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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2007, 05:55:06 AM »
Quote from: ""starry-eyed pirate""
Yeah, it's all pretty tricky.  But what I meant was that I spent about 12 ta 15 years, from the time I was 16 'til I was about 32, out of and on the fringe of the greater society.  I was completely socially unstable. Couldn't work a steady job or live in one place long.  I did best on the move, travellin around, 'til I finally ended up in the floodplain with some other outside cats.


I'm not sayin life sucks at all.  Just sayin there are some long shadows castin the coldness of a long time without light, upon me sometimes.  I can't really pretend there are things I don't know...


I know exactly what you mean.  It ain't nothing wrong with you, it's something wrong with them   I've pretty much lived in some form of crash pad or such scene, even had a few places of my own for other deviants to crash at, for most of my adult life.  I tried, really tried, to go mainstream for about two or three years in my early 30s.  Couldn't deal with the bullshit, or at least didn't want to.  Don't like people telling me what to do.  Don't wanna go to jail, either, so I try to strive for a balance.  Besides, those guys are fucked up.  I mean, I'm into getting high and am probably crazy by their standards, but they are fucking whacked.

But you are right, we can't pretend there are things we don't know.  And some of that is very painful knowledge.
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Offline flygirl

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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2007, 06:40:04 AM »
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« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 12:56:03 AM by Guest »

Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2007, 08:19:44 AM »
Hey, don't take it the wrong way, flygirl, I wasn't offended in the least. In no way was I trying to blame or judge you at all. Hell, I admire your ability to have figured the shit out and been aas strong as you were at such a young age.  I wasn't offended, as much as it kind of reminded me of the things I said or did to others while I was there, when I was trying to get by, or "con" as they would say it, so I could get off of first phase and have a nice running start.  That's what made me squirm, really, was it reminded me how fake I had to be while I was doing that, and some of the shit I did to others during that time.  I'm just now kind of coming to grips with that, I guess.  

I don't thing I could hold anything another phaser in there did against them, anything they did to me.  I don't take that as personally as I do the stuff staff members did.  I saw some of them really enjoying themselves as they sadisticxally fucked with people.  I guess the idea that I in any way could have collaborated or even just looked the other way to that shit is what bothers me now.

I'm sorry for your loss, you have my sympathy, you really do, I have lost people too.  I don't use the "love" word 'cause of Straight, the whole "Love Ya, so-and-so".  Doesn't mean I don't feel the emotion, "I just" don't use the word, maybe to avoid abusing it.  Like you, I have survived, and in spite of the occasional bullshit, have had a pretty amazing and wonderful life.  I just don't like thinking that the trajectory was in any way indelibly altered by those fucks at Straight, that they influenced me any more than a year of pain.  Like I became who I am as a reaction to them or something, and is more because of choices I've made, rather than what they did to us there.  I'll take the blame for what I've fucked up, but I want the credit for having been able to have madde the choice to havce fucke dup in the first place, not that it was predetermined by them.

Thanks for the story, that's great.  You showed an incredible presence of mind at a young age in a very stressful situation.  And, most importantly, you never went back there.

I'm sorry you thought I was offended, I wasn't--it just reminded me of my own discomfort on the subject.  I hope you stick around, at least from time to time, and I certainly hope I'm not part of the reason you don't post here more frequently.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
RTP2003 fought in defense of the Old Republic

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2007, 10:03:10 AM »
I went to a different program than Straight, but I enjoy reading Straight/Seed threads because the impact of the experiences are often articulated better here.

I always said that those who fared best in the program were cons in a sense.  They knew from Day One the whole program was a sham and simply conned the cons to survive.  It was harder on those who do not have that insight.

I know my first step in my program was Twilight Zone. There was no denying its horrifying surrealism.   On the other hand, a part of me that was too innocent to accept the reality of the mind fuckery.

Believe it or not, I still feel that way sometimes. It's so difficult to fathom why people strive to control and manipulate to devious extent.  It still surprises me every time... even though I know its out there.  God, do I know.... but it still shocks me every time.  I haven't lost my innocence in a sense... or maybe I'm just stupid.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2007, 10:43:33 AM »
fly girl i have a question for you...what in the world could you have done at 13 to warrent being sent to the 'program'?????I was sent to GT at 15 and my parents became the most dedicated program parents..so scarey..i was truely alone...and felt i had no choice to just 7th step and leave....i went to jr staff...started smoking pot everday then leading rap...i never did drugs before the program......one open meeting i led w/ a male staff member..i cried the entire time kids/parents and staff saw..i was loosing it...i could not stop crying and no one asked me what was wrong...as a staff member i was either crying or high when leading rap..i was just a child myself....i hope i didnt hurt anyone...oh the stories i could tell...if i could only remember.......
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 11:23:01 AM »
Quote from: ""happy to be free""
fly girl i have a question for you...what in the world could you have done at 13 to warrent being sent to the 'program'?????

Nothing but a little prostitution and a triple homicide... actually I think she only shot two people... anyway, it was after she killed them that she got put into Straight..
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2007, 11:30:32 AM »
Quote from: ""happy to be free""
I was sent to GT at 15 and my parents became the most dedicated program parents..so scarey..i was truely alone...and felt i had no choice to just 7th step and leave....i went to jr staff...started smoking pot everday then leading rap...i never did drugs before the program......one open meeting i led w/ a male staff member..i cried the entire time kids/parents and staff saw..i was loosing it...i could not stop crying and no one asked me what was wrong...as a staff member i was either crying or high when leading rap..i was just a child myself....i hope i didnt hurt anyone...oh the stories i could tell...if i could only remember.......

Sorry, what's GT?
Holy shit.. that's fuucked up!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2007, 11:34:25 AM »
oh is that all?????just being a teen????what were her parents thinking????or were they when they sent her away?????
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2007, 11:34:34 AM »
OK. What is it I'm tryin ta get at here.  Not sure if I can articulate the subtlety of my thoughts clearly, 'cause right now my neck hairs are up and I can feel my lip curlin back so my teeth show.

I really do appreciate all the insightful discussion goin on here.  It helps me to understand better.

I went in when I was 16, almost 17.  I, like you, knew right away, what I was dealin with.  I mean after the intake, the strip search and the introduction to group, it's pretty obvious your rights are bein violated and you know that God knows and you know you must escape.  I played along for the first 17 or so hours, even refusing to answer the other kid who came in right after me when he looked down the front row at me and asked me to run for the door with him.  I was intensely studyin the situation and figured I'd have a better opportunity later.  Sorry Harry.

So I observed where I was and looked for weaknesses in the wall.
That night I was locked into a small room in suburban VA, with 4 other boys.  They explained the rules to me as I constantly broke them.  One kid insanely discussed shovin a screwdriver up his ass and how he felt about it.  Fuck!  I was a virgin.  I was horrified.

I ran the next mornin and if I could find the thread I could link you to a whole story of just that particular cop-out attempt.

It was a Sun mornin and I had played it cool all the way...the oldcomer had me by the back of the pants, his middle finger through my beltloop and then twisted so that his hand firmly gripped the back of my jeans and what am I supposed to think 'a' that.  No way!  I was bein threatened.  My life was in danger.  As soon as we got out of the garage I just flew.  He couldn't hold on.  I looked back once and he was on the ground with his arm outstretched after me, his fingers reachin.  I ran through the woods, toward Burke Lake, but I was slowed when I ran through a freshly plowed field and I also was completely amazed at their determination to catch me.  After about a half mile I was nauseous and sick.  I stopped to catch my breath.  Then my oldcomer caught up to me and he was bigger than me and he sat on top of me and threatened to beat me up and told him to go 'head and try.

Then his dad even showed up and together they put me in a double head-lock and dragged me back to the car, which was still in the driveway.  I was confronted all the way to the building and then once at the building I was put into an intake room where I was forced to sit up $tr8 in a chair while I was confronted half the day by all the staff, especially Ingrid.  Then I was re-introduced to group with full cop-out honors, 'Who remembers starry-eyed pirate ???'

Anyway, I already wrote that whole thread before, and I'd pull it up if this site was as navigable as the last one.

So I was stuck.  I was in crisis.  I put in a withdraw and sat with my hand down.  3 days later I was called on and I stood up and some staff member told me my parents would not come to see me and would not speak to me.  I had no recourse at all.  I was cast into $tr8 Inc.

So I played it cool again and waited and bided my time.  I kept marks on my shoe, which I never mentioned to anyone, which were the days I'd been there.  Every night when I wrote my MI I also made a line on my shoe.

I kept puttin in for T & R.  I just wanted to advance so I could run.  But they didn't trust me and so finally on day 64 of first phase I ran from my oldcomer.  As we were gettin out of the van I jumped and ran out into the darkness.  I took him by surprise and there is a whole very interesting thread about this incident as well, which I would link you to if it were not so hard to find.  Anyway I got away but was captured and returned with full cop-out honors again and started over.

In all I copped out 4 different times.  That first one, I don't even count, cause I didn't actually get away. Once off 1st phase and 3 times off 'a' 3rd.  

My whole program(23 months) I was never set back or started over, except for cop-outs and cop-out attempts.  Even though it was completely predictable that I would run, they could never tell when I was 'F.o.S'   They wanted me on staff when I graduated but I told 'em no.  See they finally arrested me for grand theft auto, cause I helped my host-bro steal that work truck on my last cop-out, so I got court-ordered.

I was in group with Steve Mathews.  I knew him.  He was a friend.  I've posted a whole thread about how they pulled me out of group to give me the news.  2 staff members took me into the carpet room where we were alone to tell me he was dead.  They asked me how I felt about that, but I was in shock.  I shrugged and they took me back to group, where I sat unable to speak or move. I grieved alone.

I came out 'a' there kinda like RTP said with what I thought was the truth of our society.  All those things that I heard were so awful about 'ol communist Russia actually happened to me, here in America.  Where is America ??  She does not exist in the way I was conditioned to believe.  She didn't protect me at all.  What I lost is just what I had to give up in order to know the truth, and be strong in my understanding.  All authority is false.  God is in you.

Havin finally got out from such a violent and invasive place, I had a nervous breakdown and spent the following decade wanderin around.  All my refernces gone.  Nothing.

I have traded a lot for what I know.  Patterns give themselves away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2007, 11:48:21 AM »
but it is better to know than not????do you take the white pill or the red one(the matrix) for me its better to know but hard to be around people who took the other pill and want to live in a make believe world...going 'insane' is the sane response...but hard to make sense of it all....i was in growing together in lake worth a second generation straight inc/seed and life staffed it...and pirate i would like to read your stories when you find the links post them please...
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2007, 11:48:56 AM »
Quote from: ""starry-eyed pirate""
I came out 'a' there kinda like RTP said with what I thought was the truth of our society. All those things that I heard were so awful about 'ol communist Russia actually happened to me, here in America. Where is America ?? She does not exist in the way I was conditioned to believe. She didn't protect me at all. What I lost is just what I had to give up in order to know the truth, and be strong in my understanding. All authority is false. God is in you.

Well said. Fuck Straight! :skull:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2007, 11:53:59 AM »
but it is better to know than not????do you take the white pill or the red one(the matrix) for me its better to know but hard to be around people who took the other pill and want to live in a make believe world...going 'insane' is the sane response...but hard to make sense of it all....i was in growing together in lake worth a second generation straight inc/seed and life staffed it...and pirate i would like to read your stories when you find the links post them please...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2007, 12:04:12 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""starry-eyed pirate""
I came out 'a' there kinda like RTP said with what I thought was the truth of our society. All those things that I heard were so awful about 'ol communist Russia actually happened to me, here in America. Where is America ?? She does not exist in the way I was conditioned to believe. She didn't protect me at all. What I lost is just what I had to give up in order to know the truth, and be strong in my understanding. All authority is false. God is in you.
Well said. Fuck Straight! :skull:


Right on Froderik.   :skull:  ::bandit::  :skull:
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2007, 01:30:43 PM »
...And so... this, then, is a dilemma:

Having come to recognize and understand the real values of American society which manifested themselves so plainly, in the form of $tr8 Inc. and having since recognized the same fascist and unjust dynamic in all institutions of authority, what does one do ??  The program is the whole western-market economy. I am between a rock and a hard place here.   I try to have as little to do as possible with the society whose values are criminal, but I cannot live a pure life and I struggle with the weight of my experience...and it's not just a moral issue... the whole idea of supporting the society that serial mind-raped us and committed such heinous crimes against us is repulsive to me.  I cannot betray justice that way.
 

Thoreau wrote: "Let your life be a friction against the machine" and I would add: and let your friction be subtle, patient and unattached to the end, otherwise the suffering may be to great and perhaps you shouldn't investigate.

The program is on the outside.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline flygirl

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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2007, 01:35:50 PM »
Quote from: ""RTP2003""
Hey, don't take it the wrong way, flygirl, I wasn't offended in the least. In no way was I trying to blame or judge you at all. Hell, I admire your ability to have figured the shit out and been aas strong as you were at such a young age.  I wasn't offended, as much as it kind of reminded me of the things I said or did to others while I was there, when I was trying to get by, or "con" as they would say it, so I could get off of first phase and have a nice running start.  That's what made me squirm, really, was it reminded me how fake I had to be while I was doing that, and some of the shit I did to others during that time.  I'm just now kind of coming to grips with that, I guess.  

I don't thing I could hold anything another phaser in there did against them, anything they did to me.  I don't take that as personally as I do the stuff staff members did.  I saw some of them really enjoying themselves as they sadisticxally fucked with people.  I guess the idea that I in any way could have collaborated or even just looked the other way to that shit is what bothers me now.

I'm sorry for your loss, you have my sympathy, you really do, I have lost people too.  I don't use the "love" word 'cause of Straight, the whole "Love Ya, so-and-so".  Doesn't mean I don't feel the emotion, "I just" don't use the word, maybe to avoid abusing it.  Like you, I have survived, and in spite of the occasional bullshit, have had a pretty amazing and wonderful life.  I just don't like thinking that the trajectory was in any way indelibly altered by those fucks at Straight, that they influenced me any more than a year of pain.  Like I became who I am as a reaction to them or something, and is more because of choices I've made, rather than what they did to us there.  I'll take the blame for what I've fucked up, but I want the credit for having been able to have madde the choice to havce fucke dup in the first place, not that it was predetermined by them.

Thanks for the story, that's great.  You showed an incredible presence of mind at a young age in a very stressful situation.  And, most importantly, you never went back there.

I'm sorry you thought I was offended, I wasn't--it just reminded me of my own discomfort on the subject.  I hope you stick around, at least from time to time, and I certainly hope I'm not part of the reason you don't post here more frequently.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 12:48:24 AM by Guest »