Cedu as Prison and work-camp/Gulag; REBELLION - impossible?

[dishdutyfugitive]

Remember when MS got put on work details for ripping out a couple pages (of chicks in bikinis) from a people magazine during a doctor visit?

[try another castle]

Remember when MS got put on work details for ripping out a couple pages (of chicks in bikinis) from a people magazine during a doctor visit?

lol! No! When did that happen?

Although, there was more than one MS at RMA. Hell, my peer group had three. But if it's the MS I think you're talking about, that's hilarious. He was an incredibly funny guy.

BTW, you're in my graduation tape. (I just got it.) You presented for someone, I forgot who. (Was it MS?) I said "Oh, cool. I can see what he looks like and then I'll remember him."

Nope, still don't remember you.

Don't take it personally. I've forgotten more people than I have remembered.

[dishdutyfugitive]

He was in quest/challenge at the time.

I remember wanting to defend him in raps. I thought it was awesome that he had nudie pics.

I'm a doppleganger - I don't appear in photos or video

[LS]

Understanding it as a prison has been quite valuable for me -

Raises the question - did you run? How many times? When did you stop running, and why?

I think most of us tried to run, probably more than once. I think we rebelled as we could over and over again, till we were pretty well beaten and bludgeoned and naked and bloody, and skinless, really. So.. at some point, did we stop trying to run? Or did we just turn inward and die many deaths?

That's a lot of what makes the prison aspect important in understanding the experience. Most of us would have left, if given a better option, all the way through. The better option was not offered, and that made hanging on for the last 6 months at Cedu, getting a HS diploma, and therefore a key to liberation from an abusive homelife, well, not tolerable, but, prison. Prison whose terms would soon - we counted down the days, we prayed and prayed - would be finally finished.

Was there a Cedu hangover? Sure, yes, there was.

How long did yours last? What did it consist of?

[Antigen]

"If only the decent Russians had fought back, Solzhenitsyn says, if only they had ambushed some of these secret police thugs in the hallways of their apartments with knives and pickaxes and hammers, if only they had spiked the tires of the police vans while the thugs were in the apartments dragging out their victims, they could easily have overwhelmed Yagoda's forces and forced an end to the mass arrests. But they didn't fight back, and the arrests and liquidations continued."

In the course of looking up this quote I came across the bitter sweet news that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn passed away earlier this month. Bitter because he will be missed. Sweet, though, in that he survived to the ripe old age of 89, told the story for good and all, shaking the foundations of the Soviet state.

And America may well have a cultic faction as well. How else do you explain people who get all agitated and hostile and literally will not hear, let alone entertain, any examination or criticism of things like voter fraud, the offical version of 911 or the idea that our dearly beloved Land of the Free might be getting a bit too police-state-ish for a patriot's comfort?

 :cheers: Great topic, Liam! Thanks so much for posting it.

[LS]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 85146.html

A day in the life of alexander solzhenitsyns

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I would like to introduce myself, I am S. DeGon of DeGon Comprehensive Investigations. I am conducting an investigation on the director of the Monarch school, and need information, and testimonials (affidavits) from individuals who saw, or maybe had been abused by the school. I also am looking for individuals who I am able to talk to about this academy.

[Anonymous]

Cedu was not a prison:

"It was a place full of love, and sure there were some hard times, but, I learned important lessons there."


Cedu was a prison:

The place was a prison, quite literally. There was no liberty to speak, read, listen to, sing, or talk about - or think about - most topics of natural interest and importance to teens in an school setting. There was no liberty of movement. There was only the small illusion of liberty, in the tiny spaces where it could be stolen -

* Smushing stood in for age-appropriate intimacy, and dating (it also stood in for sex, for the true pedophiles on staff, who cuddled gleefully with the teens)

* Raps stood in for appropriate therapy - but it was a psychotic, highly destructive, invasive and self-annihilating form of public torture and, frankly, mind-control (Raps actually were the center, the vortex of the Cedu control process, that created both the intense fear, and the massive, undirected cathartic release - adn then build-up to the next, the next, the next - Raps were, entirely, discipline, and control of the student population).

* Propheets stood for *magic*. Magic cedu growth and development. They took the place of actual, normative, age-appropriate academic and personal growth and achievement. They were charades of misappropriated cultural detritus, mixed and matched with more raps, more shame, humiliation, control, abuse, and maybe (maybe not) catharsis. They were supposed to be *magic* and took the place of actual achievement.

But strip away these very hollow pillars, and what is Cedu?

It was a prison, where students did physical labor all the time, day and night. This redirects the Cedu schools into a different category - GULags, work-camps, prisoner-of-war camps.

Could you leave? Is it appropriate then to use the term "prisoner?" I think it's absolutely correct. What was the punishment for leaving? A week in the box, like in the 'great escape?" More or less. More, very often.

But, add the Cedu *magic*, the runny dribbly nosed squealing and screaming, crying and puking, and suddenly it's.. "all the love in the room."

"All the love in the room." That's a phrase used so often at the place. "Can you feel all the love in the room?"

Holy Shit! We were suckered, sucked in, because... because... because we were teens, with little to no understanding of law, of civil rights, and most or many of us came from places that had already accustomed us to some real abuse. I speak personally here, and say it was so for me.



REBELLION.

Why was rebellion at Cedu so hard to achieve? It is my remaining Cedu dream, or nightmare, that I am there, fully aware of who I am and what Cedu is, and that I cannot, cannot, cannot raise the students, or several students, to leave, to protest, to strike back against the brutality - to temporarily incapacitate a more abusive staff member, and then to call media, television, authorities, and pull attention to the place, and the practices of the mad-hatter staff.

That is the nightmare - that I cannot find a quiet moment, a secret moment, with any student, to tell them (whispering) "this is a cult".

"What?"

"This is a CULT. This is not right. We are being abused. We must get enough of us together to refuse to participate, to liberate the phone, to call out to law enforcement, to civil services, to KTLA NEWS, for Christ's sake."

Can you imagine the look of sheet-white translucent fear and confusion on the face of a programmed Cedu student, when hearing these words from a peer?

"I have to go COP-OUT!!!"


That's the expected response.

thank you for this helpful post

[Anonymous]

I think tac was simply trying to point out that one is primarily a physical restraint and the other is a mental/emotional restraint.

Granted prison has it's share of mental/emotional restraints

but CEDU did not have bars.

Yes, cedu did have geographic isolation but it did not have steel bars.

CEDU did not have "bars" proper, but it had guards who watched and prevented individuals from escape. Minimum security prisons are still prisons. CEDU had more captivity enforcing measures than do minimum security prisons. It was a prison. Escapes were attempted, police rounded up escaped individuals and returned them to the gulag, as they would an escaped prisoner. Then, the prison wardens at CEDU punished the escapee dreadfully and added time to his sentance.

[try another castle]

I'm starting to lean away from the idea of using analogies to describe CEDU. I know that the idea is to help describe it to people who had never been there, (and maybe assist us in understanding our own experience) but we (the general we) seem to get bogged down in semantics as a result. Mainly because there is rarely an accurate fit.

There ARE facilities that are easier to compare to other types of internment. Tranquility bay is about as close to a prison camp as you can get.

This is not CEDU. CEDU and its clones are really their own animal. So the 64 thousand dolla question, in my mind, is not "What is the closest, most easily understandable thing we can compare CEDU to?" but rather "What is CEDU?"

Marcus Aurelius, the Meditations, Book Eight

This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution? What is
its substance and material? And what its causal nature (or form)?
And what is it doing in the world? And how long does it subsist?

Have we ever really addressed and answered this question?

"First principles, Clarice. Simplicity."



tick tock. You will tell me when those lambs stop screaming, won't you?

[Anonymous]

I'm starting to lean away from the idea of using of analogies to describe CEDU. I know that the idea is to help describe it to people who had never been there, (and maybe assist us in understanding our own experience) but we (the general we) seem to get bogged down in semantics as a result. Mainly because there is rarely an accurate fit.

There ARE facilities that are easier to compare to other types of internment. Tranquility bay is about as close to a prison camp as you can get.

This is not CEDU. CEDU and its clones are really their own animal. So the 64 thousand dolla question, in my mind, is not "What is the closest, most easily understandable thing we can compare CEDU to?" but rather "What is CEDU?"

Marcus Aurelius, the Meditations, Book Eight

This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution? What is
its substance and material? And what its causal nature (or form)?
And what is it doing in the world? And how long does it subsist?



"First principles, Clarice. Simplicity."



tick tock. You will tell me when those lambs stop screaming, won't you?

During the time period my loved one was interred it was an acutal prison where s/he was, imprisoned, prevented from leaving with physical force.

I am saying this absolutely to clear up confusion about the nature of the beast, at least the running springs gulag.

[try another castle]

I'm starting to lean away from the idea of using of analogies to describe CEDU. I know that the idea is to help describe it to people who had never been there, (and maybe assist us in understanding our own experience) but we (the general we) seem to get bogged down in semantics as a result. Mainly because there is rarely an accurate fit.

There ARE facilities that are easier to compare to other types of internment. Tranquility bay is about as close to a prison camp as you can get.

This is not CEDU. CEDU and its clones are really their own animal. So the 64 thousand dolla question, in my mind, is not "What is the closest, most easily understandable thing we can compare CEDU to?" but rather "What is CEDU?"

Marcus Aurelius, the Meditations, Book Eight

This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution? What is
its substance and material? And what its causal nature (or form)?
And what is it doing in the world? And how long does it subsist?



"First principles, Clarice. Simplicity."



tick tock. You will tell me when those lambs stop screaming, won't you?

During the time period my loved one was interred it was an acutal prison where s/he was, imprisoned, prevented from leaving with physical force.

I am saying this absolutely to clear up confusion about the nature of the beast, at least the running springs gulag.

I totally believe you.

But like Hannibal said.

"NO.... that's incidental."


All of CEDU's methods.. practices.. propheets.. workshops... rules... punishments... all incidental. The bus that gets them there. The things that get them what they want. The things that keep the machine running... Same as how Buffalo Bill's murder of women is incidental. His nature is not to murder women.. his nature is that he covets.


What is CEDU's nature? Why does it exist? What compels it?

I don't have an answer for this... I'm saying that maybe we should finally open up a discussion about it.

Although two things that spring to mind at the moment are greed and power... not a definitive answer, just something to get the ball rolling.

There is a need in this country... a need that CEDU fills, however perversely. Its reason for living.

[Anonymous]

it was worse than a prison and it was intended to be that way. For Cedu, the indoctrination of the program, to work it had to be your "decision" to be there, and in that respect they had to present the experience as one in which the "students" had a choice of whether they could leave or not. Maybe this sounds familiar "You say you can't handle it here but you obviously can, b/c you are here. If you really couldn't handle it you'd have walked out of here by now." In reality we were in a prison. Set aside the fact that consequences of escape were a return to a cedu fulltime, ascent, another program, or a mental hospital. The most succesful escape results in being a fugitive of the law, then jail. The real important part to all this is that actually trying to escape is actually a statement of how deeply they mentally trap you. For if you go on the run you are accepting being a fugitive and a law breaker, and essentially behaving in a way that supports the label of "deviance" that they had placed on you for being there in the first place.

The only REAL choice for rebellion would have been to go to the authorities and say they were being abused, but due to the mystifying nature of the program I doubt anyone had the ability to vocalize or understand how that was done. Any other rebellious act suggests that you are under the impression that you have a choice, and if you believe you have a choice you believe you are choosing to be there. If it is your choice to be there, you believe that you are agreeing to their rules. If you agree to their rules they can make you do what they want and feel like it is actually your choice.

They could not indoctrinate you with their beliefs if you knew you were behind bars. In that situation you understand that you are there by force and therefore perform according to the rules with the understanding that it is not your choice. This is not the case at CEDU, but it actually IS. We WERE in a prison, in that they made it clear to us that we could leave, but only with the result being that we end up in the same basic situation but doing so also implies personal acceptance for those consequences, or you believe that you youself are your own persecutor instead of them.

Personally I remember that dilemma well. So many times thinking 'should I leave' or 'I could leave right now'. Now I realize the power that really had to make me believe I was responsible for my situation.

[Anonymous]

it was worse than a prison and it was intended to be that way. For Cedu, the indoctrination of the program, to work it had to be your "decision" to be there, and in that respect they had to present the experience as one in which the "students" had a choice of whether they could leave or not. Maybe this sounds familiar "You say you can't handle it here but you obviously can, b/c you are here. If you really couldn't handle it you'd have walked out of here by now." In reality we were in a prison. Set aside the fact that consequences of escape were a return to a cedu fulltime, ascent, another program, or a mental hospital. The most succesful escape results in being a fugitive of the law, then jail. The real important part to all this is that actually trying to escape is actually a statement of how deeply they mentally trap you. For if you go on the run you are accepting being a fugitive and a law breaker, and essentially behaving in a way that supports the label of "deviance" that they had placed on you for being there in the first place.

The only REAL choice for rebellion would have been to go to the authorities and say they were being abused, but due to the mystifying nature of the program I doubt anyone had the ability to vocalize or understand how that was done. Any other rebellious act suggests that you are under the impression that you have a choice, and if you believe you have a choice you believe you are choosing to be there. If it is your choice to be there, you believe that you are agreeing to their rules. If you agree to their rules they can make you do what they want and feel like it is actually your choice.

They could not indoctrinate you with their beliefs if you knew you were behind bars. In that situation you understand that you are there by force and therefore perform according to the rules with the understanding that it is not your choice. This is not the case at CEDU, but it actually IS. We WERE in a prison, in that they made it clear to us that we could leave, but only with the result being that we end up in the same basic situation but doing so also implies personal acceptance for those consequences, or you believe that you youself are your own persecutor instead of them.

Personally I remember that dilemma well. So many times thinking 'should I leave' or 'I could leave right now'. Now I realize the power that really had to make me believe I was responsible for my situation.

Even when you told the authorities you were being abused, they would send you back. Maybe some authorities were more decent then the ones I experienced, but this is what they did in my dealings with them. :heartbreak:

[try another castle]

it was worse than a prison and it was intended to be that way. For Cedu, the indoctrination of the program, to work it had to be your "decision" to be there, and in that respect they had to present the experience as one in which the "students" had a choice of whether they could leave or not. Maybe this sounds familiar "You say you can't handle it here but you obviously can, b/c you are here. If you really couldn't handle it you'd have walked out of here by now." In reality we were in a prison. Set aside the fact that consequences of escape were a return to a cedu fulltime, ascent, another program, or a mental hospital. The most succesful escape results in being a fugitive of the law, then jail. The real important part to all this is that actually trying to escape is actually a statement of how deeply they mentally trap you. For if you go on the run you are accepting being a fugitive and a law breaker, and essentially behaving in a way that supports the label of "deviance" that they had placed on you for being there in the first place.

The only REAL choice for rebellion would have been to go to the authorities and say they were being abused, but due to the mystifying nature of the program I doubt anyone had the ability to vocalize or understand how that was done. Any other rebellious act suggests that you are under the impression that you have a choice, and if you believe you have a choice you believe you are choosing to be there. If it is your choice to be there, you believe that you are agreeing to their rules. If you agree to their rules they can make you do what they want and feel like it is actually your choice.

They could not indoctrinate you with their beliefs if you knew you were behind bars. In that situation you understand that you are there by force and therefore perform according to the rules with the understanding that it is not your choice. This is not the case at CEDU, but it actually IS. We WERE in a prison, in that they made it clear to us that we could leave, but only with the result being that we end up in the same basic situation but doing so also implies personal acceptance for those consequences, or you believe that you youself are your own persecutor instead of them.

Personally I remember that dilemma well. So many times thinking 'should I leave' or 'I could leave right now'. Now I realize the power that really had to make me believe I was responsible for my situation.

Even when you told the authorities you were being abused, they would send you back. Maybe some authorities were more decent then the ones I experienced, but this is what they did in my dealings with them. :heartbreak:

The Bonners Ferry sheriff did a 180 on that. He apparently got suspicious about why so many kids were splitting, and the folks at RMA allowed him to sit in on a rap. (just goes to show how delusional they were). Afterwards, he said "Im never sending a kid back there again."

blownaway became friends with him, actually. He came to his graduation.