Author Topic: ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...  (Read 28646 times)

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Offline wayeast

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ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2003, 11:51:00 AM »
I skim these pages rather than reading every post, so I'm not clear on all of the inter-relationships.  Am I correct in understanding that Powerful Attitude was a Straightling at one time?

Having taken that route myself, I'm curious to know whether he feels any cognitive dissonance over his point of view: that anyone who disagrees with him disagrees with God.  P.A. isn't able to see the arrogance of this, because he's let himself be convinced that he's being loyal to a higher power. He might humbly state that he knows very little in the grand scheme of things, but he knows Jesus, and that's all he needs to know.  

It's disturbing that he can't see the similarity between his own attitude and that of the Straight founders, but is it really surprising?  When we're under stress, we go to the things with which we are familiar. An abused child will want to stay with the abusive parent because they are familiar.  Maybe this is why so many of us leave one cult for another.  

I personally think P.A. *has* to keep sharing his faith, because if he ever stops, he'll see that it is based on fear and whipped air. Only by converting others can he comfort himself that he's got the Truth.
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Offline Powerful Attitude

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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2003, 12:56:00 PM »

On 2003-04-13 08:51:00, wayeast wrote:

"I skim these pages rather than reading every post, so I'm not clear on all of the inter-relationships.  Am I correct in understanding that Powerful Attitude was a Straightling at one time?

Having taken that route myself, I'm curious to know whether he feels any cognitive dissonance over his point of view: that anyone who disagrees with him disagrees with God.  P.A. isn't able to see the arrogance of this, because he's let himself be convinced that he's being loyal to a higher power. He might humbly state that he knows very little in the grand scheme of things, but he knows Jesus, and that's all he needs to know.  

It's disturbing that he can't see the similarity between his own attitude and that of the Straight founders, but is it really surprising?  When we're under stress, we go to the things with which we are familiar. An abused child will want to stay with the abusive parent because they are familiar.  Maybe this is why so many of us leave one cult for another.  

I personally think P.A. *has* to keep sharing his faith, because if he ever stops, he'll see that it is based on fear and whipped air. Only by converting others can he comfort himself that he's got the Truth.
"


Oh, Really.

As it is written "there are the WEAK and there are the strong. I have no doubt about the truth and it is pointless to talk to those with no ears. Just like this forum we didn't have it for seventeen years until recently. "We were given eyes to see and ears that hear and given a heart to understand the Truth". This is the way Jesus works. Not until his time and only if you?re looking or until it is given.  If they do not listen it is because I am not in them.  It makes since to me. I know not ya'll.

Anyone good at math? When I was 25 I had my own construction business and I was studying blue prints to figure out how to build a perfect house. I noticed that the slash marks (measurements) on the south side of the print 45% to the west. The west side to the north, the north to the east, the east to the south. What does that spell, a square, and then a square within a square and so on. To keep it short it was gravity, the laws of gravity that is. Anyway, I kept working with the angles for days and days until I came out of a trance and said for it is "equal". That is what God said so I have found God. Oh I forget to say that my friend and I could feel a strange presence in the air, we were searching for forgotten knowledge. We found a book the next day on 4th dimensions. It said, " This book will help you to obtain forgotten knowledge. Anyway, I made this little box, a square within a square, within a square. The numbers worked really well within the box so I liked to show it off.

Anyway, it is a very long story but the point I am making is this. One day the sky was red and that presence we had felt got very ugly indeed and the presence of demons had come upon us. I ran around for three days like this fighting the fucking demons and screaming about the fire, pure fucking hell brothers. So on the fourth day a bible was delivered into my hands and it began to speak " the parable of the sower". Then it said, "you do not worship those things made by your own hands nor do we burn incense unto it". I used to love that stuff (incense). Then it said, " I will throw you in the furnace to test you to see if you will worship them or me", "They are taken in their angle", "Disobedient children".

I could go on but I think you get the picture. One day we will all get to fight for our souls. Good luck. Have you heard that He will baptize you with fire?

So any of my fans out there, oh I mean my personal straight trainers. It is funny to see all the psychologists in here. Do you believe ya'll can really HELP anyone? There are the lost and there are the found. :rofl:

P.A.

[ This Message was edited by: Powerful Attitude on 2003-04-18 09:57 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2003, 06:38:00 PM »
Put that last one here.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2003, 07:26:00 AM »
Powerful Attitude

All you have is belief and no facts.  Have you died lately?  Been to the other side?  NO

You can believe what you want.  But you don't KNOW what happens when you die.  Only what you have read or been told.  

Acting like you know when you don't just shows how typical religious nuts can be.  You think you got it all figured out.  

I don't think it's that simple.
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Offline Carmel

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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2003, 11:19:00 AM »
Normally, I try and stay off of religious discussions because they can get positively rabid in no time flat.  However, Id like to add here that although I do not profess to be a Christian, I have an extensive background in it and have come to the following conclusions (personally)....

I believe that Spirituality is very basic, and a relationship with "God" is within each one of us, and not to be gained from attending church 5 nights a week or donating 10% of our income to Him every month.

I believe that if Jesus were alive today, he would be rather ashamed of what has become of his teachings and the way people have lost the true meanings of love, understanding, compassion and openess....and replaced them with pride, greed, and judgement.

There is corruption in each and every religion, its not Christianity alone, however I still believe that there are people of each faith who posses within them the true spirituality that "God" intended for us all.

When we claim to know the "Truth", and judge others for not sharing in our personal version of the Truth,  that is intolerance.  I do not claim to be privy to the ultimate "Truth" because I do not speak directly to "God".  However, I recognize peace and harmony within my soul which tells me that "God" is communing with me at His pace and at His leisure.  I do not assume to be so arrogant that what is real and meanigful to me, should be the same for all those around me or they are lost.  I also do not assume that my spiritual growth is anywhere near complete or at a point of enlightenment.

Finally,

Life is a very beautiful gift, we were meant to use this time to learn as imperfect beings, to experience sin and righteousness and learn the lessons that each of these will teach us.  We must not strive to perfection, as much as we should strive to fulfill "God's" wish to take this gift we have been given and experience it to the fullest.

I burn incense everyday, and not to worship false idols or any such thing.  I do it because I take pleasure in my own senses, of which were given to me as part of my gift of life.  I think it is insulting to "God" to pretend that we are less than human and more like the divine in the hopes that we may someday share in that divinity.  In doing so we are missing the point entirely.

Just my thoughts.  







[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2003-04-21 08:22 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2003, 12:28:00 PM »
NAG CHAMPA?
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Offline not a fuckhead

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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2003, 01:55:00 PM »
Free thinking is the rejection of religious influence in human life.  You merely have to realize that priests, ministers and other religious con artists give no justification for their views, which are typically manipulative and degrading.  Some may also reject all superstitious or supernatural beliefs, while others believe there may be something supernatural out there. All  should reject claims that we must believe in, appease, or establish a "relationship" with such forces in order to be "saved" or benefited in some way. We see that humans are vulnerable to these beliefs, and believe it is up to us to speak out against them. Thus ?free thinking? can be thought of as living without superstitious attitudes and behaviors.  ,
But isn't it arrogant to think that we are so great that we can do it all without God?
Yes, it is. Would that make you feel guilty for thinking that way? Why? Did your minister tell you it's bad to be arrogant? Is there a difference between a little arrogance (maybe really only confidence) and more extreme, self-centered arrogance? Must we always be at one extreme to avoid the opposite extreme? A little arrogance won't hurt you. Try it.
 You can do your life all by yourself, with a little help from your friends.
 Religion provides simple answers to questions great and small (usually the same simple answer). Free thought promotes Wonder instead. We should accept the lack of absolute purpose in living and see our responsibility as humans to search for the answers to all our questions, and create our own moral principles (for example, in the US Constitution.)
 These principles are based on what we have left without gods; instincts and environment. Nature and nurture. Contrary to religious teaching, humans are not born bad. We are born complex. We do have selfish impulses, but we also want approval and acceptance from parents and others around us. The complex (and somewhat unknown) interactions between our impulses and our upbringing are what guides our morality, not original sin and covenants.
 Nor do we need to be purified, cleansed, or in any way made perfect. We do not need to apologize for who we are or for the things we've done. Bad deeds can only be atoned for by trying our best to make up for them; no amount of apologizing to holy ghosts ought to make us feel any better.
 Psychologists overwhelmingly reject religious models of human morality, and with good reason.  
Geneticists overwhelmingly reject biblical creation theories. They find that we have a strong family relationship with primates, particularly the chimpanzee. The fact that our genes are almost identical with the chimps is confirmed by numerous labs using far more reliable tests than even a creationist judge would need to conclusively prove a paternity case in court.
 For those who accept evolution: Is it likely that a creator would use an evolutionary process to create humans over hundreds of millions of years, and then fawn over us as his little hatchlings, only to sternly judge us based on how much we worship him?
 When ministers make claims like these, and then add that it's sinful even to doubt these claims, it's your responsibility to stand up for yourself and doubt them anyway. Can anyone convince you of nonsense just by telling you your afterlife depends on you believing it?
 Religions abuse your mind and your heart. You must have the courage to doubt yours.
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Offline METALGOD8

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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2003, 02:07:00 PM »
Just for the record, I was picking up a free car as part of one of my charity functions, for a noble cause and as a gesture of kindness to a friend. The tow truck driver I was riding with is a church goer and a couple houses down neighbor. I asked him flat out..." Do you believe I am going to Hell for not going to church and believing all that religious stuff?"
his reply:

"YES"

UH OH, I guess he thinks I am going to hell, hmm, For some reason that does not really bother me all that much. I would have to believe that there is a h e double toothpicks somewhere to be afraid of it. Oh well, just a thought, not a sermon.
 
MG8 :smokin:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2003, 02:41:00 PM »
Try learning something every once in a while
*Warning* May involve reading.
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Offline Tampa survivor

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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2003, 09:02:00 PM »
Richard,
Well, whoever you are, I like ya already.
Wonderfully stated your personal position without ranting or sounding like a preacher/salesman.
Well, lets see how the evangelizers counter.
It always gets personal for them.  How sad.
 
Hmm, I can't wait to see how PA deals with our Jewish friends' statements too....
Bill
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2003, 11:13:00 AM »
The sower soweth the Word. And these are they by the wayside where the Word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately and takes away the Word that was sown in their hearts. And these are are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the Word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time; afterward, when affliction or persecution arises for the Word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the Word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches,and the lusts of other things entering in choke the Word and it becomes unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the Word and receive it and bring forth fruit...take heed what you hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you! Mark 4:14-24
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Offline not a fuckhead

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« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2003, 12:02:00 PM »
How do we know religion is false?
   
If a religion is false one would expect it to have certain self-serving characteristics.  

You will find that most religions have at least some of these traits.  

For example:  

God wants you to believe in and worship Him?  
Why?  How does your belief benefit God or "His plan"?  Why does he care whether you worship Him, another god, or no god.  A false religion would be likely to teach that God wants you to believe that religion.  At the extreme they teach that you must establish a "personal relationship" with God, which translates into a total control of everything you think.  This prevents any freedom of thought that might allow you to consider otherwise.  

Through God you can live forever?  
Humans have a basic fear of death.  False religions are likely to capitalize on this by offering what they cannot deliver: the pie in the sky promise of everlasting life.  Even if this were real, so what? Free thinkers must come to terms with death and accept it as a part of reality.  Accomplish as much as you can in this life.  It's the life you know you have!  It's a good life.  A bird in the hand is worth two in the burning bush.  

Without God you'll burn forever?  
When the everlasting life ploy doesn't work, religion resorts to threats.  Simple death isn't really so bad, but everlasting pain is, so this belief is very effective.  Fortunately religion pays a price for this nonsense.  Notice that God is becoming more and more insane as the beliefs get more extreme.  Clearly a loving God wouldn't allow such a thing.  To support this kind of belief they must add what might be called the "Shut Up Clause":  

Whatever the religion says about God is absolutely the word of God and to question either it or Him is sin?  
Here they are asking you to deliberately shut your very mind itself from wondering about the truth of God and your religion.  Those who have succeeded best at this have closed off their doubting, questioning minds. They believe their holy gospel is more real than reality itself. Any evidence countering their holy word must be wrong.  They are like a train that can only run on the tracks laid out for it.  They are afraid that any straying will cost them their precious afterlife. Free thinkers don't make themselves subservient to the claims of others.  Don't fear your own thoughts!  

Everyone I know is religious; why rock the boat?  
Because your beliefs should be as accurate as you can make them.  Because your thoughts and your actions are all there is to you!  And your actions depend on your thoughts!  So it's important not to hold beliefs for any reason other than that they are true, to the best of your ability to tell.  And it's your responsibility to find out those facts as best you can.

[ This Message was edited by: Richard Simmons on 2003-04-22 09:07 ]
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Offline ClayL

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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2003, 03:33:00 PM »
Richard, while I'm not going to defend our reigious fruitcakes I have to say, I have a personal relationship with my wife and she doesn't have total control of my thoughts.

I kind of agree with number 2 but, in number 3 I find the idea of spending enternity telling someone how great they are to be non-appealing. I completely cannot believe a loving God would submit His children to eternal torment. Sounds more like a sadistic bastard to me.

Number 4..., Even Peter, "The Rock" doubted the word of Christ, and he could even get a direct answer.

Number 5 Reminds me of something my mother used to tell me. "If everyone was jumping off a bridge, would you?"

In short, around here 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

CL
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Offline not a fuckhead

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« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2003, 04:23:00 PM »
Clarification,

At the extreme they teach that you must establish a "personal relationship" with God.

Not a person.


On 2003-04-22 12:33:00, ClayL wrote:
Quote
"Richard, while I'm not going to defend our reigious fruitcakes I have to say, I have a personal relationship with my wife and she doesn't have total control of my thoughts."
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Offline wayeast

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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2003, 07:33:00 PM »
Richard,

I liked your last two posts. I'll try to be there with a fire extinguisher when John Ashcroft and Tom Delay have you burned at the stake for heresy.

I have one disagreement. I don't equate free thinking with arrogance.  Arrogance is, by definition, not caring about the truth.  That doesn't really fit free thinkers, who are less afraid to question their own assumptions about life than most others are.  

The religious right acts as if atheists, agnostics, and free-thinkers were casting off all rules and restrictions, as if this was a great rebellion.  In my experience, free thinkers are the ones who really put thought into what is the right thing to do and the right way to relate to the rest of the human race.  That's why free thinkers protect the rights of people like P.A. to preach at us so obnoxiously.

It it arrogant to recognize that you are just one life on one planet in one galaxy at the edge of the universe? Or is it maybe arrogant to believe that anyone who argues with you is just intimidated by your righteousness, because the holy spirit is on you?
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