) Yes you do need permission if you are in fact a member of said fellowship. Denial of this would lead me to believe you have never studied your fellowships traditions

Whatever you say. You can report me to the AA elders if you wish, hopefully they will not burn me at the stake like the last person who made the mistake of discussing AA without he permission of the elders.

(3) I Have seen AA and NA meeting list on cars at bars before... So don't give me that...

Yet, I'm not the one doing it. If people want to get drunk, I could care less. If people want to go to AA and get sober, great, But I'm not going to spend my money and time trying to convince people with flyers on cars. I live and let live, unlike you.

Sorry Max that you do not respect your fellowship enough to abide by their "Traditions"

Tradition defined

a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.

I unlike you allow people to make their own decision about what they read in my fliers.. I do not stand there and try to push my belifs on them or try to persuade them to my way of thinking.. They have free will... They are not powerless.

BP, you are making a joke of yourself and your explanations of the steps and traditions is nothing more then someone drunk reciting the alphabet backwards. Just try listening for a while.

[Botched Programming]

Fuck you Danny.... You claim sobriety and probably banging heroine right now... Probably sucked dick for you fix faggot... and to beat it all is I do know a hell of alot more about the traditions than you will in your whole 2 seconds of sobriety, just ask your make believe sponsor.

[DannyB II]

At this point you have moved beyond making a logical argument, and into the realm of manipulation and assumptions, so there is nothing left to discuss it seems. I appreciate your pity, I really do. I live with myself quite contently, and have a clear conscience and sleep very well at night. I don't feel like I'm being ridiculous, and your attempt of emasculation with the last sentence is a typical manipulation when someone is lacking a legitimate argument. "If only you were a real man, you'd do this", how many times does this or a variant of this get put on the internet? There is no shortage of internet tough guys out there, that's for sure. I'll be here if you have an argument to make, or you can just keep making assumptions about me and what I need to do. It doesn't really bother me either way. People know when they are ready to have a mature and adult conversation minus the emotional hyperbole they can come to me.

Have a mature and adult conversation minus the emotional hyperbole with your sponsor about you bringing AA into public contraversy on an internet forum and then you can come back to me.

BP, your argument is a ridiculous insofar we are under control from a sponser. No wonder you left AA/NA. The AA/NA you speak of is horrible, I have never witnessed such a concept. "GO talk with your sponser, to get permission to speak freely on a website". What in gods name is wrong with you, BP.
I will make sure I stay out of Ocala, St. Pete-Tampa and other cities in your area.

[DannyB II]

Fuck you Danny.... You claim sobriety and probably banging heroine right now... Probably sucked dick for you fix faggot... and to beat it all is I do know a hell of alot more about the traditions than you will in your whole 2 seconds of sobriety, just ask your make believe sponsor.

Well, there is my sober one, attacking as usual. I guess I zeroed in on the truth.

[Botched Programming]

Fuck you Danny.... You claim sobriety and probably banging heroine right now... Probably sucked dick for you fix faggot... and to beat it all is I do know a hell of alot more about the traditions than you will in your whole 2 seconds of sobriety, just ask your make believe sponsor.

Well, there is my sober one, attacking as usual. I guess I zeroed in on the truth.

Yeah I am sober... better than being like you who is banging dope and is nothing but an internet tough guy who hides behind a keyboard..And the reason you you did not want to talk about being in the rings at Elan is because you got your ass kicked everytimre you were put in the ring.

[kirstin]

Fuck you Danny.... You claim sobriety and probably banging heroine right now... Probably sucked dick for you fix faggot... and to beat it all is I do know a hell of alot more about the traditions than you will in your whole 2 seconds of sobriety, just ask your make believe sponsor.

Well, there is my sober one, attacking as usual. I guess I zeroed in on the truth.

 :spam: :spam:

[Botched Programming]

I will make sure I stay out of Ocala, St. Pete-Tampa and other cities in your area.

Stay out of Florida and the whole state will thank you....Stay off the internet and the world will thank you !!!!

[DannyB11]

BP you may not know this but I learned true powerlessness at Elan. It set me free to do anything I wish. YOu see I am powerless over my behavior here just like I was when i dragged that girl behind my car at Elan. Powerless I tell you. BP you need to admit that you are a dope addict and powerless over every substance. Then when you perish, your soul will serve me as a slave in the afterlife. I have recruited many servants at AA meetings and I wont let you mess that up. I demand you cease the leafleting at meetings NOW!!!!
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny

[Botched Programming]

BP you may not know this but I learned true powerlessness at Elan. It set me free to do anything I wish. YOu see I am powerless over my behavior here just like I was when i dragged that girl behind my car at Elan. Powerless I tell you. BP you need to admit that you are a dope addict and powerless over every substance. Then when you perish, your soul will serve me as a slave in the afterlife. I have recruited many servants at AA meetings and I wont let you mess that up. I demand you cease the leafleting at meetings NOW!!!!
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny

You've recruited the minions from hell in AA meetings... LOL  :rocker:

[DannyB II]

BP you may not know this but I learned true powerlessness at Elan. It set me free to do anything I wish. YOu see I am powerless over my behavior here just like I was when i dragged that girl behind my car at Elan. Powerless I tell you. BP you need to admit that you are a dope addict and powerless over every substance. Then when you perish, your soul will serve me as a slave in the afterlife. I have recruited many servants at AA meetings and I wont let you mess that up. I demand you cease the leafleting at meetings NOW!!!!
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny

You've recruited the minions from hell in AA meetings... LOL  :rocker:

This is not me and you know this. Look at the avatar.