WHAT ABOUT THE PARENTS?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-28 12:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I do not know what you are reading, butI did not see any reference to all boarding schools in my post...I am only refering to se behavior modification places that are run like a prison camp in Siberia.  If a teenager is "normal" with "normal" problems why would you send him out of the country?  Forget about being duped...this parent heard what she wanted to hear and now wants to dupe others into believing her good intentions.   No, she WANTED to believe in the owners...a truly "normal" parent with a "normal" teen with "normal" problems would seek a more "normal" way of dealing with them and not ship them off to have a "fun" experience in an underdeveloped foreign country.  That is just a load of crap to assauge her guilt."

Exactly!

 ::bigsmilebounce::  ::birthday::  ::cheers::

[Anonymous]

Anon,
Are you saying that parents are not allowed to give their teenagers growing experiences as this parent did.  If you have the means, are you saying that you should not be able to send your child to say, Europe for a year.  I don't think that all parents are shipping their kids off, but giving them alternatives such as boarding schools.

[Anonymous]

Ever been to Costa Rica?  A beautiful country with very loving people and a family oriented culture.

[Anonymous]

I don't see anyone in this thread saying parents should not send their child to Europe for one year, can you quote that if it is, thanks. The pro-wwasps arguments in this thread are filled with logical fallacies, including the red herring I just referred to before. Who cares what parents do, as long as they don't send their kid to a psychologically and physically harmful environment. Parents continue to choose the most ineffective, abusive forms of 'treatment' and see it as some kind of viable alternative option when the rest of the world is saying no thanks. Really makes you wonder about these parents.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-28 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't see anyone in this thread saying parents should not send their child to Europe for one year, can you quote that if it is, thanks. The pro-wwasps arguments in this thread are filled with logical fallacies, including the red herring I just referred to before. Who cares what parents do, as long as they don't send their kid to a psychologically and physically harmful environment. Parents continue to choose the most ineffective, abusive forms of 'treatment' and see it as some kind of viable alternative option when the rest of the world is saying no thanks. Really makes you wonder about these parents. "

Yep - but when you think about it, without troubled parents - there wouldn't be a need for an industry that caters to enabling them to blame their kids for being the "troubled" ones.

[Badpuppy]

[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-29 09:34 ]

[Anonymous]

What about Sue Scheff.  She still refers to wherever she can get $$$$$$$$$$$$.  She doesn't give a damn about parents or kids.  Just take a look ar hers.

If WWASP offered her $$$ tomorrow, she would refer to them AGAIN!!

SHE SHOULD BE SUED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

WWASP is bad, but that ain't that bad!!!!

[Anonymous]

Badpuppy,
I recognize this parent from the post.  You are making assumptions and drifted away from the original post. She is not justifying anything and certainly not saying she is perfect.  Just sharing her experiences.  

If you had a clue of what this parent and her son have done in the last few years to help others, try and change legislation, and expose these bastards, you would be working with her and not just picking apart her posts and assuming situations.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-29 06:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Badpuppy,

I recognize this parent from the post.  You are making assumptions and drifted away from the original post. She is not justifying anything and certainly not saying she is perfect.  Just sharing her experiences.  



If you had a clue of what this parent and her son have done in the last few years to help others, try and change legislation, and expose these bastards, you would be working with her and not just picking apart her posts and assuming situations. "

It's good parents and their children are working together to try and make a change in the PUBLIC arena.  Is that what is going on?  So far, I haven't really seen a coalition of parents go public - though I have heard of a lawsuit against WWASPS that involves several kids and their parents.

The parent writes: This was almost 4 years ago. There was nothing out on the web that explained what was happening in these facilities.

I disagree. Dateline and 48 Hours both did programs in early 2000, Time Mag. published an article in 1998 and Lou Kilzer's excellent and heavily promoted series on WWASPS was published ONLINE in 2000.

http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... sp11.shtml

Perhaps the parent was not Internet savvy - but I find that hard to believe - especially since that is the route most parents use when looking for a program or specialty boarding school.



The top watchdog groups we know today were still in their infancy.

[BuzzKill]

This information might have been on line - but it didn't come up in any internet search on the common terms searched. I know this for a fact as I did a lot of googling, and web crawling - and the ONLY sites that popped up at the time were sites promoting the program.

Being ignorant about how the web works (how a program can flood the net with web sites so as to ensure they are what covers the first several pages of any net search)  I thought this was a sign they were the premium program advocated and recommended by all.

I understand web search engines have been working to make this kind of thing more difficult - and as a result - a web search now does indeed bring up some useful sites.

But then - this was not so.

I found all these useful and informative sites as a result of a TB grad posting a list of links on the BBS. I was just lucky to be on-line when they went up - as they were yanked within minutes. But I had done a quick copy/paste - and so I then began reading. I was shocked at what I was reading. I had long thought the program was dishonest and manipulating - and had recognized how cult like they were - but the abuse spoken of by so many kids was shocking to me.

It takes awhile to accept what your reading when you first find this stuff. This is why I often wish you guys would use a more velvet glove with the new parents who turn up. When you attack them they will turn away and much more easily accept the program crap and pabulum that we are all lying manipulators with an agenda. Or, just plain crazy.

You can point to the truth with out being so extremely hostile. When you tell someone with a PHD (or any other collection of letters behind their name) that they are morons and idiots - they have good reason to dismiss everything else you say - b/c they know they are not morons. And no one who has been brainwashed is able to accept they are brain washed. Go ahead and point out the possiblity, b/c it is the truth, but don't beat them up with. IT will just chase them away.

I understand the hostility so many of you have for the parents. Its why I have been willing to suffer my lumps and bruses and keep on. But as I have so often said - the key to helping the kids is reaching the parents - and you can not reach most of them by calling them disparaging names.

All this being said, I will also say, there will always be a large majority you have no hope of reaching. You can't spend time agonizing over them. You ought to concentrate on reaching the ones who can be reached, and not turing them away with unrelenting hostility.

*[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2006-04-29 07:46 ]

[MightyAardvark]

Thanks Buzzkill, I'm been trying to work out how to articulate that point for a day or two. We're only going to have any success against these people if we reach out to every ally we have  and every wavering voice and bring them onboard with us. We've got to educate the public and make them understand and people don't want to listen to people who call them idiots.

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone is turning program parents away as much as they are trying to remind these parents that IT IS NOT ABOUT THEM and recouping their financial loss.

Second, Ever notice how the WWASPS parents always claim they didn't know about the controversy, no matter what year it was they sent their kid away?

That may have been true in 1996-1997, 10 years ago but those parents are NOT the ones posting on Fornits or the other anti-WWASPS forums.

I remember doing a search back in 2000 and Intrepid Net Reporter came up frequently.  And once Desperate Measures was published, well it impossible to miss it on any of the search engines if you used key words like troubled teens, or the name of any of the WWASPS programs.

In the end, only a few parents (such as yourself) have dedicated themselves to broadening public awareness and for that, you deserve a huge thank you!

I wish more parents would stand up and take their lumps and then resolve to do something that actually helps.  Donate to the watchdog groups, give interviews, help promote HR 1738.  Civil lawsuits are fine but they happen behind closed doors.  The public has no idea what's going on, it's a private affair.

Lastly, it must be remembered that WWASPS is not the only game in town.  All this exclusive attention on them has helped to drive parents to other programs, with the SAME potential for abuse.  In fact, some of the worst cases of abuse that we know about have happened at smaller programs, or wilderness programs where there have been deaths.  The Ed Cons are profiting from the anti-wwasps movement too, don't forget.

There are parents who were genuinely duped, we all know that.  But the WWASPS parents are the least credible when it comes to making that claim, primarily because this org. has generated the most publicity.  It's a double-edge sword.

If parents really want to help, there are many ways to do so, short of posting on bulletin boards expressing their "outrage" at being mislead.  That tired, sorry ole song and dance is what prompts people to tune them out, IMO.  Who wants to hear a bunch of parents whining about their lost investment when everybody knows that's nothing compared to what they put their children through?

[Badpuppy]

You are absolutlely right. And I appologize to the forum and the Mom I was talking about. I eat the crow. This was not helpful.

[Terryh]

I found this site a year after I removed my daughter from Darrington just four weeks into it.  We took her there because we were desperate and found a totally different site called teen solutions.  The "counselor" totally understood what we were going through and we checked the facility before leaving her there.  It wasn't the Hyatt, but I didn't see anything that didn't throw any red flags up.
Now I look for a site that can help me find a way to help keep others from making this same mistake and instead I find a disorganized mess of finger pointing and insults.  
Yes I'm stuck with a huge bill that I would love to not pay.  Not because I can't, but because I don't want to fund this program with the knowledge that I have today.  
Seems how this site is more about placing blame than putting these "schools" out of business, it's obvious I'm in the wrong place.
Good luck to all!!!  Try not to drown in your own self-pitty.

Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.
-- John Muir