Why foreigner take more interest in this topic than Mericans

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is an Islamic war against all who are not a member of  that "religion", just look at every fucking conflict around the  world, almost every one is Muslim related, be it the WTC, Pentagon,  the slaughter of Sudanese Christians, the slaughter of Russian  schoolchildren, etc.  It is amazing (or maybe not considering our  politicians only care about enriching themselves and taxing us to  death) we still let this murderous trash into the U.S. and don't  routinely kill these 7th-century goat fuckers, sew pigskins to, and  stuff pork products in the mouths of their terrorist corpses and  leave these displays in front every mosque worldwide.  No response  from the "peaceful", "true practicioners" of this group, a lame,  pathetic letter to the editor once in a blue moon.  Where have the  marches with millions of U.S. muslims protesting against their  terroristic brethren?  Fat chance, the majority (>50%) of these  people are involved in, support and/or fund terror worldwide.

If you think I'm angry, you're damn right, if someone is threatening  you and your family you take action, fuck trying to reason with  them.  I was at 9/11 and also there for the bombing in '93 - you  don't play with these people, just fucking smash them in the mouth  and kick in their heads as that is all they understand.

[Anonymous]

American parents don't willingly spend these huge sums of money to have their kids punished or abused -- they do it because they believe their child will come out of it healthier and better prepared to pursue that American Dream that we are all brainwashed into believing we need and should desire.

I think it's worse than that. I think "the industry", meaning the parents involved, the companies and staff, and even the students who graduate and unknowingly market and trumpet the success of such programs. I think that group of people we call the troubled teen industry, is shaping the way we view coercion, abuse and punishment toward teenagers. In the early nineties boot camps were all the rage, scared straight mentality for short periods of time to "shock" the kids back into shape. That was then deemed "unenlightened" by the newly crowned intellectuals of this industry, and a new path is being forged, which includes a lot more mind fucking and psychological coercion, and seemingly less physical abuse. So called advocates seek to purge the visible abuse from the system, to asuage their own disgust and guilt. But what these people don't seem to understand, is the unseen torture going on in the minds and psyches of the kids who enter this god forsaken industry. It's not the unnecessary restraints, fights, and other physical assaults I remember from my days being locked away, it's the destruction of my old self. That teenager who looked upon the world with wide eyes of conquering ability, unshaken with all the potential and drive and creativity. Only to be told that's no good, and have it slowly stripped away, until all I could say was how grateful I was to my parents and the program for saving my life from my old self. What parents view as emotional outbursts when their kid sees them is not because they miss them and out of love, well it is sort of. It's the sight of anyone from the goddamn real world, with the power to get you out. You want a groveling, subserviant, apologetic kid, sure.. put them in a horribly stressful psychologically torturing environment. Watch as the kids hair falls out, their sexual desires cease to exist, girls stop having their periods, people start pulling their hair out, cutting themselves, taking anger out on others , suicide or embracing the program to find some level of comfort and acceptance from the authority figures you beat you down relentlessly... just because you hold back their arm doesn't mean they still can't do damage.

My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is an Islamic war against all who are not a member of  that "religion", just look at every fucking conflict around the  world, almost every one is Muslim related, be it the WTC, Pentagon,  the slaughter of Sudanese Christians, the slaughter of Russian  schoolchildren, etc.  It is amazing (or maybe not considering our  politicians only care about enriching themselves and taxing us to  death) we still let this murderous trash into the U.S. and don't  routinely kill these 7th-century goat fuckers, sew pigskins to, and  stuff pork products in the mouths of their terrorist corpses and  leave these displays in front every mosque worldwide.  No response  from the "peaceful", "true practicioners" of this group, a lame,  pathetic letter to the editor once in a blue moon.  Where have the  marches with millions of U.S. muslims protesting against their  terroristic brethren?  Fat chance, the majority (>50%) of these  people are involved in, support and/or fund terror worldwide.

If you think I'm angry, you're damn right, if someone is threatening  you and your family you take action, fuck trying to reason with  them.  I was at 9/11 and also there for the bombing in '93 - you  don't play with these people, just fucking smash them in the mouth  and kick in their heads as that is all they understand.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. My country has been fighting these fuckups ever since they declared war on us back in 1948.

What I'm trying to say with the "ME culture" comment is that the US seems blind to any Muslim aggression that goes on. The PC culture has completely paralyzed them.

[Karass]

My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.

I completely agree. My point about parents being misled was simply that they are conned into believing that the program will help, not hurt their kid. I think most of them overlook the fundamental diseased thinking from which it all starts -- the notion that "I want my kid to be the way I want him to be, not the way he wants to be." But they don't willingly put their kid in a program with the expectation that he will come out more damaged than when he went in.

[Ganja]

You're preaching to the choir, brother. My country has been fighting these fuckups ever since they declared war on us back in 1948.

What I'm trying to say with the "ME culture" comment is that the US seems blind to any Muslim aggression that goes on. The PC culture has completely paralyzed them.

Yeah. ::puke::

Fucking sick how most of us have been "guilted" into feeling like 9/11 was our fault. Maybe it was in some ways, so the fuck what, does that warrant us being a panty-waist guilt-ridden bunch of PUSSIES about it now? NO, it doesn't! Bin Laden and his cronies should have been rounded up and then beheaded on national television for our viewing pleasure right after that fucking happened!! But thanks to Bush's scandalousness, Bin Laden and his entire family walked. No one was ever interrogated about anything!!

[Anonymous]

Those poor impoverished arabs forced to turn to violence because they don't have access to western schooling, jobs and literature. Let's bomb them with Shakespeare and Ipods and that will end terrorism!  :roll:

(this is the prevailing wisdom of the foreign policy elites it would seem)

[Anonymous]

My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.

I completely agree. My point about parents being misled was simply that they are conned into believing that the program will help, not hurt their kid. I think most of them overlook the fundamental diseased thinking from which it all starts -- the notion that "I want my kid to be the way I want him to be, not the way he wants to be." But they don't willingly put their kid in a program with the expectation that he will come out more damaged than when he went in.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen a parent post here and say "OMG I am SO disgusted at the thought of coercive therapy, it is inconsistent with a free society, and will do long term damage to my kid!". What I do see parents saying is how they are horrified by the tales of physical abuse, sexual abuse, isolation, seminars, peer vs peer manipulation.

Now what if a wilderness or residential program was EXACTLY how it was described in it's marketing literature? Would that make it any more legitimate? Still run by the same unqualified people, still using the same unproven methods of "therapy"?

I think you are right, parents are SURPRISED at the tales of abuse, torture, isolation and the violence associated with private imprisonment. But, they are not duped into the program as described, which in itself should be setting off alarm bells.

I guess I am just concerned that once "the advocates" are satisfied that visible abuse is gone, that will be it. Case closed. Nobody seems to address the fact that it's all bullshit. If I started a Aryan Summer camp based on Nazi ideology, I would get in deep shit and a lot of criticism. So why not private prison camps based on North Korean Communist coercive ideology? Why is there such a disconnect from the REAL discussion most times?

I am not harping on you specifically.. just typing my thoughts.. puff here and there you know how it is.

[Anonymous]

You know what, I have to take back something. Parents are not surprised at isolation, seminars and peer vs peer. Because those are all explained int he program literature. They aren't familiar with these terms, which we use in reality. They know words like "special needs", "emotional growth seminars", and "positive peer culture with accountability". It's not that they are fooled, the truth is there, plain to see in black and white for any parent thinking about using this service. They choose to believe what they want, and then act surprised. I say bullshit. Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.

[Ganja]

Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.

 ::nod::  ::rocker::  ::fuckoff::  :tup:

[AtomicAnt]

You know what, I have to take back something. Parents are not surprised at isolation, seminars and peer vs peer. Because those are all explained int he program literature. They aren't familiar with these terms, which we use in reality. They know words like "special needs", "emotional growth seminars", and "positive peer culture with accountability". It's not that they are fooled, the truth is there, plain to see in black and white for any parent thinking about using this service. They choose to believe what they want, and then act surprised. I say bullshit. Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.

The program literature is capable of deceiving anyone in a hurry that does not engage some pretty subtle critical reading skills. Most parents really don't know what an "emotional growth seminar" is. It just sounds like a good thing. They don't really understand that a "positive peer culture with accountability" translates into group consequences and child led verbal confrontations which include shouting obsenities, and name calling. I sincerely doubt most parents would translate "structure" to "total control" as in milieu control, or that "removing a child from his comfort zone" means "breaking the child's will."

The websites and literature describe these programs as being gentle and loving and give the appearance that your child will actually enjoy being there. Once the truth comes out, parents are informed of the "necessity" of the harshness and how their children both need and deserve to be treated this way.

The parents are sucked into it, step-by-step. Some see it and avoid the programs. Some see it later and pull their children out. Some buy into the cult-like thinking that only the program can save their child's life.

As detestable and useless as boot camps are, they are honest about their intentions.

[Oz girl]

The websites and literature describe these programs as being gentle and loving and give the appearance that your child will actually enjoy being there. Once the truth comes out, parents are informed of the "necessity" of the harshness and how their children both need and deserve to be treated this way.

The parents are sucked into it, step-by-step. Some see it and avoid the programs. Some see it later and pull their children out. Some buy into the cult-like thinking that only the program can save their child's life.

As detestable and useless as boot camps are, they are honest about their intentions.

I would have to disagree a little there Ant. When I first stumbled across this whole dirty industry one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb was how mean spirited many of even the kinder, gentler places seemed. So many used words like entitled and manipulative that to me they seemed designed to be both punitive as well as "therapeudic". I had imagined that the idea at least of a wilderness camp was a noble one and thhat the idea was to give confidence from achievement until website after website promoted the idea that this was about making the young person see the error of their ways. I had never seen such an approach or philosophy toward youth mental health, substance abuse or social issues. While wwasp was at the extreme end, they all shared the idea that the problems young people face were about the fact that the kids were not accountable for their own actions and that they were an immediate danger to themselves and the community. It also shocked me that many of the "nicer" places encouraged having a kid escorted by strangers. It struck me as inhumane and unhelpful.
What they seemed to be appealing to was the thought that a lot of normal parents probably have when their kid has done something to really piss them off which is anlong the lines of "Ill show the little bastard". If you convince someone that this line of thought is threapeudic then they dont have to calm down and think of other options.

[Anonymous]

Oz Girl?

It's spelled Therapeutic.

(sorry, that one was really getting on my nerves...)

[Ganja]

I know! I've seen LAWYERS misspell this word; it's truly appalling! Says a lot for our universities.

[Anonymous]

Blame their parents for buying hooked on phonics... remember that fucking commercial?

[Ganja]

Blame their parents for buying hooked on phonics... remember that fucking commercial?

Hmm... yeah, I think so.

So that's a phuqued method of teaching, I take it... very well.