Why foreigner take more interest in this topic than Mericans

[Anonymous]

You know what I am talking about, don't you?

 :question:  :question:  :question:  :question:  :question:  :question:

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).

This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.

The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.

[Nihilanthic]

IMHO Europe learned its lesson from the Nazis, and the Soviets a lot better than us merikans did.

[Covergaard]

A lot of the stuff we Danes have to endure in our daily life are comming from the States.

Just today a police chief calls for longer terms to youth with non-danish ethnic background, when they commit a crime.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5947694.html (Sorry the news are in Danish, but after the Cartoon crisis we dont translate our news in order to avoid insulting the rest of the world.)

Our Navy - very unemployed after the downfall of eastern europe and the failure of a lot of muslim countries to gather a fleet which we could sink - has asked for permission to create a program like
Eagle academy http://www.pbso.org/eagleacademy/ It was even features in a Danish magazine this week.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5317135.html (About the program in Danish targeted for youth and young adults 16-24 years of age with misdemeanours.)

Where did they get it from? Of course from the States with their imbalance in the prison pobulation regarding races and the states are the father of boot camps.

So why are we interested? We want to protect our culture and keep our superiority regarding rehabilitate delinquents back to society intact.

[Anonymous]

They secretly wished they lived in the states.

[MightyAardvark]

It wouldn't annoy me as much in a shitty third world backwoods nowhere (like Germany)  but frankly America ought to know better and frankly it's a huge disappointment.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).

This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.

The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.

Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.

[Anonymous]

Face it, fuckheads- bombs are about the only solution to this ever-proliferating problem. :skull:

[MightyAardvark]

It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).

This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.

The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.

Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.

I'll tell you this, I'm the most americanophile person that I know and at the moment I find it hard to defend your government, a lot of your laws and a good many of your social and political institutions.

[Anonymous]

Well nobody likes our government... nobody. America is a culture, and that culture includes a very anti govt attitude, even though cognitive dissonance reigns these days and people seek help from the govt. Katrina helped visualize the effectiveness of the government for most people though. That and watching a city being left in ruin, while a president announces a marshall socialist rebuilding plan for a country on the other side of the world, that will be burned down again anyways. Americans dont disagree so much with you about the govt. But watch around election time now.. the brainwashing begins and everyone becomes political and regurgitates the talking points they heard on TV, and fight over stupid social issues and the nation gets divided hardcore once again..terrify, divide and conquer.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).

This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.

The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.

Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.

America is composed of so many sub-cultures, so many people and places and ways of life, I can't call it all bad... what I do find bad about all of this is that America is disconnected from the outside world in so many ways (a friend of mine calls it the "rat in a cage phenomenon"-- you trap a bunch of rats in a cage, keep 'em there for a long time w/o much contact with the outside world, and they eventually go crazy). Its people are so cut off from outside influence, it's like you guys are rotting in your own shit sometimes.

The wrapper is only attractive to those who either a. graduated from (and bought into) one of these programs; b. people who, deep inside, believe in the ideas this industry is based on, the Great American Power Show. (Most) Americans seem to love this shit.

As for the progress... I hope you are right. I really, really hope you're right.

(this post turned out to be somewhat confused, hope you get my point. I am not writing this in an attempt to bash the US or anything-- just writing what I'm thinking when I look thru all this mess).

[Anonymous]

I was just curious how this place looked to those from an outside perspective... if you hate america and everything it stands for thats okay with me.. i find it very enlightening and entertaining as well to read other peoples perspectives about this country. helps me realize sometimes of my own programming that i never even knew existed.

to be honest i am surprised that anyone outside the US even speaks American.. I thought you all spok-e french or arabic or something?  :wink:

[Karass]

It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).

I think that only a small minority of American parents agree with or practice the drill-sergeant mentality and the idea that children need to be "put in their place" or "broken down and re-built." If anything, the industry relies on the much higher percentage of American parents who are overly protective, unable or unwilling to let their children grow up and be independent, who are excessively worried and fearful about the future consequences of their child's behaviors and attitudes when those behaviors and attitudes are so different from the parents' own.

There is a lot of pressure for conformity to social and cultural norms. Consider that this is a society in which beauty, money, power, fame, youthfulness and accumulation of material possessions are the "prize" to be relentlessly pursued, as our media  remind us many times every day. That is a huge expectation and burden to put on young people (or adults, for that matter). Some parents see "problems" that need to be "fixed" when their child rejects those values and makes choices that are inconsistent with the pursuit of that American Dream.

This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.

Very very few Americans are even aware that these programs exist. Among the few who are aware, even fewer believe the reality of how these places operate and what they do to kids. American parents don't willingly spend these huge sums of money to have their kids punished or abused -- they do it because they believe their child will come out of it healthier and better prepared to pursue that American Dream that we are all brainwashed into believing we need and should desire.

The 'cult' aspect of many (most) of these programs, and the fact that Americans in particular get sucked into them is not too surprising. Americans have a 400 year history with cults, beginning with a group of deviants that held socially unacceptable religious beliefs and were basically kicked out of the civilized countries of Europe. Ever since then, cults have had a unique place in the collective American psyche. Not entirely viewed positively -- especially not when they were labeled as "cults" -- but not entirely shunned or viewed negatively either. There has historically been a certain acceptance and understanding in the U.S. of the notion that a group of people could go off together to a new place that is outside the mainstream society, so they could live as they wanted to live without the government or others telling them what to do.

Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

People both inside and outside the U.S. get a very distorted, filtered view of what goes on in this country. There are so many diverse sub-cultures and people of all races, religions and nationalities that it's really difficult to even define what is "American society" -- except of course for that media definition about the pursuit of money, beauty, fame, etc. I don't believe that we as a society are turning against our young people, and I think that as the bright light of the truth shines more and more on these programs, good old-fashioned American outrage at injustice will be incited and the programs will be very much on the defensive.

The biggest auto crashes (I prefer "train wrecks") are in our aggressive foreign policy and in the polarization between the right & left (or more correctly, between the right and 'everyone else'). Not only do the majority of Americans disapprove of Bush's policies, but nearly a third of all Americans wish the Bush presidency would simply end right now. That's a healthy sign that we are moving in the right direction. I wouldn't write us off just yet...

[Anonymous]

I was just curious how this place looked to those from an outside perspective... if you hate america and everything it stands for thats okay with me.. i find it very enlightening and entertaining as well to read other peoples perspectives about this country. helps me realize sometimes of my own programming that i never even knew existed.

to be honest i am surprised that anyone outside the US even speaks American.. I thought you all spok-e french or arabic or something?  :wink:

I don't hate America. If anything, I'm curious about it. I'm trying to figure it out, I guess...

As for speaking American-- how could I speak anything else? the TV here is saturated w/ shows imported from the US. I spent a lot of my childhood watching Ricki Lake and Married with Children  
I don't speak French (I hate that little shitty country  :evil: ), and I only speak fundamental Arabic, like most people here.

I find these conversation enlightening, too.

[Anonymous]

70sPunkRebel-- thanks for this post. You raise a lot of very good points I didn't think about. And I hope that America is making moves in the right direction.

It's a pretty amazing duality. On one hand, there's this immense pressure to conform and achieve-- and all this coming from a culture which historically respects people's right to choose their own destiny.

I'm going to have to do a lot more thinking and reading about this one.

As for your foreign policy-- I think the basic problem is a complete lack of understanding of ME culture and ways of thinking. I hope I'm wrong on this one.