CEDU Deaths

[Che Gookin]

What's the death toll for CEDU programs?

How many people have ODed, suicided, or come to some other sort of bad end as a result of CEDU?

[try another castle]

As a result? Impossible to prove.

While attending? The one I know about is Avila, unsure if there are others.


I think the operative question is how many people who attended CEDU committed suicide, and if it deviates from the rest of the population.

Would also still be difficult to determine the causal relationship, as many kids who were put in placement suffered from legitimate mental illnesses such as depression/bipolar, etc. (points to self) Many might argue that its simply because they were troubled kids who became troubled adults. (regardless on whether or not the kid really had problems or it was the parents who were blowing things out of proportion.)

Point being, there are lots of variables. I still maintain that there should be a study of the industry as a whole, conducted by sociologists who are adept at discovering true causal relationships that are pretty airtight, as opposed to wild speculation. (such as "d&d causes teen suicides" etc.)

[Che Gookin]

Or, we can just ask, "How many people attended CEDU ended up commiting suicide or ODing later?"

I'm not a sociologist and as my background is in Anthropology I'm forced to despise such a lickspittle soft science. That and we kicked the Soc Departments asses four years running in the annual Soc/Anthro Softball Game.

[try another castle]

Or, we can just ask, "How many people attended CEDU ended up commiting suicide or ODing later?"

I think that's a great question.

I have no idea how to conduct research on such a thing. First, someone would have to get an enrollment estimate for CEDUs lifespan. Then collect data on suicides, etc. At least enough so a percentage can be established.

Im actually quite curious to know if its any different from american society at large.

[Che Gookin]

Well, I have something else in mind with the information. But I like where you are going with your question as it is an interesting one given the lifespan of CEDU.

[try another castle]

Someone could always get enrollment lists, if its available, and mail a survey to every single person asking "1. Are you dead? Y/N   2. If the answer to 1 was yes, please write brief description on cause of death"

[Ursus]

Three points:

1.) It is not necessary nor possible (in almost all cases) to prove a direct and concrete causal relationship between CEDU attendance and suicide. The operative phrase that would be used were this written up in a scientific paper is potentially "a factor in." CEDU being a factor in increased suicide rates is pahlenty bad enough, believe me.

2.) The critical time frame would not be during attendance, as presumably there would be more oversight during this time (but should be included anyway). Rather, the most critical time would be in the years immediately following CEDU attendance, when despair and depression set in without environmental controls, up to the late 20's or so. Why so long? 'Cuz that's about how long it takes for people's brains to mature out of the "act on impulse without regard for consequences" mode. Physiologically speaking, that is.

3.) Suicide attempts might also be included in the analysis.

[Anonymous]

As a result? Impossible to prove.

While attending? The one I know about is Avila, unsure if there are others.


I think the operative question is how many people who attended CEDU committed suicide, and if it deviates from the rest of the population.

Would also still be difficult to determine the causal relationship, as many kids who were put in placement suffered from legitimate mental illnesses such as depression/bipolar, etc. (points to self) Many might argue that its simply because they were troubled kids who became troubled adults. (regardless on whether or not the kid really had problems or it was the parents who were blowing things out of proportion.)

Point being, there are lots of variables. I still maintain that there should be a study of the industry as a whole, conducted by sociologists who are adept at discovering true causal relationships that are pretty airtight, as opposed to wild speculation. (such as "d&d causes teen suicides" etc.)

I get the feeling you are a covert CEDU supporter working for the cult in some way.

Yes. I can state unequivocally CEDU caused suicides. Like Straight caused suicides. .

[Anonymous]

Well, I have something else in mind with the information. But I like where you are going with your question as it is an interesting one given the lifespan of CEDU.

There is information about CEDU suicides I could send you.  I don’t know if I should because of potential…problems that could cause. Make no mistake about it, CEDU murdered.

[try another castle]

As a result? Impossible to prove.

While attending? The one I know about is Avila, unsure if there are others.


I think the operative question is how many people who attended CEDU committed suicide, and if it deviates from the rest of the population.

Would also still be difficult to determine the causal relationship, as many kids who were put in placement suffered from legitimate mental illnesses such as depression/bipolar, etc. (points to self) Many might argue that its simply because they were troubled kids who became troubled adults. (regardless on whether or not the kid really had problems or it was the parents who were blowing things out of proportion.)

Point being, there are lots of variables. I still maintain that there should be a study of the industry as a whole, conducted by sociologists who are adept at discovering true causal relationships that are pretty airtight, as opposed to wild speculation. (such as "d&d causes teen suicides" etc.)

I get the feeling you are a covert CEDU supporter working for the cult in some way.

Yes. I can state unequivocally CEDU caused suicides. Like Straight caused suicides. .

Damn, you sussed me.

Im assuming you are n00b.

Of course CEDU caused suicides.

What's your game plan on proving it? Airtight.

That's what Im talking about.

[Che Gookin]

Well, I have something else in mind with the information. But I like where you are going with your question as it is an interesting one given the lifespan of CEDU.

There is information about CEDU suicides I could send you.  I don’t know if I should because of potential…problems that could cause. Make no mistake about it, CEDU murdered.

my email is in my signature.

send away and your identity is my secret to the grave.

[Anonymous]

2 or 3 student suicides on campus.  1 or 2 suicides after their wonderful Cedu experience.  1 staff member shot himself, Kim Quigly?

A couple of drug overdoses after graduation.

2 or 3 missing students that hopefully aren't dead.

Great work, Cedu.  

Oh, and I thought I'd pass this shit on to you...................

http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/190

Amazing that there are still those that loved Cedu.   :beat:

[try another castle]

Hell, man. There are still people from the people's temple who love Jimmy boy. (I couldnt believe it myself.)

About as literal as you can get when coining the term "survivor".

Oh FUCK. I think I missed the larry king interview with Linda Kasabian. (One of the manson girls.)

King and a manson girl. Who is more looney tunes? My vote's on Larry.

[RMA Survivor]

When I went to RMA between 1984-1986, we were told that one student, shortly after graduation committed suicide.  I knew him, his name was Bailey.  

Another student I went to school with came in as an alcoholic.  He graduated about three months before I did.  He was drinking severely the moment he got home.  When I went to live with him out in Colorado for about a year he was drinking on average of a gallon of hard alcohol and half a keg of beer every day.  Which is an incredible amount.  He drank from the moment he woke up till the moment he passed out.  It was unreal to watch.  RMA sure didn't help.

I know of at least seven students who were there when I was who went right back to using drugs, some heavily as soon as they got home.

And there was another student named something-Rensler who killed himself a few years back.  At least I think he did.

But I think such a study should include a sort of "success rate" assessment.  I know from bumping in to or hearing about dozens of students over the years that many were never able to find much success.  None of those I heard about completed college, all bounced from job to job for years despite many having very wealthy and connected parents.  None of the ones I know are married, none have kids, none have families.  And I think all of them maintained the same troubled relationship with their parents that they had when they went to RMA.  

From my experience, RMA didn't just keep kids in the same rut they were before going there, the program weakened kids so much they were unable to really progress when they left.  For many the lack of an education really hurt them.  Parents not being updated up progress made, or helping to build trust with parents meant that at graduation the parents felt their kids were the same as before.  No actual drug treatment or alcohol treatment programs, just a setting where kids had no access or limited access.  Thus the desire to use substances was not removed through therapy, only access was removed.  So kids were likely to use or abuse again when given the chance or exposure, and they did.  

Some made it, but I think most did not.  And whether you are talking about generally failing or actually killing yourself, success is success.  Suicide is just the highest form of failure, not the only kind.

[Loli]

You really can't tabulate the suicide count accurately.   CEDU trauma can fester for a long time before one pulls the trigger. And then you have to factor in to the equation all those who tried and failed.  After CEDU, it takes awhile for the kool aid to wear off and you realize the whole thing was one big emotional clusterfuck. You get out thinking you know it all, and it's quite a comedown to realize NONE of the "special" tools are applicable to real life... and you were stunted from the normative emotional and developmental experiences that help direct you into maturity... not to the mention that you have to somehow scramble to make up for the lack of educational  growth. Even then, you might still believe its the world not you and all your "special" tools... until you finally crash and burn and realize you were just a kool aid drinking fool.

Yep.