Author Topic: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming  (Read 3805 times)

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Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 11:40:54 AM »
Quote from: "stick it"
because i was not involved in the program and now my brother has been out for 10 months we can not connect.  i did not ageee with he program and i knew my brother wasnt an addict.   my mother has big doubts  about the program but my brother thinks it helped him.  now he addicted to n/a and a/a meetings.  i notice isolation by my lil bro and any conflict cannot be resolved as the other person expressed , with logic.   my bro says i missed the boat and your view is from the land and mine is fromthe boat.  but this was not the case before program.  i dont understand how now i cannot relate to my bro as in the passed.  it is really weird.  it is as if i do not fit in his world, box whatever you want to call it.  and we used have big trust bewteen us and he knows i will not enable him.  i do not drink or smoke and he knows that.  so what is going on his his head.  can someone explain?   and what can i do to communicate effectivly?  any tips would be greatly welcome.


Wow,
You said a lot there to digest. I am a survivor of a straight descendant program, and I only wish that my brother(who did not attend or visit the program, but only once) would have asked someone these same things about me.
Unfortunately, we have not spoken more than a few words in a matter of years. The program promised if we were both honest then they would let me see him. He came in, he was honest, and they still denied me seeing him. Fuckers ruined our relationship. We were best friends too, like you guys. When I finally was allowed to see him, on fifth phase vacation, I felt awkward as hell around him, and embarrassed of myself. What the awkwardness was in me is that seeing him caused me to have moments of clarity within the brainwashing. So, in recognizing this within myself I became embarrassed of myself and how I had become, "programmed", "emotional", etc...in front of him. So, I retracted away from him and recoiled. A lot of it was me b/c of the inner conflict of the programs version of "recovery" and my brother. Well, obviously the program won that battle. It strained our relationship immensely. After they denied him to see me, the following Halloween I had made it to second phase, and was home alone that first weekend, and he dropped off a pumpkin with a note for me to let me know he was still there anyways. My mother let me keep it and did not tell the program anything about it. They would have set me back for that. But still, it takes two in any relationship and I couldn't respond to him at all and tell him thank you for still caring etc... So, on his end the silence from me went on for over a year and a half. Fucked up! I really just wanted to talk to him the whole time. Talk to him, give him attention....it doesn't have to be a talk about this, it can be about anything. Keep the dialogue open, and flowing.

My advice to you about how to deal with your little bro? Hell yes I have some advice that I think may be helpful.
WAIT OUT HIS WORLD! Wait it out.....simple.....Please do not give up on him. Let him know you are there for him. Invite him to normal places, and do fun things. reminisce with him about some good ole times.
WAIT OUT HIS WORLD! Wait it out! Do not give up on him.
sincerely,
-DP
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 01:28:24 PM »
Quote from: stick it
because i was not involved in the program and now my brother has been out for 10 months we can not connect.  i did not ageee with he program and i knew my brother wasnt an addict.   my mother has big doubts  about the program but my brother thinks it helped him.  now he addicted to n/a and a/a meetings.  i notice isolation by my lil bro and any conflict cannot be resolved as the other person expressed , with logic.   my bro says i missed the boat and your view is from the land and mine is fromthe boat.  but this was not the case before program.  i dont understand how now i cannot relate to my bro as in the passed.  it is really weird.  it is as if i do not fit in his world, box whatever you want to call it.  and we used have big trust bewteen us and he knows i will not enable him.  i do not drink or smoke and he knows that.  so what is going on his his head.  can someone explain?   and what can i do to communicate effectivly?  any tips would be greatly welcome.[/q

i was in straight for 2 yrs and was not ok for a long time but my sis believed all the program hype and said I seemed fine after I got out.. I was ababdoned after I 7th stepped and was lost and messed up and didn't know why.. i had completely denied my time in the program, it was that traumatic!! til I came across the book 'help at any cost'  15 YEARS LATER!!!! and it helped me connect the dots and understand why i did what i did after the program. anyway my sis read the book also and said it explained alot about me... so that understanding was nice however it did not repair the damage the program did to our relationship or give us back all the time we had been separated. It is the saddest thing to me to hear you and your brother are not close anymore and to know he is a different person now and not better b/c of the program... i suggest you get the book for him and yourself to read. try to hang on to him, he needs normal support now especially when he starts 'coming to' and the sooner the better...try and get him to read any anti cult/program material you can and this should help bring him back.... it doesn't need to take 15 years.. in fact the sooner he comes out of his brainwashed state the better... he will fair much better mentally for getting help sooner rather than later on. he is lucky you and your mother see the program for what it is...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 05:22:01 PM »
tell your brother you love him everyday. dp is right, he pulls away from you because he feels great, great shame and fear. He may also simply find it hard to be with human beings because these places can destroy the instincts that enable it. My sibling had that. I had that. These 'programs' are murderers, nothing short. Destroyers of love, of children, of lives. And they do it for money, the cheapest of all motivations. And for complete power over the helpless, the most cowardly.

Tell your brother you love him everyday. Invite him to be with you. Dont stop reaching out. Eventually he'll take your hand. Tell him he has nothing to be ashamed of. Tell him its the AARC that needs to be ashamed. Tell him he's been brainwashed and tortured but it's not his fault, and no matter what theyve done to him he's still your baby and you love him. Tell him they'll never hurt him again because you'll stop that. This is what I would tell my sibling if my sibling hadn't been murdered just in mind, but also in body.
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Offline psy

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 05:25:42 PM »
Most of what the above guest said, but i'd suggest avoiding using the word "brainwashed".  Many people turn off after hearing that word directly applied to them.  My suggestion is to let him come to his own conclusion on that.  Perhaps give him a book on cults to read such as "Cults in Our Midst".  He might come to the conclusion on his own that he was in a cult and brainwashed.  He will, eventually, in time... but giving him some information related to cults and brainwashing can help him to connect the dots on his own a bit quicker.

Also... invite him to hang out with normal people (non-cult members) and do normal things.  Maybe try to help him to become interested in things outside his extended "recovery family".  Especially things he liked to do before he was in the program but doesn't do now with his "recovery" "friends".

Does he have any old friends from before program?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 09:36:57 PM »
thanks you guys it helps, i was thinking the same on the book thing and reading.  and yes psy you are correct about the brainwash thing.  it is very hard becasuse in feel like i need to have a psych degree to relate to him now.  i also agree about getting him away from program people, as he seems to connect the most with them and i want to get him out and away from all that bullshit.  and he refuses to go for anyother therpy mostly because, i think, he has had it with that shit and is totally turned off/burned out.  so i guess your right about keep trying, i just dont want it to become a premanent block.  i have read alot  over this site and everything makes sense and has merit from what i have experienced.  this shit is fucked up big time the the words fucked up sum it up the best.  no lie.   i cannot believe th number of stories which express how thier family  life  got  negativily fucked over too,   this is why im here, and hoping  to salvage the wreck.  the whole family now just does not know how to act.  the holidays were weird,  it makes me understand the word crazy.
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Offline psy

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2009, 12:21:16 AM »
Which program was this, if you don't mind me asking?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Awake

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2009, 02:25:26 AM »
I have been reading over some old research on the Esalen institute (Big Sur, CA 1962-P) where they conducted many strange experiments with groups of people. Esalen was probably the epicenter for the development of many new “innovative” psychologies growing during that time. Maybe this will be of some help.

The one thing that remains constant throughout the TTI programs, LGAT’s (est, Lifespring), Synanon, and most all of the explosion of psychotherapeutic approaches coming out of the Humanistic Psychology era, is the presence of sensitivity training in various forms. Focused on individual/group change through group processes.

1955-1959: Sensitivity training, an extension of T-group ideas, was being explored at the UCLA School of Business Administration in California and in other locations as part of the expansion of the National Training Laboratories. Sensitivity training was developed by a german behavioral scientist/Gestalt practitioner who fled during the Nazi collapse and headed the National Training Labratories.

The Period of Innovation

1958-1966: Frederick (Fritz) Perls, Laura Perls, Paul Goodman, Ralph Hefferline, and others developed Gestalt therapy in New York; it became popular after Fritz Perls moved to the Esalen Institute in California around 1966.

1963-1966: Marathon (time-extended) group therapy (mainly for personal growth); Frederick Stoller, George Bach, Elizabeth Mintz.

1963-1966: Eric Berne developed his method of Transactional Analysis.

1963-1966: Michael Murphy and Richard Price organized Esalen Institute just south of Big Sur, California. It was the prototype of the "growth center," and hundreds sprouted up around the country (and some overseas) over the next decade. These centers became the focus of the human potential movement, which was a marriage of humanistic psychology and T-group methods.

1967: Will Schutz, at Esalen, combined many modes of therapy with the process of the basic encounter group psychodrama, bioenergetic analysis, sensory awakening, guided fantasy, and a variety of action techniques, many of which were ultimately based on Moreno's methods.

1967: Synanon "games" opened to the public as a form of encounter group in Santa Monica, a seaside suburb on the west side of Los Angeles. Synanon was started in 1958 as a drug abuse treatment center by Charles Diedrich. These games were just short of being violently confrontational, and some of this approach generalized to contaminate parts of the encounter group movement.

1968: Hindu gurus, swamis, and Eastern spiritual teachers and disciplines were becoming fashionable, in part stimulated by the support of the Beatles for the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and his system of transcendental meditation. The use of psychedelic agents added to metaphysical interest, and group therapies began integrating transpersonal issues.

In the 1960s, a number of other forms of psychotherapy became relatively popular, and some of these approaches were applied in group contexts: family therapy (involving several families at a time); art, movement, and other expressive therapies; Arthur Janov's primal therapy; William Glasser's reality therapy; and the like.

Kurt Zadek Lewin (September 9, 1890 - February 12, 1947), a German-born psychologist, is one of the modern pioneers of social, organizational, and applied psychology. Lewin is often recognized as the "founder of social psychology" and was one of the first researchers to study group dynamics and organizational development.
Lewin had originally been involved with schools of behavioral psychology before changing directions in research and undertaking work with psychologists of the Gestalt school of psychology.  Lewin often associated with the early Frankfurt School, originated by an influential group of largely Jewish Marxists at the Institute for Social Research in Germany. But when Hitler came to power in Germany in 1933 the Institute members had to disband, moving to England and then to America. In that year, he met with Eric Trist, of the London Tavistock Clinic. Trist was impressed with his theories and went on to use them in his studies on soldiers during the Second World War.

Later, he went on to become director of the Center for Group Dynamics at MIT. While working with at MIT in 1946, Lewin received a phone call from the Director of the Connecticut State Inter Racial Commission requesting help to find an effective way to combat religious and racial prejudices. He set up a workshop to conduct a 'change' experiment, which laid the foundations for what is now known as sensitivity training. In 1947, this led to the establishment of the National Training Laboratories, at Bethel, Maine. Carl Rogers (figurehead of the Human Potential Movement and heavily involved in the CIA mind control experiments of MK-Ultra) believed that sensitivity training is "perhaps the most significant social invention of this century."

An early model of change developed by Lewin described change as a three-stage process. The first stage he called "unfreezing". It involved overcoming inertia and dismantling the existing "mind set". Defense mechanisms have to be bypassed. In the second stage the change occurs. This is typically a period of confusion and transition. We are aware that the old ways are being challenged but we do not have a clear picture as to what we are replacing them with yet. The third and final stage he called "freezing". The new mindset is crystallizing and one's comfort level is returning to previous levels. This is often misquoted as "refreezing" (see Lewin K (1947) Frontiers in Group Dynamics).

Adherents of Lewin, such as psychologist Ed Schein, who studied brainwashing techniques in Korea, admitted that it was modeled on Pavlov’s brainwashing techniques. In an introduction to one of his papers on Sensitivity Training, Schein says that this method includes “coercive persuasion in the form of thought reform or brainwashing as well as a multitude of less coercive, informal patterns.”
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 10:39:21 PM »
it was that fucking pathway place
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2009, 10:16:16 PM »
Every time I tried therapy the Docs treated me like a compulsive liar.  They simply do not believe a word I say and treat me as if I were an uneducated moron.  Doctors can be quite nasty, and expensive and can cause more problems.  It took me a lot of angry reflection to come to the conclusion that I am superior to my old captors and their sick network.  The reasons for these schools is to destroy self esteem and to keep people from being the social animals that they are and completely docile.  In essence they were denying us our own god given nature.  I also don't believe for a minute that there wasn't anything in the propheet water.
I had to embrace my rage before I could release it.  I also had to get over a lot of guilt that had built up over many forced confessions that were fabricated.  I had never been exposed to some of the things I had heard about in raps, and quite honestly no-one who is not trained should be exposed to others intimate memories of abuse etc.  When my parental units came to visit I did not read them my fake dirtlist, I had too much respect for myself. I was so afraid of becoming the piece of garbage they told me I was, that I would not allow myself to feel anger appropriately for a long time.   "Living well is the best Revenge."
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2009, 03:22:14 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"

I don't really know how to de-program.



I do!  Start regularly smoking marijuana, and I guarantee that PTSD symptoms will disappear!
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Offline Guest44431444

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2009, 06:27:52 PM »
Wow, can I relate to the OP - I too am going through deprogramming after sixteen years...

I was not in Straight or Pathways but AARC in Calgary, what a way to completely mess up me, my family and all of my relationships I once had.

To this day, I still have no relationship with my father, my brother and I are coming around and a lot of my friends I had are starting to re-surface.

I too find it weird to interact with normal people after so many years of forcing myself to believe as that was the only way I'd be accepted by my family, turns out as I found out yesterday, they were against me for being a part of the program as AARC forced them to believe stuff they couldn't.

I hope one day to regain some sort or normality back in my life but I struggle everyday with serious depression and fear of what might happen - the old cult mantra keeps playing the fucking tape in my head day in and day out...

I am lucky that I have a supportive wife and kids to help keep me going as I am sure if it were just me forging through this mess, I just could not do it.

Guest44431444
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2009, 07:41:42 PM »
http://www.freedomofmind.com/stevehassa ... oach-2003/

I highly recommend following this advice to a "T" it works.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2009, 08:53:39 PM »
We too were in AARC, guest. It didn't take me long to realize these things about AARC, and even though I tried to take my child out they kept him and kicked the rest of the family out.

I didn't talk to my son for almost a whole year and I knew how much he was going to have changed and how much he would be just like all the other graduates. I knew better than to try to convince my son that AARC was "bad" but rather told him our experiences from our side of the story, listened to his side of the story and let the reality of life outside of AARC sink in. I let my son interact with us at his pace and he came to realize the things he was convinced of in AARC just weren't true at all. '

When he realized AARC blatantly lied to him about several things including having guardianship over him - that was pretty much what ultimately snapped him out of it all. That and the way his "friends" from AARC treated him like a traitor just for carrying on with his own life and not dedicating himself to AARC. I didn't have to convince him of anything. He still suffers post-program problems like many of the others on here, but he's only been out for a year. With none of his friends and family in AARC it hasn't taken him ages to come around.

AARC pretty much robbed us of a year of our lives. They greatly strained our relationship but they didn't destroy it, and in many ways we are closer now than before.

AARC completely wasted a critical year of my son's life. The time he spent in AARC could have been spent in another program that could deliver all that that AARC promised. My son received no qualified services the entire time he was there. He was also denied an education. If he attended classes and obtained credits while he was in AARC he could have continued at a regular high school this year and have a high school graduation. GED is just not the same. AARC taught my son zero social or life skills they only taught him to rely on AARC and those in AARC.

AARC is the biggest con act I've ever seen!

Parents need to educate themselves. My goal is to get the message out there that the troubled teen industry is unregulated and parents simply can't rely on the government to ensure facilities are helpful and safe. If I can save even one family the heartache and violation of rights we experienced, I will be very happy.

I consider my family the lucky ones. We survived.

 :rose:
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Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2009, 09:40:32 PM »
Quote from: "Friend of a guest"
Quote from: "brainwashed"
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"

It takes years to untangle the clusterfucked ball of twine these programs wrap around our true identity.


How do I untangle it?  I feel like I'm losing/lost myself.

Yeah I would like to know as well. Its been 22 yrs for me since I've been out of Straight.
I still feel out of place no matter what normal functions I'm attending. I never felt this way before Straight. Inc

I may have found the answer recently.
I am still experimenting with it though, and I will let you know the results that I find. When I am done, I will publish y findings.
-DP
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Interacting with Peers / Deprograming
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2009, 04:02:58 PM »
Quote from: "Guest44431444"
Wow, can I relate to the OP - I too am going through deprogramming after sixteen years...

I was not in Straight or Pathways but AARC in Calgary, what a way to completely mess up me, my family and all of my relationships I once had.

To this day, I still have no relationship with my father, my brother and I are coming around and a lot of my friends I had are starting to re-surface.

I too find it weird to interact with normal people after so many years of forcing myself to believe as that was the only way I'd be accepted by my family, turns out as I found out yesterday, they were against me for being a part of the program as AARC forced them to believe stuff they couldn't.

I hope one day to regain some sort or normality back in my life but I struggle everyday with serious depression and fear of what might happen - the old cult mantra keeps playing the fucking tape in my head day in and day out...

I am lucky that I have a supportive wife and kids to help keep me going as I am sure if it were just me forging through this mess, I just could not do it.

Guest44431444
Here's another back-handed AARC plug:

"Yes, thanks for the correction.
Last I heard was that his Mother and Father were in Victoria and Anthony has been committed unfortunatley.
I was in with Anthony and he was a great source of inspiration but his demons were to big and he needed help that AARC could not give him."
Guest44431444
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24208
So if his demons were smaller then the cult could have helped him?
But let's not forget that the real issue is the fact that folks who don't like AARC are just relapsed addicts:
"i guess why I have a differing opinion than most of you is that I chose to stay clean after I left AARC although my father stayed a corporate contributor and had his life royally screwed up and used to "cult-speak" me as well"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27646&p=333314#p333314
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