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Author Topic: Suicide at AAA  (Read 16838 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2007, 07:45:10 PM »
 I organized the data to include just those children who attended Wilderness and TBS, for those parents who are interested in looking at those distinct areas.

I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.

NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes available I will add the figures in.


You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001   -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides   , 2,959 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002   -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides   , 2,868 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003   -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides   , 2,846 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004   -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides   , 2,722 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
 NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s....  All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2007, 08:07:19 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
PLEASE ignore The Who, it just junks up the threads and keeps people from reading on.

Hey, that was uncalled for...we have been sitting thru all your posts and bumps, why not PM people instead of bothering us.


Sorry, I meant the trolls who argue with the Who. it just makes it so hard to wade through all this stuff. I'm just trying to help PB Mom collect info. If you have information, Mr. Who, by all means, I'm listening.
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Offline Anonymous

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2007, 08:23:17 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
 I organized the data to include just those children who attended Wilderness and TBS, for those parents who are interested in looking at those distinct areas.

I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.

NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes available I will add the figures in.


You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001   -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides   , 2,959 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002   -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides   , 2,868 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003   -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides   , 2,846 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004   -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides   , 2,722 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... ORIAM.html[/url]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2007, 08:25:31 PM »
Because the Who pulls shit out of his ass.   The Who is nothing more than a program shill doing damage control with bullshit *statistics* that he so loosely plays with.
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Offline Anonymous

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2007, 08:40:29 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
 I organized the data to include just those children who attended Wilderness and TBS, for those parents who are interested in looking at those distinct areas.

I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.


OK, now I see this disclaimer at the beginning of your post. But why would you want to make the numbers look pretty good?
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Offline TheWho

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2007, 09:04:41 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
 I organized the data to include just those children who attended Wilderness and TBS, for those parents who are interested in looking at those distinct areas.

I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.

OK, now I see this disclaimer at the beginning of your post. But why would you want to make the numbers look pretty good?


Well, because it has been the perception all along that TBS’s are a haven for kids who are at risk.  But if you look at the industry as a whole the numbers are higher than one would expect.  But “The industryâ€
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Offline TheWho

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2007, 09:10:19 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
PLEASE ignore The Who, it just junks up the threads and keeps people from reading on.

Hey, that was uncalled for...we have been sitting thru all your posts and bumps, why not PM people instead of bothering us.

Sorry, I meant the trolls who argue with the Who. it just makes it so hard to wade through all this stuff. I'm just trying to help PB Mom collect info. If you have information, Mr. Who, by all means, I'm listening.


It is hard to wade thru some of this stuff sometimes.....  I do not have any information for you on what you are looking for but if I come across anything that has been made public or has been released, I will post it here in this thread for you.
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Offline Anonymous

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2007, 09:29:06 PM »
Deb gave a number of thirty-something before, many of the kills being wilderness.

Since this is only the ones we know about, the real number is probably higher than that.

Of course, Who's masters won't let him recognize this, so he has no option but to constantly repost the same amount of shit.

But it never stops being shit.

(BTW, this is really, really OLD. Like the moon-hoaxers, Who has been so thoroughly debunked that the only reason you don't see more people arguing with him is that we've splattered him already.)
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Offline Anonymous

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2007, 09:34:54 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
 I organized the data to include just those children who attended Wilderness and TBS, for those parents who are interested in looking at those distinct areas.

I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.

OK, now I see this disclaimer at the beginning of your post. But why would you want to make the numbers look pretty good?


Well, because it has been the perception all along that TBS’s are a haven for kids who are at risk.  But if you look at the industry as a whole the numbers are higher than one would expect.  But “The industryâ€
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Offline Deborah

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Re: IMPORTANT ! ! ! !
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2007, 10:11:36 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Can ANYONE post a link to any news article about a 2007 suicide at AAA? I cannot find it anywere on the net, only an attempted suicide some years back.


The Licensing Rep confirmed the suicide and recommended contacting the program for details.  :rofl:

From : Kent Callister
Sent : Monday, August 6, 2007 10:49 AM
To : "D"
CC : "Gil Hallows"
Subject : Re: AAA
The report is correct. You may want to contact Gil Hallows, director of the
program, concerning the death. His number is 435-836-2472


>>> "D" 8/4/2007 10:01 AM >>>
Hello Mr Callister,
I am contacting you regarding Aspen Achievement Academy and a report that there was recently a suicide there involving a young man who allegedly hung himself.
Given that you are the licensing rep for AAA I was hoping you would be able to confirm or dispell this report.

~~~
You could contact a local journalist and ask them to investigate and report. Otherwise, you need to contact Mr Kent and/or the local police, but good luck getting anything from Gil Hallows.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2007, 10:20:44 PM »
Ellen Behrens was Dir of Youth Care
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=218077#218077

Prior to setting up "Evidence Based Consulting" and "partnering" with YC to conduct "independent" research
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=215887#215887
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline hanzomon4

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2007, 10:23:25 PM »
These numbers don't mean jack because
  • It's not % based. Of course the numbers will be lower then the public sector because TBS kids account for such a small number of kids compared to the public sector. However even a % based comparison would be meaningless unless you knew how many kids were enrolled in TBS schools.
  • Things like suicide due to trauma can take years to playout. Many former Straight kids killed themselves because of the abuse in Straight, but not many(or even any?) killed themselves while in Straight. Who ignores these deaths
  • Can we really compare deaths in the tightly controlled environment of programs with those that happen out in the free world? The two or like apples and oranges really. A kid dying under the watchful eye of trained professionals means a lot more shit went wrong as opposed to a similar death in the free world.
  • Abuse, even extreme abuse, does not equal deaths in program. How many kids died in High impact, or Straight? Were these programs safe/not abusive? Hell no!!!


These are some of the reasons I believe parents should ignore who's bs statistics If they read "my kid will be safe in a program" out of those numbers.
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2007, 10:42:43 PM »
Who is GIL HALLOWS?
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Offline hanzomon4

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2007, 10:46:07 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who is GIL HALLOWS?
Director of AAA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline TheWho

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Suicide at AAA
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2007, 10:55:36 PM »
Quote from: ""Hanzoman4""
It's not % based. Of course the numbers will be lower then the public sector because TBS kids account for such a small number of kids compared to the public sector. However even a % based comparison would be meaningless unless you knew how many kids were enrolled in TBS schools.
Yes and I think parents realize this when viewing the numbers.  Having numbers as low as 1 or 2 doesn’t really require a percentage in my opinion.  If we were seeing a step function increase over a short period of say 2 years to 4 or 5 students then I think we would need to take a closer look to see if we were exceeding the public sector numbers (on a percentage basis as you had indicated).  We could start applying a percentage when we determine how many kids are in the wilderness and TBS schools.  This may be something an organization like NATSAP may be able to supply at some point.  But the numbers are not available right now.

Quote from: ""Hanzoman4""
Things like suicide due to trauma can take years to playout. Many former Straight kids killed themselves because of the abuse in Straight, but not many(or even any?) killed themselves while in Straight. Who ignores these deaths
Well, they are not ignored, just not available.  How do we quantify the number of kids who would have committed suicide if they had not been helped by the TBS or wilderness (or kids who the program didn’t help and take their own life later (a wash)).  Many of these kids have attempted to take their own lives prior to attending these schools.  The public sector doesn’t capture this information either, the NCES doesn’t track the suicide rates of kids after graduation years later, so there would be nothing to compare the numbers to.
Quote from: ""Hanzoman4""
Can we really compare deaths in the tightly controlled environment of programs with those that happen out in the free world? The two or like apples and oranges really. A kid dying under the watchful eye of trained professionals means a lot more shit went wrong as opposed to a similar death in the free world.

Well, I think we can…many parents are looking for this “watchful eyeâ€
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