Author Topic: Can we throw it away and start over?  (Read 14343 times)

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Offline psy

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Can we throw it away and start over?
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2007, 06:37:51 PM »
Quote from: ""blombro""
As long as you got the general point that we need to go after more than just the programs, but the systems that feed kids into these programs as well.


Like cultural approval (or silence, which is basically the same thing)?  How about refusing to take a stand when there are difficult (or even impossible odds).  Howabout  saying... "well... It's not Auschwitz...  the Jews love it here in Terezin!  I checked for myself!"

With the current state of this industry, it is irresponsible to suggest that there are "good" programs when choosing a school, realistically, is like playing Russian roulette on your kid with 5 bullets.  If you imply there is one that even "might" be good without adding "but it is not safe to take the chance!" you are being completely haphazard with the safety of kids, and giving the parents the false impression that there "might be other good ones..."...  You would have to be a complete idiot to not comprehend what follows after that.  Desperate, ignorant parents, combined with convincing con-artists and sophisticated means of indirect control and persuasion...  That one very good reason I do not tell parents "sure.. this place doesn't look so bad"... Another one?  Because I visited the program I was placed in .. thought it looked wonderful.  I was conned.  It is EASY to be fooled by places who make a living off doing it professionally.  Oh.. but you can tell from a recently released survivor that there is no abuse?  REally?  DId you use the word "abuse".  Even so, ever heard of a "cult of silence". "What is said in here, stays in here".  Come on...

You would be a fool to pass a final judgement on any facility in this industry unless you were actually a student there...  You should know this... but it seems to me, with your continuous harping on about WWASP, that you think their methods were the only ones ever used.  There are less draconic, kinder, gentler, but just as effective ways of raping sombody's mind.
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Offline psy

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Can we throw it away and start over?
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2007, 06:40:04 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I really wonder if they think the kids forced into the adolescent psychiatric programs are stupid. Their morning appointment is with a psychiatrist who tells them they have ______ disorder, _______ personality disorder, with ______ symptoms, plus you have ________ to top it off. Then you are told in order to solve these problems you must take 350 mg of ______ per day, 5 mg of______ per day, 25 mg of _______ four times per day, 60MG of _________ six times daily, and a half dozen other ones for good measure. Then that afternoon you are told to sit alone and read the whole NA big book, and write about it. Then at night you find yourself in an NA group, led by volunteer lay people brought in from outside a hospital full of highly educated psychologists who specialize in adolescent mental health. But all this knowledge, all this resource, it's simply brought to the common denominator of NA, all druggies are the same, they use drugs because drugs are evil and they have a disease. So the duality, of being diagnosed with problems by a psychiatrist, and given drugs to solve such problems. Then the same day being taught that chemicals and drugs are not a solution to your problems. It makes no sense, at all. At this point is when a kid realizes the hypocrisy of it all and finally realizes what they really are. A commodity. They are bought, sold, transfered, and experimented on and because of this many other people are making a living and the even higher ups are doing extremely well, the CEO of the companies who own it. It's a pyramid scheme, built on the backs of teenagers just trying to make sense of the fucked up world they find themselves in when their eyes start to finally open. Their parents don't want them anymore, the only people willing to show them some affection is those people who are obsessed with proving that this child has problems. So in order to placate that normal human function of wanting love, these kids are forced to absorb their labeled dysfunctions . Look at all the attention they get if they admit to being dysfunctional, suddenly everybody likes them again. If they don't admit it they are shunned, and put on more and more meds until they are literally a walking zombie. Or they take a beautiful girl brought in for self image issues, and force them on Zyprexa which causes them to gain 100 pounds, and they had issues before? The plain cold hard truth is very few people are going to love a kid that isn't their own, the ones who do don't go asking for money , they probably just adopt kids or something. Money is what our society is about, follow the money and you see the real perpetrators of this sham. House of cards built on the admitted dysfunctions of normal people. They have turned a normal human behavior into a dysfcuntion and sell a treatment that does nothing. |Money from nowhere, that is what this drug war is all about.


I so recognize this writing style...  I'm just glad this is written as guest.  You absolutely fucking ROCK as a writer.  Must be them cookies.
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline blombro

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« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2007, 08:06:51 PM »
I retract my stupid remarks

Psy is on point about learned helplessness.  But if we want to extend the definition of programs to include learned helplessness, we might have to include almost every school and medical facility in this country.  

My point about the complexities of the system remains.  What is the strategy for dealing with the myriad faults of the teen help industry in all of its forms?  

My obsession with WWASP is moot and largely unintentional, CEDU, Straight, SUWS, Aspen, their more or less all the same in my mind in that parents with money (or decent credit) can "opt out" of the government run and regulated systems.  The ones that operate without state money require different strategies to shut down than ones that do receive money from the state.  I admit to not being an expert on the particulars of the brainwashing techniques of each model.

Question, what of the person who has experienced multiple "programs" and thinks they can differentiate the quality (or lack thereof of each one).
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Offline psy

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Can we throw it away and start over?
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2007, 08:43:04 PM »
Quote from: ""blombro""
I retract my stupid remarks

Psy is on point about learned helplessness.  But if we want to extend the definition of programs to include learned helplessness, we might have to include almost every school and medical facility in this country.  

My point about the complexities of the system remains.  What is the strategy for dealing with the myriad faults of the teen help industry in all of its forms?
Education.  Independent/guerilla media.  Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.  It is one unifying aspect of all totalistic systems.  Show people a pattern, and they will start to see it everywhere it appears.  Turn programs inside out, show the world what they don't what to become public.  Regardless of the law, it does not matter.  Each year, this industry grows and becomes popular. Each year, undocumented pass through this industry.  With such things at stake, the law means absolutely nothing to me.  Anything and everything it takes to expose the truth... cracking, surveilance, blackmale, bribery.  Yes.  I am suggesting illegal things.  I don't care. If you are not willing to participate than get out of the way.  If the law fails, and there is still injustice it does not relieve those who know about from their responsability to act.  Inaction is the same as approval.  I may be extreme, but I am not endorsing violence.  It should also be noted that there is a very viable defense for such actions (not that it would matter to me).  Do you really think a jury would convict somebody for using "illegal" means to expose abuse and fraud on such a scale?  and even if they did.  That punishment would be worth it.  People overseas are willing to blow themselves up for what they believe in, sacrafice their lives for an imaginary friend.  I had real friends who suffered immesurabely, and some are dead.  I am more than a little willing to do a little time if that is what it takes.  If just ONE person from every tbs was willing to do the same, there would be no more industry.  You want a one-shot, one-kill end to this industry?  That is it.

You can play your politics but you are a fool to continue to have faith in a system that is so filled with cancer there is no way it can ever recover.  Authority means "people with power" and power/might rarely if ever means right.  Whatever you have to sacrifice, to give up, to give in, is a slippery slope, and before you know it you will become the very thing that you hate.  Mark my words.  You really think you would be any different with such power?  Power corrupts, without exception.  I would hope you would be wise enough to realize that, but it appears there is much you do not understand about the nature of humanity.  Do you really think everybody started out in this industry with ill intentions.  Kevin August had good intentions... He simply thought that his ideal goal was unattainable, so he compromised, and ended up referring, (probably ignorantly) to an abusive faciility (and don't question me on that or i will shove so much evidence so far up your ass....).  You simply don't see how easy it is to become part of the system you once sought to destroy.  You may give up.  I wont.

Quote
My obsession with WWASP is moot and largely unintentional, CEDU, Straight, SUWS, Aspen, their more or less all the same in my mind in that parents with money (or decent credit) can "opt out" of the government run and regulated systems.  The ones that operate without state money require different strategies to shut down than ones that do receive money from the state.  I admit to not being an expert on the particulars of the brainwashing techniques of each model.

Then, once again, I wonder how in the hell you could even dare to suggest any program is benign.  I am not expert either.  I am not willing to take such a risk and have such a placement on my conscience.  Even if I am 90% sure I will never say so, becuase I was fooled myself when I visited Bencmark.  If you can live with yourself after passing around such irresponsible advice, from a supposed position of responsibility... fine.

Quote
Question, what of the person who has experienced multiple "programs" and thinks they can differentiate the quality (or lack thereof of each one).


I know different people who were in teh same series of programs (common when ed-cons get paid off).  They differed in their opinion of which one was worse.  Some people are more affected by one type of "treatment" than others.  I am not such a fool to think I can ever tell what a program is like without going through it (without exception).
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline nimdA

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Can we throw it away and start over?
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2007, 09:04:14 PM »
In certain situations I do endorse violence against program property, staff, and staff member families if the risks are proportionate to the gains.
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Offline Karass

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« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2007, 10:40:21 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
If the law fails, and there is still injustice it does not relieve those who know about from their responsability to act.  Inaction is the same as approval.  I may be extreme, but I am not endorsing violence.  It should also be noted that there is a very viable defense for such actions

A little more than two centuries ago, some English citizens in the American colonies were saying the same kinds of things. I don't believe anyone should resort to violence, as our founders did, to right this wrong. But I do believe that devious, underhanded and possibly illegal tactics may be required. The Programs operate that way, and it only seems fair to meet their assault on our youth with the same sort of arsenal.

Quote
Do you really think everybody started out in this industry with ill intentions...You simply don't see how easy it is to become part of the system you once sought to destroy.


Sorry to digress, but this quote reminds me of a lyric that's often heard on alternative stations right now, from the latest Nine Inch Nails album. Trent seems to be taking the rich asshole perspective in this song -- and the "G" stands for "Greed".

"Don't try to tell how some power can corrupt a person
You haven't had enough to know what it's like
You're only angry 'cause you wish you were in my position
Now nod your head because you know that I'm right"

-- Trent Reznor, "Capital G"
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Offline KPalicz

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« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2007, 10:40:50 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.


Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.
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Offline psy

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« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2007, 10:44:34 PM »
Quote from: ""KPalicz""
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.

Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.


Alex?
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Offline psy

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« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2007, 11:14:01 PM »
Quote from: ""KPalicz""
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.
Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.

Do you really think I would be stupid enough to tell you if I did?  What if I already have?  Hypothetically, I do not particularly care about taking credit as long as the information would become public.  There are ways of releasing information anonymously and I plan to write an "idiots guide to completely anonymous internet" for Fornits.  Just Becuase I am willing to do time doesn't mean I would seek it out.  If I do illegal things, you won't know about it.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2007, 11:14:41 PM »
Quote from: ""KPalicz""
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.

Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.


Care to enlighten us on your alliance with Isabelle Zehender?
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Offline KPalicz

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« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2007, 11:16:16 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""KPalicz""
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.

Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.

Alex?


Yup.  Howdy.  :)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2007, 11:18:13 PM »
Still wondering why you have clung to your alliance with Isabelle Zehender despite her vicious attacks on the survivors of the Whitmore tragedy.
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Offline psy

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Can we throw it away and start over?
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2007, 11:19:11 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""KPalicz""
Quote from: ""psy""
Civil disobedience.  Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches).  Oh?  but you can go go jail for that?!?!  I am willing, if that is what it takes.  Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.

Good.  Do it.  Don't just talk about it.

Care to enlighten us on your alliance with Isabelle Zehender?

Can't say I didn't know about this (hence my curt respose)

Fuck you Alex.  Traitor!  Hypocrite!
Oh.. but poor Brian was ignorant of this!  right?  wrong!  He thinks politics makes strange bedfellows.

Come clean or I will do it for you.
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2007, 11:24:06 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Still wondering why you have clung to your alliance with Isabelle Zehender despite her vicious attacks on the survivors of the Whitmore tragedy.

Hate to think she's got him pussy-whipped or something.. lol..
This is about to get good, isn't it? LOL
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Offline psy

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« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2007, 11:24:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Still wondering why you have clung to your alliance with Isabelle Zehender despite her vicious attacks on the survivors of the Whitmore tragedy.
Hate to think she's got him pussy-whipped or something.. lol..
This is about to get good, isn't it? LOL

All in good time...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)