My son at Aspen Ranch

[Troll Control]

That's just TheWho, aka John Reuben of STICC, an Aspen feeder group.  

Anyway, he is a parent and sent both of his kids to highly abusive programs based on CEDU (ASR and HLA).  

His kid that went to ASR shot himself so full of dope that he died.  

His other son suffered through the decline and death of his mother while incarcerated at HLA where he was denied contact with her in her dying days and he has actually said publicly that he believes his dad (John Reuben, TheWho) was complicit in and responsible for his mother's death.

So, to recap:  2 kids, both in abusive programs, one dead from an overdose, the other estranged from his father and believing his father killed his mother.  This is what John, aka TheWho, calls a "success story" and now he markets the program family resposible for destroying his children for cash kickbacks.[/u]

[TheWho]

Let me ask you this: does the program encourage you to tell your son that he is not coming home until he learns to "follow the program"? Is it possible that coaching is just as much as getting you to commit to the program as it is about removing any hope from your son?

WOW, Thats a loaded question.  Of course the program is going to encourage the parent to keep the kid focused on the program.  How effective would it be if the parent said “Aw, just hang in there, dont follow the rules if you dont want to, they sound stupid”.... any therapist would encourage the parent to keep the child focused whether it be school work, or a job.  They would never encourage a parent or child to undermine the school system.

Either way you look at it. If he's not making progress in the program what's the point of keeping him there? I guarantee he'll be grateful at the very least if you take him out.

This I agree with.  He will be very grateful if you take him out.  But what has changed that will prevent him from going right back to his old ways?  How will this help him?  How do you determine this?  Whats the next step if he becomes a danger to himself again?  The program will not take him back knowing that the parent may pull him again at any time.  No schools would do this except public schools and that is because they have to.

[Troll Control]

That's just TheWho, aka John Reuben of STICC, an Aspen feeder group.  

Anyway, he is a parent and sent both of his kids to highly abusive programs based on CEDU (ASR and HLA).  

His kid that went to ASR shot himself so full of dope that he died.  

His other son suffered through the decline and death of his mother while incarcerated at HLA where he was denied contact with her in her dying days and he has actually said publicly that he believes his dad (John Reuben, TheWho) was complicit in and responsible for his mother's death.

So, to recap:  2 kids, both in abusive programs, one dead from an overdose, the other estranged from his father and believing his father killed his mother.  This is what John, aka TheWho, calls a "success story" and now he markets the program family resposible for destroying his children for cash kickbacks.[/u]

QFT.  John Reuben doesn't like his actual story to be told.  It interferes with his commission schedule.  

Nigel, be aware the the single supporter encouraging you considers 'success' to be a completely broken, half-dead 'family unit.'  You should approach his advice warily.

[TheWho]

That's just TheWho, aka John Reuben of STICC, an Aspen feeder group.  

Anyway, he is a parent and sent both of his kids to highly abusive programs based on CEDU (ASR and HLA).  

His kid that went to ASR shot himself so full of dope that he died.  

His other son suffered through the decline and death of his mother while incarcerated at HLA where he was denied contact with her in her dying days and he has actually said publicly that he believes his dad (John Reuben, TheWho) was complicit in and responsible for his mother's death.

So, to recap:  2 kids, both in abusive programs, one dead from an overdose, the other estranged from his father and believing his father killed his mother.  This is what John, aka TheWho, calls a "success story" and now he markets the program family resposible for destroying his children for cash kickbacks.[/u]

Nigel, I forgot to mention that he was also involved in plotting the 911 attacks.  The guy is whacked.  He is currently posting from Iraq trying to form an Aspen wilderness program to kill off his other kids.

[AuntieEm2]

Warning Signs of Abusive Residential Programs
From ASTART, the Alliance for the Safe, Therapeutic and Approriate use of Residential Treatment, housed at the University of South Florida Department of Child and Family Studies. See their fact sheet at http://http://astart.fmhi.usf.edu/AStartDocs/factsheet.pdf
Auntie Em

ASTART recommends that you beware of residential programs that:
1. Are not state-licensed and accredited with regard to all 3 aspects of the program: the (1) educational, (2) mental/behavioral health and (3) residential components.
2. Claim to be able to assess your child and make program recommendations by internet or by phone and then urge you to “act now” to  prevent serious harm to your child and family.
3. Recommend or support the use of private “escort” or “transport” services to take your child to the program.
4. Do not respect the wisdom and expertise of parents and youth:
• Do not allow your family and child to visit the program, see all the facilities and meet all the staff before deciding to admit your child.
• Tell you to expect that your child will lie to you while in the program, and encourage you not to believe reports of abuse because these will be “attempts at manipulation.”
• Do not encourage you as parents to be active participants throughout all stages of the program.
• Do not welcome feedback (praise or criticism) from your child regarding the program.
5. Restrict youth & family rights in terms of:
• Contact with family by phone, mail and in person (for example, no phone contact or visits for first month; censored mail; monitored visits with no opportunities for parent/child discussion in private).
• Dress code (for example: require youth to wear jumpsuits or flip-flops).
• Typical age-appropriate behavior (for example: forbid eye contact with youth of the opposite sex; forbid speaking, smiling, or moving without permission).
• Parental rights (for example: do not contact parents immediately in the case of illness, injury, emergency or treatment/medication changes).
• Do not provide hotlines for youth and families to call at any time if they feel that their rights are being violated or they are being  mistreated.
6. Use harsh and excessive discipline practices that include: seclusion, restraint, corporal punishment, punitive “behavioral modification,”  fear tactics, humiliation, peer-on-peer discipline / peer pressure, forced labor, heightened physiological stress (for example, excessive exercise, sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, forced retention of bodily waste or nutritional deprivation) or sedation by medication.

[try another castle]

That's just TheWho,

And you're his whore.


You people are so pathetic. Congratulations on being pwned so much by a troll.

[Troll Control]

That's just TheWho, aka John Reuben of STICC, an Aspen feeder group.  

Anyway, he is a parent and sent both of his kids to highly abusive programs based on CEDU (ASR and HLA).  

His kid that went to ASR shot himself so full of dope that he died.  

His other son suffered through the decline and death of his mother while incarcerated at HLA where he was denied contact with her in her dying days and he has actually said publicly that he believes his dad (John Reuben, TheWho) was complicit in and responsible for his mother's death.

So, to recap:  2 kids, both in abusive programs, one dead from an overdose, the other estranged from his father and believing his father killed his mother.  This is what John, aka TheWho, calls a "success story" and now he markets the program family resposible for destroying his children for cash kickbacks.[/u]

Nigel, I forgot to mention that he was also involved in plotting the 911 attacks.  The guy is whacked.  He is currently posting from Iraq trying to form an Aspen wilderness program to kill off his other kids.

Again, TheWho posting above.  However, you should note that he did not deny any of the facts presented, he only tried to make them look ridiculous by throwing out a red herring, as his 'story' has already been told here so he can't deny previously admitting these things - too late for that.  It tells a lot about a person when they do this.  

Regardless of how he tries to spin, TheWho is a program pimp, Aspen feeder, kickback/referral taker, father to a dead son who wasn't helped by Aspen and overdosed, and head of a broken, dysfunctional household in which his remaining son blames TheWho directly for the death of his wife.  

And the worst part?  He wants to 'help' your family like he did his. :poison:  :suicide:

[try another castle]

ok. I see where this is going. im outta here.


later, losers.  :twofinger:

[TheWho]

Nigel, I forgot to mention that he was also involved in plotting the 911 attacks.  The guy is whacked.  He is currently posting from Iraq trying to form an Aspen wilderness program to kill off his other kids.

Again, TheWho posting above.  However, you should note that he did not deny any of the facts presented, he only tried to make them look ridiculous by throwing out a red herring, as his 'story' has already been told here so he can't deny previously admitting these things - too late for that.  It tells a lot about a person when they do this.  

Regardless of how he tries to spin, TheWho is a program pimp, Aspen feeder, kickback/referral taker, father to a dead son who wasn't helped by Aspen and overdosed, and head of a broken, dysfunctional household in which his remaining son blames TheWho directly for the death of his wife.  

And the worst part?  He wants to 'help' your family like he did his. :poison:  :suicide:

Again that last post wasnt mine, this is one of his tricks, trying to imitate me and my style of writing (I always use the word irregardless not regardless).  Thewho is trying to make me look bad by posting those suicide smilies, which everyone who reads here often enough knows I dont use.  Notice he didnt try to deny his hand in the 911 attacks and the fact that he is trying to get a program started in Iraq, but instead attacked me.   His sole purpose is to deny his past and try to make me look bad.  Is this the type of guy you want looking after your kid?

[Troll Control]

His sole purpose is to deny his past and try to make me look bad.

Yes, it is true that you do this, Whooter, but it's not your sole purpose.  You are also here to rope in dumbasses like the OP to Aspen programs, regardless of the damage to your own family Aspen caused.

Is this the type of guy you want looking after your kid?

No, certainly not.  Anyone taking advice from you is necessarily dumber than you and that's pretty dumb.

[TheWho]

^^TheWho^^  Talking to himself again.

[NIGEL]

Hi again,  Today's phone call with my son was tough.  He is feeling like he can't make his way through the "levels" that Aspen Ranch has set up.  He feels like one of his therapists hates him and will hold him back.  He doesn't see the value in any of this.  I am doing my best to listen to him and give him my point of view on why I think he should try to work with everyone there and give it his best shot.  The reasons he gave as to why he can't progress through the system are the same reasons he gave at home in regards to school.  My son always feels that people hate him, and therefore they hold him back and evaluate him incorrectly.  He sounded pretty depressed.  I told him I loved him and that we would talk again next week.  I then wrote him a letter (I write every day) and made sure he knew that I had heard everything he had said and I let him know that I don't discount everything he says (he has claimed this before).  Our next visit is in early October.  If I thought bringing him home right now would work, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I feel like everything would be back to what it was before.  I am still evaluating the whole program and am hoping (and wishing) that things improve.  I will post again next week.

[psy]

Hi again,  Today's phone call with my son was tough.  He is feeling like he can't make his way through the "levels" that Aspen Ranch has set up.  He feels like one of his therapists hates him and will hold him back.  He doesn't see the value in any of this.  I am doing my best to listen to him and give him my point of view on why I think he should try to work with everyone there and give it his best shot.  The reasons he gave as to why he can't progress through the system are the same reasons he gave at home in regards to school.  My son always feels that people hate him, and therefore they hold him back and evaluate him incorrectly.

So there isn't any possibility at all he could be telling the truth this time?  Well.  If you're not willing to listen to your son who is echoing some of the very same things warned about here...  I wish there was something more I could say.  It's like watching somebody make a big mistake, trying to talk them out of it, and failing over and over.  It's a bit depressing, honestly.  I wish there was some way to transfer what I know about programs into your head.  Until that technology exists, all I can hope for is that you keep and open mind and listen to what some on this forum have to say... not necessarily all... just keep an open mind.  Above all listen to your son.

He sounded pretty depressed.  I told him I loved him and that we would talk again next week.  I then wrote him a letter (I write every day) and made sure he knew that I had heard everything he had said and I let him know that I don't discount everything he says (he has claimed this before).

You say you don't discount everything and yet it's exactly what I see you doing...  and I'm pretty sure he sees it too.  Sooner or later he's going to lose faith in you and that's not something you'll ever get back.  Out of those on Fornits who are in a decent talking relationship with their parents, I doubt any of them actually trust their parents anymore, at least not to the extent they did before the program.

... And once he looses faith that you'll believe what he says, he'll stop trying, and that's the real point: to make him believe that the only way out is to comply with the program.  What you can expect now if you continue the way you're going is this:  eventually your son is going to stop complaining to you and start blindly trusting the program (since it's the only other way out... or so he'll think).  He'll probably start saying he loves it there and the staff are all wonderful and so forth.

This will be followed by a few months of relative stability.  During this phase he'll probably come forth with confessions of things he didn't actually do or exaggerated problems (occasional pot smoking becomes an "addiction"...  he might admit to doing drugs he never did).  His counselors will coach him to confess these things on the phone or will otherwise relay them to you. He'll do this partially because he believes it and partially because he knows it's what the program wants.  Unfortunately for him, it'll also make you think "oh my god...  i never realized he had these problems.. he definitely cant' come home" (which is exactly what the program wants and why they do this).  If he's lucky, he'll be one of the "chosen ones"** ("marks" allowed to "win the game" for marketing purposes) and will proceed to graduation (but don't worry, he'll blow up shortly after getting home).  If he's not (the more plausible explanation), and the program intends on keeping him indefinitely for the money, and he realizes this, he'll blow up at that point, start rebelling against the program and so forth.  They'll take away privileges and kick him back to level 1/phase 1/whatever aspen calls it.  This process will repeat itself until you either run out of money or he manages to do something incredible for which the program will kick him out (act of extreme desperation).

It's hard to describe exactly how this con is run to somebody who hasn't been exactly in the middle of it, but I'm hoping you're smarter than the average parent and can read up on how other programs have operated.  Kathy Moya who studies this issue ran an article a while back called "understanding the con game":

http://troubled-teen-industry.com/news/ ... e-con-game

You might also want to read my article:

http://troubled-teen-industry.com/news/ ... to-parents

Our next visit is in early October.  If I thought bringing him home right now would work, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I feel like everything would be back to what it was before.

Or he could be grateful enough for taking him out that he'd be willing to act more in a way that pleases you (if not for any reason other than he'd be afraid of getting sent back or to another program.

I am still evaluating the whole program and am hoping (and wishing) that things improve.  I will post again next week.

Look forward to it.  At some point you're going to come back to this thread and wish you did things differently.  I can all but guarantee it.  It's just a matter of time.

** "The confidence trickster often works with one or more accomplices called shills, who help manipulate the mark into accepting the con man's plan. In a traditional confidence trick, the mark is led to believe that he will be able to win money or some other prize by doing some task. The accomplices may pretend to be random strangers who have benefited from successfully performing the task."

[Oscar]

I guess that you consider your son to be a smart guy. At some point he starts talking to the other kids and learn how to move up in levels by confessing something. Be prepared for a surprise because in such an environment the kids borrow problems from each other. It doesn't have to be a bad thing because later in life when he is at a work place he need how to duck and please the boss so he can move up in ranks.

But if he starts to believe that he has the confessed issues then he will have a problem.

All programs state that there are 4 ways the teenagers can use to manipulate themselves home but in your sons case it sounds that it could be a real illness. Depression can be deadly if not treated correct. Is he monitored 24/7? Can they simulate the safety of a in-patient hospital unit?

AEG have lost one child in the wilderness program they run in this area. He was able to hang himselves back in 2007. He was also depressed because he had lost a brother.

[TheWho]

AEG have lost one child in the wilderness program they run in this area. He was able to hang himselves back in 2007. He was also depressed because he had lost a brother.

Oscar, How is this statement even relevant?  Lots of kids kill themselves, 1,000’s every year.  We cant just avoid every place where this occurs.  Kids die at home mostly, so what should we do not allow kids to stay at home so they will be safer?  Kick them all out?
Not sure what the point is.  Statistics show that kids are much more safe in programs than they are at home or in public schools.