Author Topic: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey  (Read 16126 times)

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Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2009, 01:16:09 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TigerEye"
Quote from: "Guest"
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OK, then. We have confirmed that CALO takes deeply disturbed kids like arsonists who are dangers to themselves and their families. Just wanted to get that cleared up so we can talk about CALO's population more intelligently.

Do they mix in more-or-less normal kids with the dangerous ones like your boy? Or is there a general population and some sort of special housing unit where they keep the really bad ones?

This is all any parent needs to know.  Dangerous population, mixed together, living together and untrained, uneducated "coaches" facilitating "therapy."  I'd run from this place.  This "treatment model" is crazy!

For those of you 'who' haven't noticed yet, "TigerEye" is not a CALO parent.

Right. Alot you know! Read back, knucklebrain.
And btw, what is "normal," anyway? Are YOU "normal?"
And for the purposes of argument, why would you case so much about my identity?

Well, because it speaks to your motive for defending the indefensible.  Once more, you are asking us to believe two mutually exclusive pieces of information:  One, that your kid is so dangerously deranged that he would be appropriately placed in a lock-down psych ward or in prison (your words, not mine); and two, that CALO is a safe environment, free from dangerous attendees (Ken Huey's words, not mine).

Obviously, your kid a is dangerous.  Arson is a dangerous crime with a potential for many fatalities in dorm-style housing.  It also happens to be very, very highly correlated with sexual abusers.  Considering that CALO accepts these very dangerous types, it's hard to reconcile why any parent would send a "struggling teen" there, as it seems to be populated with dangerous and potentially deadly offenders.

I just want you to characterize CALO fairly.  It cannot be both a safe environment for struggling teens and suitable for kids who belong in prison or lock-down psych wards, as you stated your kid does.  

I'm just pointing out your logical fallacies here.  Don't shoot the messenger.


"deranged?"  
 :rasta:
I never said my kid "belonged " in prison or a psych ward. I said that is where he would have ended up. My child is a good kid who needs the kind of environment and the help that CALO offers. Like it or not...

And the correlation is between firesetting behavior in kids and being a VICTIM of sexual abuse, physical abuse or neglect, fyi.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2009, 01:18:31 AM »
Quote
(1) Did Ken Huey explain to you that PCS incorporates "bent wrist control methods with variations."
(2) Did you ask questions about consequences for rule violations?
(3) Did you discuss staff credentials with Ken Huey?
(4) Did you speak with students who were recently enrolled at CALO?
(5) Did you tour the entire campus when you enrolled your son at CALO?
(6) Did you eat a meal with your son to see how staff interacted with students?
(7) Did you ask questions about crisis intervention training and appropriate restraint techniques/procedures?
(8) Did you ask for CALO's business license number and verify it with the appropriate state agency?
(9) Did you speak with the appropriate state agency to see if they received complaints about physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexual abuse?
(10) Did you walk through the dorm your son would be living in?
(11) I don't 'know if you're aware but Ken Huey, Landon Kirk, Caleb Cottle, and Nicole Fuglsang worked at abusive programs. Do you see this as a red flag?
RE: (12) viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27810

If you did your homework, you would be able to answer the above questions within 10 minutes.  Why are you avoiding them?  I was told "Because your motives are dishonest. You have already made up your mind about me and now you are looking for more ammunition in order to condemn me. I am not accountable to you, Bob".  The name of the  person who sent me that message will not be revealed.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 02:17:40 AM by Anonymous »

Offline M_Hilton

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2009, 01:42:15 AM »
Quote from: "TigerEye"
You guys have totally lost me...I don't know what the hell you are talking about on this thread anymore...Let's see, earlier somebody said that kids shouldn't be sent to residential unless they are dangerous to themselves or others. I responded that in my kid's case, and in most cases at this RTC that was true. Then I explained that "dangerous" in terms of behavior in the general outside world is different than what might be expected in a controlled, therapeutic environment. The community resources, the parents, the schools can't keep these kids (or themselves) safe.
Then somebody said that "dangerous" kids like mine should be kept separate from the "normal" ones. Then nobody could define normal. Then there was a lot of speculation about who I am, why I don't answer all of the "pointed" questions with which bobpeterson would like to pin me against the wall, since I am supposedly such an evil bitch of a parent. And then it was that either Ken or I were lying.

WTF! I have lost interest in this supposed "dialogue"...

what there saying is if your kid was doing the things you said he and others like him should be held apart from other kids how may not have as severe issues
this is some thing i have always had an issue with the public "special ed" system they put the kids with learning disablitys in with the kids that act out
and being some one that in that i can say it wasnt for the better

CALO and other programs have also said they will not take kid/teens with severe issues like the ones you said so this also brings up questions if they really can deal with it other then brute force

then theres the issue one size fits all again if they ARE taking kids like that then the kids there for other things on a more emotional level are going to get screwed in a VERY restrictive setting that may not be right for them

Lastly are there daily staff trained to deal with some one like your son which looking at there site i dont think they are; most are just "kids them selves out of high school
i know i wouldnt want some bestbuy rejects "helping" my kid god know what issues they could add on top of every thing else

bottom line it seems ether you didnt really look in to the place or were lied to or some of both ether way if i were you i would rethink your sons placement
even jail or lock down mental ward is better becouse then HE HAS RIGHTS THAT HE DOESNT HAVE AT A PROGRAM
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Offline Revenge Fantasy

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2009, 01:50:50 AM »
Quote from: "bobpeterson1973"
Quote
(1) Did Ken Huey explain to you that PCS incorporates "bent wrist control methods with variations."
(2) Did you ask questions about consequences for rule violations?
(3) Did you discuss staff credentials with Ken Huey?
(4) Did you speak with students who were recently enrolled at CALO?
(5) Did you tour the entire campus when you enrolled your son at CALO?
(6) Did you eat a meal with your son to see how staff interacted with students?
(7) Did you ask questions about crisis intervention training and appropriate restraint techniques/procedures?
(8) Did you ask for CALO's business license number and verify it with the appropriate state agency?
(9) Did you speak with the appropriate state agency to see if they received complaints about physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexual abuse?
(10) Did you walk through the dorm your son would be living in?
(11) I don't 'know if you're aware but Ken Huey, Landon Kirk, Caleb Cottle, and Nicole Fuglsang worked at abusive programs. Do you see this as a red flag?
RE: (12) viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27810

If you did your homework, you would be able to answer the above questions within 10 minutes.  Why are you avoiding them?  I was told "Because your motives are dishonest. You have already made up your mind about me and now you are looking for more ammunition in order to condemn me. I am not accountable to you, Bob".  The name of the  person who sent me that message will not be revealed.

Tiger Eye avoids the substantive issues but did make time to add a tongue in cheek quip to the chat strand. Way to represent Mama.

(12:01:08) Deprogrammed: 717097 obviously has a napoleon complex
(13:14:19) psy: "go buy yourself a sportscar to overcompensate, you tool" LOLOLOLOL
(13:46:09) (773384): LOLOL!
(13:48:38) unmentionable: psy are you there?
(13:49:58) unmentionable: you there psy?
(14:12:14) psy: sure aim me at psy2k6
(14:12:49) psy: sure. i'll start it up. my yahoo is [email protected]
(15:04:22) (852062): nonsense, everyone knows hummers are the compensator of choice
(17:09:50) (151401): Any mention of hummers will result in a closeted troll suddenly having to wipe down it’s key board
(21:58:25) TigerEye: haha - did u know that there is supposedly a Hummer Hybrid?  
:o
  Who’s going to pm Ken Huey to let him know what a piss poor spokes person he has?
 He’s better off on his own offering some explanation for CALO’s questionable treatments.
;)
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Offline M_Hilton

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2009, 01:51:57 AM »
Quote from: "TigerEye"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TigerEye"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
OK, then. We have confirmed that CALO takes deeply disturbed kids like arsonists who are dangers to themselves and their families. Just wanted to get that cleared up so we can talk about CALO's population more intelligently.

Do they mix in more-or-less normal kids with the dangerous ones like your boy? Or is there a general population and some sort of special housing unit where they keep the really bad ones?

This is all any parent needs to know.  Dangerous population, mixed together, living together and untrained, uneducated "coaches" facilitating "therapy."  I'd run from this place.  This "treatment model" is crazy!

For those of you 'who' haven't noticed yet, "TigerEye" is not a CALO parent.

Right. Alot you know! Read back, knucklebrain.
And btw, what is "normal," anyway? Are YOU "normal?"
And for the purposes of argument, why would you case so much about my identity?

Well, because it speaks to your motive for defending the indefensible.  Once more, you are asking us to believe two mutually exclusive pieces of information:  One, that your kid is so dangerously deranged that he would be appropriately placed in a lock-down psych ward or in prison (your words, not mine); and two, that CALO is a safe environment, free from dangerous attendees (Ken Huey's words, not mine).

Obviously, your kid a is dangerous.  Arson is a dangerous crime with a potential for many fatalities in dorm-style housing.  It also happens to be very, very highly correlated with sexual abusers.  Considering that CALO accepts these very dangerous types, it's hard to reconcile why any parent would send a "struggling teen" there, as it seems to be populated with dangerous and potentially deadly offenders.

I just want you to characterize CALO fairly.  It cannot be both a safe environment for struggling teens and suitable for kids who belong in prison or lock-down psych wards, as you stated your kid does.  

I'm just pointing out your logical fallacies here.  Don't shoot the messenger.


"deranged?"  
 :rasta:
I never said my kid "belonged " in prison or a psych ward. I said that is where he would have ended up. My child is a good kid who needs the kind of environment and the help that CALO offers. Like it or not...

And the correlation is between firesetting behavior in kids and being a VICTIM of sexual abuse, physical abuse or neglect, fyi.
"Let's see, some of the things that contributed to the placement decision were fire-setting (he was facing criminal charges when he was placed), violent threats against school personnel, self-harm, drug use and drug sales, truancy, theft, non-compliance with curfew, etc. I suspect it is never an easy decision to place a child residentially, but there you are - my kid was a threat to himself and others, including the family."

i believe you posted that did you not?
imo id let the kid end up in jail for a night or two might do some good
but it put a kid like that in with non-violent kids wow do you know harm he could do to THEM physical and mentally?
or is it not your problem any more and you have wiped your hands of it after leaving your son with from what i can people you know very little about?
did you ever stop to think what he could do to some one elses son or daughter?

this is why we question most programs they lump kids like your son who are CLEARLY violent with non-violent kids with out thinking about harm this can bring
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Offline Revenge Fantasy

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2009, 01:58:14 AM »
Quote from: "kenhuey"
Going forward I want to make clear my hopes for this post. Simply, I wish to present what CALO is. I also am willing to have respectful dialogue. I do not expect to have all those who read what I write to agree with me but I do expect to stay out of screaming matches. I don't really want to participate in vulgar exchanges and will choose to avoid them. If we can have a discussion and I am convinced that open sharing of ideas is the real purpose, I am on board.
We’re still waiting for you to quit obfuscating. FYI,Try a few non circular answers that don’t involve a link to the psycho-hyperbolic site of your program.
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Offline Revenge Fantasy

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2009, 02:14:53 AM »
Quick quote:Tiger Eye, what's your response to this? Does CALO accept dangerous children (you said yours was an arsonist, I believe)? How about court-ordered kids? What about convicted felons?

Quick quote:I dunno - you should ask CALO. My son, in a controlled environment, is not dangerous to himself or others. The wilderness program was worried about the fire issue (!) but in the end, his counselors correctly concluded that it would not be an issue there.-Tiger Eye

Tiger eye,
Why didn’t you make these inquiries of CALO, before sending them your child?  In the time since this question was posed to you, have you bothered to find out?
Your kid is still there right? Wouldn’t it behoove you as a loving parent to know who your child is being held with?
Have you (as any vigilant parent would) investigated the available information on the previous employment histories of CALO staff et al? They are known to have worked with abusive programs.
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2009, 03:39:46 AM »
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I realize in speaking as a program director here I start out at an immediate disadvantage.  I urge you to put aside your prejudices for a moment and give me the chance to present my case.  I realize many of you here have been hurt and many of you are angry but not all program directors are the same.  Not all programs are the same.  To judge me evil-intended or to judge CALO as somehow abusive--without knowing CALO and without hearing me out--is no better than the lack of due process and the prejudice many of you complain about when decrying residential treatment for teens .
Quote from: "kenhuey"
Going forward I want to make clear my hopes for this post. Simply, I wish to present what CALO is. I also am willing to have respectful dialogue. I do not expect to have all those who read what I write to agree with me but I do expect to stay out of screaming matches. I don't really want to participate in vulgar exchanges and will choose to avoid them. If we can have a discussion and I am convinced that open sharing of ideas is the real purpose, I am on board.
Just in case the Director missed following up on this exchange amidst the Tiger Eye divergence...
Quote from: "Inculcated"
Quote from: "kenhuey"
Quote from: "Inculcated"
On the controversial topic of Attachment Therapy, what specifically does CALO’S application of this treatment entail?
The best description of our overall model can be found here:

http://caloteens.com/therapeuticModel.aspx

I think you are asking if we do rebirthing and "rib stimulation" and such. No, we do not use provoking techniques meant to force a teen to attach with us.
For an answer to my initial question posed to you, I followed the link you provided.

 1. Please describe how the highlighted intervention methods are implemented.

(From your site)"Below are some interventions and concepts that are hallmarks of our work during Trust of Control"
•   P.L.A.C.E. (Playful, Loving, Accepting, Curios, and Empathetic)
•   Connection-Break-Repair (cycle of a healthy relationship)
•   Vulnerability
•   Rhythm Control
•   Transferable Attachment (using canines)
•   Cycles/Patterns
•   Closeness vs. consequence
•   Time-in vs. Time-out
•   Emotional “holding” (figurative not literal holding)....figurative holding?
•   Acceptance during exploration
•   Healing from past
•   Core beliefs
•   Give students permission to feel without violence
•   Shame (person) vs. Guilt (behavior)
•   Modeling
•   Accept students on their level (emotional, mental, spiritual, etc.)
•   Safe touch

 2. When are children under your care allowed to assert their boundaries?

“Training is an immediate part of the job. Each week on Wednesday, we have a new employee training and an all-staff training immediately afterwards. Training topics include CPR, First Aid, therapeutic hold techniques, clinical interventions, our model, how to be more effective, etc.” (also from your site)

 3.Will you elaborate on the topic of therapeutic hold techniques?
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Offline kenhuey

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2009, 01:14:30 PM »
My original post seems to have generated a lot of response. In sorting through the most apparently sincere posts I have identified what I believe are some main themes of disagreement that many of you might have with CALO: 1) forced treatment, 2) holds, 3) communication, 4) “attack” groups or groups led incorrectly, 5) my work history, and 6) type of student at CALO. I have also come to the conclusion that these issues are in many cases not resolvable. I will still deal with them today but I am beginning to doubt my ability to answer all questions in a final and satisfactory way. With no offense intended, I am afraid there are some who are unwilling or unable to hear my answers. I will talk more about that at the end of this post. For now, let me address the themes named above.

Theme 1--Many have tackled the idea that CALO enrolls kids in treatment against their will. What would we do if a kid ran from CALO? What would we do if a teen refused to go to CALO during a CALO-led transport? Can teens leave CALO when they want?

Response to theme 1—Kids are not given the same rights as adults in the United States. They are not allowed to drink until 21. They are not allowed to vote until 18. They cannot drive until 16 in most states. We all have different age markers based on adult beliefs about what those age groups can handle. I believe that teens should not have complete authority to make any decision about their lives that they wish. They do not have the requisite maturity to take on the world in this way. Especially when a teen is evidencing poor behavioral and emotional regulation, I do not trust that teen to make decisions of, at times, life and death. I believe that adults around such teens are duty-bound to intervene in such cases. In general, that option of adult intervention without permission of the teen ends at 18. That is the partially arbitrary age that many states have set for consent. In general, I agree with that age and support statute and law as currently written. Some teens would refuse to be in treatment even though they do need it. We support that treatment. All things being equal, we prefer to have kids bought-in from the outset but that is not always possible. A suicidal teen does not get to choose death in our program. A kid running from home and putting themselves in dangerous circumstances of all sorts should not be able to continue that misguided behavior. A young person skipping school and huffing gasoline should not have the opportunity to kill enough brain cells to permanently alter their future. Again, we prefer to have kids walk into CALO and desire to stay until they are doing well enough to go home. That is not always possible and we have no moral dilemma with giving minors the care they need to improve their lives—even if it is against their will.

Theme 2—Why Positive Control Systems and why do holds at all?

Response to theme 2--Positive Control Systems uses bent wrist controls if a situation escalates to the extent that a hold is needed. We tried numerous other de-escalation systems before deciding permanently on PCS. We have administration trained in MANDT, CALM, NCI, and one other private facility system that is not publicly available. We moved to PCS because it was nationally certified and recognized, it could be initiated by one staff member in a pinch at the outset (a second staff joins the first staff), it was less traumatizing for our population, and it had a much better track record than other systems. Compared to other de-escalation systems, the statistics bear out that PCS is a much safer intervention. Injuries per hold were much better with PCS. As for the re-traumatization issue, we were not impressed with systems that called for 3 or 4 staff to restrain a kid. Chest compressions can become a problem and just the sheer number of staff involved is frightening. We saw flashbacks with other systems that we do not see with PCS.

Our holds are done for safety. When a teen is a threat to self or others, we de-escalate first and then progress to a hold if necessary. The holds are all documented and are now debriefed with the CEO for training. If you know of a de-escalation system that is superior to PCS I would be very glad to know of it. I mean that sincerely.

Theme 3—Do kids have access to phones to call in a complaint about their treatment? Do kids have their phone calls monitored?

Response to theme 3--We do not provide a phone for students to call in complaints. To date, we have been concerned about frivolous use of such a phone and we have not been able to figure out a way around that problem. As for monitoring calls, we do have a staff member in our large conference room where we have 3 or 4 phone calls going on. The staff member is there for safety as those calls can get emotional at times. Teens are not directed to avoid difficult issues on calls or told to keep ANYTHING secret. They are free to complain if they wish. If a staff member did hear that (sometimes they do but not always) s/he will inform the therapist who can then check in with parents. Parents and students are free to escalate concerns to therapists and administration if desired. I have an open-door policy and on occasion students have taken that opportunity and made complaints about program issues. Those conversations have many times been the genesis of course correction within our organization. I implicitly and explicitly invite these conversations. Such a conversation could and has led to an employee termination. We take allegations of treatment that is not in line with our model very seriously. We even go so far as to tell parents and teens how to file a complaint against us if they don’t feel we are dealing with them in good faith. We have that invitation in written materials for teens and parents and on our web site.

Theme 4—Are groups “attack” based? Are they always led by a therapist?

Response to theme 4--We seem to be getting hung up on semantics with words like “accountability” and even the word “groups.”  It is hard to get a clear picture for the reader of what our gatherings (that are not led by a therapist) even look like. They are not psycho-educational when facilitated by coaches. They are just a chance to air out community concerns. Topics like masturbation by a particular teen would not be allowed. Telling another teen he has made a lot of progress with his canine training, airing out a grievance about someone working too slow or not pulling their weight, sharing student-written poems—all these are fair topics of groups. In other settings some who have posted seem to have seen attack groups and that is leading some of you to look for that in our groups. That is not what we are trying to accomplish. Therapists run almost all groups. Shorter gatherings are out in the middle of the living space for all to see. They cannot be hidden. There is never a group held in a closed space that is not facilitated by a therapist. Kids are simply allowed to huddle up in plain view to talk things out in a team group. I don’t know how else to explain it beyond this.

Theme 5—Why did Ken Huey work for Provo Canyon and West Ridge?

Response to theme 5--I learned a great deal from my time at Provo. I got in a lot of fights with residential staff over how I thought things should go. I got written up for the only time in my life at Provo because I was considered too soft. It is fair to say that I wanted Provo to go in a much different direction while I was there. Many people from Provo could testify to that. That was when I began creating what would eventually become CALO and lecturing around the country on relationship-based treatment and the need to put away power and control. There were a lot of very, very good people at Provo. There were also some front line staff with long tenures who I could not convince to change because I didn’t have any direct supervision over them. I left for West Ridge because I had the chance to add something to that organization as a Clinical Director. It was an extremely positive experience. I felt like I was able to contribute to what they were doing. With the help of the Executive Director I was given a great opportunity to help professionalize West Ridge and move people along who could not make necessary changes. I was not at West Ridge 15 years ago but when I was there 3 years ago the program was impressive.

Theme 6—What kind of kid does CALO accept?

Response to theme 6--CALO accepts one in every 11 or 12 kids who apply for enrollment. We take kids with a trauma history and who have acted out in ways significant enough that their future could be compromised. That could mean an event as significant as death or simply a large loss of future relational and job opportunity. I realize that is vague so let me give an example of our low and high ends and you can generalize from those examples. On the difficult end of the spectrum would be a kid who kept getting in fights with mom and dad. Some had gotten physical. Son was dabbling in a number of different drugs. He periodically ran away from home and would be gone for a couple of nights. One night mom woke up with son holding a knife over her. That was the final straw. Parents told the son he was going to CALO and brought him here themselves. He did not want to be at CALO (but now says it has changed his life for the better). On the lower end of a difficulty scale would be a young person who was hoarding food in her room all the time. She would not interact with her adopted family in productive ways. She disobeyed curfew and would sneak out of the house on occasion. She yelled at people for no apparent reason in school. She was failing all her classes. She had a love of animals and believed CALO could help her learn lessons in attachment. She came to CALO of her own volition.

With that I will close this post and ask for an open mind. I have requested that before and been met with skepticism. I think I understand that skepticism but I am beginning to understand that no amount of conversation with me will alleviate all your concerns. In fact, I am a bit of a flashpoint for many and may actually be contributing to the problem by posting on Fornits. I am sorry if that is the case for some. I have no intention of angering anyone or of somehow being disrespectful. I do not believe that there is enough I can say to change a mind if these exchanges have not already done that. I will attempt to avoid stirring up more negative feelings by bowing out of Fornits at this point.

I want to own that I am the one who invited Antigen (Ginger) and Psy (Michael) to come to NATSAP. I think my community needs to hear their arguments. I do not want anyone to believe I am being sneaky about it so I am acknowledging this invitation here. I also want to thank a few of you who have respectfully challenged my thinking. A few of those discussions have directly contributed to growth at CALO. It is a difficult thing to remain open and attentive when the message coming at you is an attack but I have done my best on that front. I feel I have done all I can at this point to hear concerns and be respectful in attending to that feedback. I will now go back to work trying to respectfully encourage our teens to change their own lives. I have a few programmatic items to work on now and some young people to help. My best regards to you all.

Ken
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2009, 01:38:10 PM »
Quote
Theme 5—Why did Ken Huey work for Provo Canyon and West Ridge?

Response to theme 5--I learned a great deal from my time at Provo. I got in a lot of fights with residential staff over how I thought things should go. I got written up for the only time in my life at Provo because I was considered too soft. It is fair to say that I wanted Provo to go in a much different direction while I was there. Many people from Provo could testify to that. That was when I began creating what would eventually become CALO and lecturing around the country on relationship-based treatment and the need to put away power and control. There were a lot of very, very good people at Provo. There were also some front line staff with long tenures who I could not convince to change because I didn’t have any direct supervision over them. I left for West Ridge because I had the chance to add something to that organization as a Clinical Director. It was an extremely positive experience. I felt like I was able to contribute to what they were doing. With the help of the Executive Director I was given a great opportunity to help professionalize West Ridge and move people along who could not make necessary changes. I was not at West Ridge 15 years ago but when I was there 3 years ago the program was impressive.

You stated"I got in a lot of fights with residential staff over how I thought things should go."  Can you please more specific.  What did you disagree with residential staff over?  

You stated, "It is fair to say that I wanted Provo to go in a much different direction while I was there. Many people from Provo could testify to that."  What direction did you want Provo Canyon to go in?

You stated, "I was not at West Ridge 15 years ago but when I was there 3 years ago the program was impressive."  West Ridge Academy has strong ties with Senator Chris Buttars.  I think allot of people, including myself,  question  your morals when you work at a facility that had strong ties with Senator Buttars.  Please discuss.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM »
Quote
Theme 4—Are groups “attack” based? Are they always led by a therapist?

Response to theme 4--We seem to be getting hung up on semantics with words like “accountability” and even the word “groups.” It is hard to get a clear picture for the reader of what our gatherings (that are not led by a therapist) even look like. They are not psycho-educational when facilitated by coaches. They are just a chance to air out community concerns. Topics like masturbation by a particular teen would not be allowed. Telling another teen he has made a lot of progress with his canine training, airing out a grievance about someone working too slow or not pulling their weight, sharing student-written poems—all these are fair topics of groups. In other settings some who have posted seem to have seen attack groups and that is leading some of you to look for that in our groups. That is not what we are trying to accomplish. Therapists run almost all groups. Shorter gatherings are out in the middle of the living space for all to see. They cannot be hidden. There is never a group held in a closed space that is not facilitated by a therapist. Kids are simply allowed to huddle up in plain view to talk things out in a team group. I don’t know how else to explain it beyond this.

You stated, "It is hard to get a clear picture for the reader of what our gatherings (that are not led by a therapist) even look like. They are not psycho-educational when facilitated by coaches."  What is CALO's name for "group gatherings."  Please be specific to what takes place in "group gatherings."
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2009, 02:06:39 PM »
http://caloteens.com/blog/post/Therapy- ... x#continue

Therapy Without Walls
clock July 15, 2009 06:28 by author Caleb

I frequently get asked the question, "What is a recreational therapist?" I am always hesitant to respond. As I explain that I go rock climbing and wake boarding and spend long hours fishing and canoeing with adolescents, people don't always believe that I have a real job. I've been accused of making a living by playing hard. While there is some truth to that statement, recreational therapy is so much more than just lying out in the sun catching rays, or taking a joy ride on a boat with the wind in your hair. I can't always step back at the end of the day and look at what I've accomplished because so much of the work happens deep in the hearts and heads of the youth I work with.

It is difficult for most adolescents to connect with their feelings and talk about relationships, especially when there is a history of trauma or abuse. At times sitting down in an office can inspire fear and an unwillingness to open up. This is particularly obvious when a student begins treatment. Within the recreational therapy department our goal is to get rid of the literal walls surrounding therapy, so that students begin to let their own personal walls down. Fortunately CALO's location allows for wonderful and exciting outdoor opportunities year round.

As students participate in experiential exercises they have opportunities to expose very genuine and sometimes very intense fears that are hidden deep within. Take for example two boys I once took out on a canoe. One of them was very experienced and the other was just learning. In an attempt to paddle from point A to point B these two boys successfully completed numerous circles until eventually the experienced boy got angry and jumped out. Filled with frustration he swam to shore and swore never to share a canoe with his partner again. His partner, now afraid and alone, threw down his paddle and yelled for help. It was tempting to hurry out and rescue the boy still begging for help, but in doing so a great therapeutic opportunity would have been missed.


After some validation and persuasion the experienced boy on shore agreed to swim back to the boat and accompany his stranded partner back to dry land. This was not an impressive sight to behold. The two of them struggled and zigzagged until they finally made it back to shore. I was able to sit down with this frustrated partnership and discuss two issues that were meaningful to both of these boys. The first issue was abandonment. We had a great discussion about how tempting it is to abandon others when they are holding us back. We were also able to discuss what it feels like to be abandoned. The boys were able to connect the dots when I asked my favorite question, "How is that like your life?" Suddenly there was a safe opportunity for these boys to share insights and feelings about their own adoption experiences. The vulnerability demonstrated in this conversation opened doors that led to a discussion about helplessness. The boy left in the canoe had everything he needed to get himself back to dry land. His fear however, had hindered his ability to look for solutions. Again the question, "How is that like your life?" was begging to be asked. The connection made with those two boys that day inspired a friendship that grew and lasted a long time. From that point on a portion of empathy for one another helped them support each other through difficult times and frustrating moments.

It may very well be true that I have the greatest job on earth. However, it is not because I get to spend my afternoons scouting out the lake's best fishing holes, or because I get to climb around on our exciting ropes course each week. I have the greatest job on earth because I get to be an active participant in the process of building and repairing relationships with impressive boys and girls, then observe how the values and principles we learn together are applied to relationships in their lives as they strive for interdependence with their parents and family members. The memories of the fun we have will certainly last a long, long time, but the principles of communication, trust and service that we discover together will hopefully bless their lives forever.

The above was posted on CALO's blog by Caleb Cottle.  He wrote, "Take for example two boys I once took out on a canoe. One of them was very experienced and the other was just learning. In an attempt to paddle from point A to point B these two boys successfully completed numerous circles until eventually the experienced boy got angry and jumped out. Filled with frustration he swam to shore and swore never to share a canoe with his partner again. His partner, now afraid and alone, threw down his paddle and yelled for help. It was tempting to hurry out and rescue the boy still begging for help, but in doing so a great therapeutic opportunity would have been missed."  

What were to happen if the child was hurt?  I worked with youth in a wilderness facility.  We did 28 day canoe trips and were well versed in canoe safety.  If there was a safety issue, such that Caleb Cottle wrote about, counselors were the first to assist.  That took place without question.  The student's parents would have every right to sue if he/she sustained injuries.  
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2009, 02:34:44 PM »
Quote
Theme 3—Do kids have access to phones to call in a complaint about their treatment? Do kids have their phone calls monitored?

Response to theme 3--We do not provide a phone for students to call in complaints. To date, we have been concerned about frivolous use of such a phone and we have not been able to figure out a way around that problem. As for monitoring calls, we do have a staff member in our large conference room where we have 3 or 4 phone calls going on. The staff member is there for safety as those calls can get emotional at times. Teens are not directed to avoid difficult issues on calls or told to keep ANYTHING secret. They are free to complain if they wish. If a staff member did hear that (sometimes they do but not always) s/he will inform the therapist who can then check in with parents. Parents and students are free to escalate concerns to therapists and administration if desired. I have an open-door policy and on occasion students have taken that opportunity and made complaints about program issues. Those conversations have many times been the genesis of course correction within our organization. I implicitly and explicitly invite these conversations. Such a conversation could and has led to an employee termination. We take allegations of treatment that is not in line with our model very seriously. We even go so far as to tell parents and teens how to file a complaint against us if they don’t feel we are dealing with them in good faith. We have that invitation in written materials for teens and parents and on our web site.

You stated, "We do not provide a phone for students to call in complaints. To date, we have been concerned about frivolous use of such a phone and we have not been able to figure out a way around that problem."  Your previous statement has serious implications.  The policy could  open up the door for potential lawsuits in the future, should you deny a child the right to report abuse.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2009, 05:34:36 PM »
Note that he immediately and completely conceded the field about "lasting change" or whatever goals his organization was supposed to be accomplishing. THAT he knows he can't justify, because at some level he knows damn well that what he's trying to do is in fact completely impossible, ethics be damned. I only had to tell him that once.

So now he's just trying to paint CALO as a hold-them-until-they're-18 mini-prison in order to avoid the inevitable.
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Offline M_Hilton

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2009, 06:45:20 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Note that he immediately and completely conceded the field about "lasting change" or whatever goals his organization was supposed to be accomplishing. THAT he knows he can't justify, because at some level he knows damn well that what he's trying to do is in fact completely impossible, ethics be damned. I only had to tell him that once.

So now he's just trying to paint CALO as a hold-them-until-they're-18 mini-prison in order to avoid the inevitable.

at which point id bet most are shipped off to places like Benchmark
id like to know the number that go to "lead normal lives" if its as they say it cant be very big
whats the exit plan for the kids that are held till 18?
or for any of them
no way there going off to college right from this place if its HS diploma is even worth the paper its printed on

this brings up a question
what tools does this place give kids to enter the work force or college after they get out
do they offer ANY computer training at all?

the high school i when to beleved that if you could find a trade skill that an "at risk" kid liked and WANTED TO DO they would do it and you can impart change via that ie work and study habits

just a thought
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