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Offline Anonymous

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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2007, 03:41:06 AM »
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What really amazes me is how the school hires all these young faculty who quickly end up leading FLCs and other group discussions that are like therapy sessions.  How can this school justify putting these novices into those situations, especially when parents and students end up talking about the most amazingly sensitive family stuff imaginable?
The key here being "like" therapy sessions. A conversation with a friend can be "like" a therapy session, but there are differences. Sometimes thoses conversations can get out of control and that's when they have to be directed elsewhere or outside professional help suggested. I've been through a couple of FLCs and while they sometimes went into very deep, personal issues, those discussions were entered into voluntarily and were appropriately guided by the facilitator. I can't say that I experienced "traumatic" situations as some have alluded to, but I'm not discounting the experiences of others.

I did not disclose my personal issues voluntarily.  I am not disputing what your experience was, but I did many more FLC's then the "couple" of ones you say you did. My experience in those FLC's, was that the parents and kids were very much pressured into opening up even when they didn't want to.  The other students and parents in the FLC's along with the facilitator sometimes would belittle a person in order to get them to spill their guts.  One time a woman stood up for the allowed time and didn't want to say anything.  She was obviously very troubled about something in her life.  The facilitator humiliated this woman in front of everyone until she ended up crying.  This was a great feat in the facilitators cap.  You could tell she was very proud of herself when she broke this woman down.  The woman still would not divulge the family secret she had inside of her.  The facilitator badgered and badgered her the entire weekend.  I understand she pulled her child out of Hyde shortly after.

This to me is not a sufficient way of helping a person deal with their issues.  What kind of training and education do these former students and parents have when they take on the role to facilitate a group session?  Do they know what to do in an emergency situation? To me this seems like very dangerous territory.

I am glad that you did not experience "traumatic" results.  You are  of the lucky ones.  I don't want to be "lucky" with my child.  I want to know he is getting the best care possible when I pay $35,000++ to get him a "character education."

I personally think these people at Hyde are the ones who need the group sessions with a good therapist because they seem to be nuts! They are stuck in a place for many years where they don't grow and yet they are trying to dispense therapy???  This seems crazy.


Ditto! I couldn't have said it better myself!  I felt that Hyde was a toxic place. I observed the same negativity at Hyde that others are talking about on this board.  

Thx to whoever started this board.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2007, 09:48:58 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What really amazes me is how the school hires all these young faculty who quickly end up leading FLCs and other group discussions that are like therapy sessions.  How can this school justify putting these novices into those situations, especially when parents and students end up talking about the most amazingly sensitive family stuff imaginable?
The key here being "like" therapy sessions. A conversation with a friend can be "like" a therapy session, but there are differences. Sometimes thoses conversations can get out of control and that's when they have to be directed elsewhere or outside professional help suggested. I've been through a couple of FLCs and while they sometimes went into very deep, personal issues, those discussions were entered into voluntarily and were appropriately guided by the facilitator. I can't say that I experienced "traumatic" situations as some have alluded to, but I'm not discounting the experiences of others.

I did not disclose my personal issues voluntarily.  I am not disputing what your experience was, but I did many more FLC's then the "couple" of ones you say you did. My experience in those FLC's, was that the parents and kids were very much pressured into opening up even when they didn't want to.  The other students and parents in the FLC's along with the facilitator sometimes would belittle a person in order to get them to spill their guts.  One time a woman stood up for the allowed time and didn't want to say anything.  She was obviously very troubled about something in her life.  The facilitator humiliated this woman in front of everyone until she ended up crying.  This was a great feat in the facilitators cap.  You could tell she was very proud of herself when she broke this woman down.  The woman still would not divulge the family secret she had inside of her.  The facilitator badgered and badgered her the entire weekend.  I understand she pulled her child out of Hyde shortly after.

This to me is not a sufficient way of helping a person deal with their issues.  What kind of training and education do these former students and parents have when they take on the role to facilitate a group session?  Do they know what to do in an emergency situation? To me this seems like very dangerous territory.

I am glad that you did not experience "traumatic" results.  You are  of the lucky ones.  I don't want to be "lucky" with my child.  I want to know he is getting the best care possible when I pay $35,000++ to get him a "character education."

I personally think these people at Hyde are the ones who need the group sessions with a good therapist because they seem to be nuts! They are stuck in a place for many years where they don't grow and yet they are trying to dispense therapy???  This seems crazy.

Ditto! I couldn't have said it better myself!  I felt that Hyde was a toxic place. I observed the same negativity at Hyde that others are talking about on this board.  

Thx to whoever started this board.


I too am reassured to know about this board.  It's very helpful to read the comments of other parents whose Hyde experiences matched my own in that they were very terribly painful and harmful.  Some of my worst experiences at Hyde were in seminars and FLC's.  Although some of the discussions were useful, I can't help but remember a number of horrific incidents where staff and other parents (especially alumni parents) berated both students and their parents for not "digging deep enough," and not exposing their personal secrets and dirty laundry.  Several times I saw students and parents fall apart in those meetings.  I even heard a couple of the participants talk about suicide because of their despair.  What worries me the most about Hyde is that many of the staff and alumni parents act like therapists when they clearly don't have a clue about what good therapy is all about.  Some of what happens in those seminars and FLC's is sadistic and incredibly amateurish, yet it's done in the name of Hyde's peculiar and mean-spirited form of character education.  I know of many parents who felt duped by Hyde; they discovered too late in the game what the school is about.  For financial reasons these parents felt obligated to finish out the year and then quickly look for healthier schools.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2007, 12:48:27 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What really amazes me is how the school hires all these young faculty who quickly end up leading FLCs and other group discussions that are like therapy sessions.  How can this school justify putting these novices into those situations, especially when parents and students end up talking about the most amazingly sensitive family stuff imaginable?
The key here being "like" therapy sessions. A conversation with a friend can be "like" a therapy session, but there are differences. Sometimes thoses conversations can get out of control and that's when they have to be directed elsewhere or outside professional help suggested. I've been through a couple of FLCs and while they sometimes went into very deep, personal issues, those discussions were entered into voluntarily and were appropriately guided by the facilitator. I can't say that I experienced "traumatic" situations as some have alluded to, but I'm not discounting the experiences of others.

I did not disclose my personal issues voluntarily.  I am not disputing what your experience was, but I did many more FLC's then the "couple" of ones you say you did. My experience in those FLC's, was that the parents and kids were very much pressured into opening up even when they didn't want to.  The other students and parents in the FLC's along with the facilitator sometimes would belittle a person in order to get them to spill their guts.  One time a woman stood up for the allowed time and didn't want to say anything.  She was obviously very troubled about something in her life.  The facilitator humiliated this woman in front of everyone until she ended up crying.  This was a great feat in the facilitators cap.  You could tell she was very proud of herself when she broke this woman down.  The woman still would not divulge the family secret she had inside of her.  The facilitator badgered and badgered her the entire weekend.  I understand she pulled her child out of Hyde shortly after.

This to me is not a sufficient way of helping a person deal with their issues.  What kind of training and education do these former students and parents have when they take on the role to facilitate a group session?  Do they know what to do in an emergency situation? To me this seems like very dangerous territory.

I am glad that you did not experience "traumatic" results.  You are  of the lucky ones.  I don't want to be "lucky" with my child.  I want to know he is getting the best care possible when I pay $35,000++ to get him a "character education."

I personally think these people at Hyde are the ones who need the group sessions with a good therapist because they seem to be nuts! They are stuck in a place for many years where they don't grow and yet they are trying to dispense therapy???  This seems crazy.

Ditto! I couldn't have said it better myself!  I felt that Hyde was a toxic place. I observed the same negativity at Hyde that others are talking about on this board.  

Thx to whoever started this board.

I too am reassured to know about this board.  It's very helpful to read the comments of other parents whose Hyde experiences matched my own in that they were very terribly painful and harmful.  Some of my worst experiences at Hyde were in seminars and FLC's.  Although some of the discussions were useful, I can't help but remember a number of horrific incidents where staff and other parents (especially alumni parents) berated both students and their parents for not "digging deep enough," and not exposing their personal secrets and dirty laundry.  Several times I saw students and parents fall apart in those meetings.  I even heard a couple of the participants talk about suicide because of their despair.  What worries me the most about Hyde is that many of the staff and alumni parents act like therapists when they clearly don't have a clue about what good therapy is all about.  Some of what happens in those seminars and FLC's is sadistic and incredibly amateurish, yet it's done in the name of Hyde's peculiar and mean-spirited form of character education.  I know of many parents who felt duped by Hyde; they discovered too late in the game what the school is about.  For financial reasons these parents felt obligated to finish out the year and then quickly look for healthier schools.


I am a parent who had a very bad experience at Hyde Schools.  I hope that by telling my story I can save someone else from the pain and anguish I went through.

While attending a Family Weekend on campus with my wife, I participated in seminars run by the same unqualified, uneducated facilitators that people are speaking about on this site.

I have had some trauma in my life that I seldom talk about as it is too painful.  I have tried to deal with this trauma with a psychologist in my local town, but will probably never fully get over the effects.

My belief is that Hyde thinks they can help everyone in every situation, but this is dangerous territory.  In my case when they pushed hard enough and bullied me for two days straight I finally broke down.  Hyde might think this was therapeutic for me, but Hyde did not have a professional on staff to help me with the outcome of discussing my trauma.  I went into a place that I still cannot describe.  I was told by my Psychologist that this was a mental breakdown.  I drove home from Hyde with my wife only knowing that I was not coping with life.  All of a sudden I was in another place at another time and barely understood who I was.  

I feel that Hyde's arrogance of believing they know it all and have all the answers is seriously flawed.  This "one size fits all" attitude of Hyde is dangerous as was in my case.  I am ok now, but how many others have been temporarily or permanentaly harmed?

Sorry to bore you all with this but I feel my story is worth telling even if it only helps one person.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2007, 12:57:31 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
 I am a parent who had a very bad experience at Hyde Schools.  I hope that by telling my story I can save someone else from the pain and anguish I went through.

While attending a Family Weekend on campus with my wife, I participated in seminars run by the same unqualified, uneducated facilitators that people are speaking about on this site.

I have had some trauma in my life that I seldom talk about as it is too painful.  I have tried to deal with this trauma with a psychologist in my local town, but will probably never fully get over the effects.

My belief is that Hyde thinks they can help everyone in every situation, but this is dangerous territory.  In my case when they pushed hard enough and bullied me for two days straight I finally broke down.  Hyde might think this was therapeutic for me, but Hyde did not have a professional on staff to help me with the outcome of discussing my trauma.  I went into a place that I still cannot describe.  I was told by my Psychologist that this was a mental breakdown.  I drove home from Hyde with my wife only knowing that I was not coping with life.  All of a sudden I was in another place at another time and barely understood who I was.  

I feel that Hyde's arrogance of believing they know it all and have all the answers is seriously flawed.  This "one size fits all" attitude of Hyde is dangerous as was in my case.  I am ok now, but how many others have been temporarily or permanentaly harmed?

Sorry to bore you all with this but I feel my story is worth telling even if it only helps one person.


You're not boring us at all.  Thanks for telling us what you went through.  Most parents buy into it and sign their kids up for a year or two of it but the kids get a much more intensive, dangerous version obviously.  The philosophy behind virtually every one of these places is to break them down and then build them up.  Very dangerous territory indeed, especially when applied to developing children.

I'm assuming you either chose not to send your child or pulled them immediately following this experience?
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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2007, 01:20:45 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
 I am a parent who had a very bad experience at Hyde Schools.  I hope that by telling my story I can save someone else from the pain and anguish I went through.

While attending a Family Weekend on campus with my wife, I participated in seminars run by the same unqualified, uneducated facilitators that people are speaking about on this site.

I have had some trauma in my life that I seldom talk about as it is too painful.  I have tried to deal with this trauma with a psychologist in my local town, but will probably never fully get over the effects.

My belief is that Hyde thinks they can help everyone in every situation, but this is dangerous territory.  In my case when they pushed hard enough and bullied me for two days straight I finally broke down.  Hyde might think this was therapeutic for me, but Hyde did not have a professional on staff to help me with the outcome of discussing my trauma.  I went into a place that I still cannot describe.  I was told by my Psychologist that this was a mental breakdown.  I drove home from Hyde with my wife only knowing that I was not coping with life.  All of a sudden I was in another place at another time and barely understood who I was.  

I feel that Hyde's arrogance of believing they know it all and have all the answers is seriously flawed.  This "one size fits all" attitude of Hyde is dangerous as was in my case.  I am ok now, but how many others have been temporarily or permanentaly harmed?

Sorry to bore you all with this but I feel my story is worth telling even if it only helps one person.

You're not boring us at all.  Thanks for telling us what you went through.  Most parents buy into it and sign their kids up for a year or two of it but the kids get a much more intensive, dangerous version obviously.  The philosophy behind virtually every one of these places is to break them down and then build them up.  Very dangerous territory indeed, especially when applied to developing children.

I'm assuming you either chose not to send your child or pulled them immediately following this experience?


I seem to recall, perhaps incorrectly, Joe Gauld making reference to just such a phrase in school meeting:  "...break them down and then build them up..." (in discussing "character" development).
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: staff turnover at Hyde
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2007, 01:27:52 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I seem to recall, perhaps incorrectly, Joe Gauld making reference to just such a phrase in school meeting:  "...break them down and then build them up..." (in discussing "character" development).


Yeah, most of these places work on basically the same principle.  It began a few decades back with Synanon, then the Seed and Straight.  Now it continues in places like Hyde, Carlbrook, HIdden Lake Academy (although it's on it's last legs thanks in no small part to a few dedicated people here and pissed off parents), CEDU (although some have closed, others opened under new names).  The whole industry is pretty sick.
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Offline Anonymous

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hyde is great
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2007, 06:08:25 AM »
I came to Hyde thirty years ago fresh out of a situation of severe child abuse and neglect. I did not know that at the time, and so I never raised the issue at Hyde. (Needless to say, neither did my parents.) That may sound silly, not knowing I was abused: arbitrary violence, punishment, and humiliation are straightforward. But the fact is I was unable to recognize the abuse I had been steeped in until I was completely free of my home environment. Marriage and involvement with other families may have given me the necessary perspective.

My point is: for whatever reason, I could not recognize my trauma, and so it was not dealt with. In all fairness, Hyde staff were not professionally trained to recognize symptoms of child abuse and thus enabled to bring me to my current level of awareness. I regret that I did not undergo proper therapy together with my parents during the years I was away at Hyde. It might have spared me the subsequent decline not only in my mental health but also in my relations with my parents.
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« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2007, 09:13:09 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I came to Hyde thirty years ago fresh out of a situation of severe child abuse and neglect. I did not know that at the time, and so I never raised the issue at Hyde. (Needless to say, neither did my parents.) That may sound silly, not knowing I was abused: arbitrary violence, punishment, and humiliation are straightforward. But the fact is I was unable to recognize the abuse I had been steeped in until I was completely free of my home environment. Marriage and involvement with other families may have given me the necessary perspective.

My point is: for whatever reason, I could not recognize my trauma, and so it was not dealt with. In all fairness, Hyde staff were not professionally trained to recognize symptoms of child abuse and thus enabled to bring me to my current level of awareness. I regret that I did not undergo proper therapy together with my parents during the years I was away at Hyde. It might have spared me the subsequent decline not only in my mental health but also in my relations with my parents.


I also came from an abusive home situation.  And I think my consequent mindset primed me to accept as "normal" the humiliation, degradation, and cruelty that I later experienced at Hyde.

However, regardless of what I feel about how my parents treated me, I do also believe that they did love me.  They probably felt that they were doing their best, compared to how they were brought up.  

Not so with Hyde!   It is not exactly a loving and healing place!  It has taken me decades to come to terms with that, and perhaps, on some level, I may never fully get over the capricious viciousness that was sometimes doled out.
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« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2007, 12:09:42 PM »
I wrote the post about child abuse to which you responded. For reference, I'll identify myself as Mike.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that child abuse was status quo at Hyde. There were abusers and there were nonabusers. The former I shunned and the latter, teachers like Bud Warren, Sumner Hawley, and Ed Legg, I respected. I guess this distinction was the beginning of my education in child abuse, when I first realized there existed an alternative to it.

Like you, I witnessed my share of child abuse at Hyde, and determined early on not to be a victim of it. No doubt, this strongly conditioned my behavior in ways that did not serve Hyde's objectives. For me, it meant avoiding certain staff members and resisting situations of vulnerability.
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« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2007, 02:37:20 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I wrote the post about child abuse to which you responded. For reference, I'll identify myself as Mike.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that child abuse was status quo at Hyde. There were abusers and there were nonabusers. The former I shunned and the latter, teachers like Bud Warren, Sumner Hawley, and Ed Legg, I respected. I guess this distinction was the beginning of my education in child abuse, when I first realized there existed an alternative to it.

Like you, I witnessed my share of child abuse at Hyde, and determined early on not to be a victim of it. No doubt, this strongly conditioned my behavior in ways that did not serve Hyde's objectives. For me, it meant avoiding certain staff members and resisting situations of vulnerability.


Mike,

  Do you remember how odd hyde was back then?  Do you remember the "Book"?   Do you remember "National Commitment?"
I remember that the "Book" was going to change America.

emil nightrate
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« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2007, 03:19:28 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I wrote the post about child abuse to which you responded. For reference, I'll identify myself as Mike.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that child abuse was status quo at Hyde. There were abusers and there were nonabusers. The former I shunned and the latter, teachers like Bud Warren, Sumner Hawley, and Ed Legg, I respected. I guess this distinction was the beginning of my education in child abuse, when I first realized there existed an alternative to it.

Like you, I witnessed my share of child abuse at Hyde, and determined early on not to be a victim of it. No doubt, this strongly conditioned my behavior in ways that did not serve Hyde's objectives. For me, it meant avoiding certain staff members and resisting situations of vulnerability.


Of the three former staff members you mention, only Bud Warren still has my respect.  I did appreciate Sumner's intellect, and he did have a certain sympathy for the underdog, however effete, but he was not someone you could depend on to be good to his word.  Perhaps I am too harsh on him; I think he was a bit of a closeted fellow, so to speak, and only his age and academic credentials, not to mention his longstanding friendship with Joe (?), bought him a certain unassailability from close scrutiny.  Ed Legg was one cold fish in my book.  Remorseless, relentless.  And really obsessed with prurient sins.  I am not gay, but I can remember thinking -- during the countless school meetings where he pontificated at length about this subject -- that surely there were greater so-called evils to be concerned about.  I can't remember whether he used the word "abomination" or not, but his message was certainly in keeping with that.  I do remember him saying homosexuality was "unnatural" and indicative that of not dealing honestly with one's self, and some things far more extreme that I should probably not put into print.

Of abuse at Hyde, I think verbal and psychological abuse were most sanctioned and condoned -- all in the name of the cause.  However, there were also instances of sports injuries and work crew injuries which were not taken seriously or attended to (character development, hah!), as well as sexual infractions alluded to and discussed elsewhere in this forum.  And I think this does happen when people hold themselves above judgement and standards of the norm.  Moreover, there were many personal axe grinders...

What was so insidious and so debilitating in the long run, was the accompanying caveat that if you did not make it at Hyde, you would never make it anywhere.  How many suicides and attempts at such is this caveat responsible for?  I can remember one former student calling up during study hall on the verge of doing it (his mother could not afford to send him anymore, and the school was unenthusiastic about his return, probably as a result), and he was distraught and filled with impending doom over this judgement that he did not have enough "commitment"...  No one ever brought up the fact that this was an inner city kid, single mom (?), probably got a local scholarship for the first year but there was no more where that come from, and that there was a cultural and economic disconnect that was in no small part at the heart of the school vs. parent impasse.  Nothing to do with the kid's so called committment (but then, in a strange twist on convention, we kids were often blamed for our parents' alleged shortcomings).  ...The study hall proctor took the call and, not knowing what to do, passed the phone around to the rest of us (students) who happened to be standing there, and some of us tried to talk to him...  The guy was crying.  I wish I knew what happened to him.  I think his name was Daryl.
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« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2007, 03:34:29 PM »
Quote
Mike,

  Do you remember how odd hyde was back then?  Do you remember the "Book"?   Do you remember "National Commitment?"
I remember that the "Book" was going to change America.

emil nightrate

Yo, Amyl, I remember the book and how it was going to change America (was it America? or was it the world?).  I wrote my heart out, but somehow I don't think my material was good enough...  Whatever happened to all those confessions?  I don't remember signing any release forms.

MR2X[/quote]
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« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2007, 03:54:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Mike,

  Do you remember how odd hyde was back then?  Do you remember the "Book"?   Do you remember "National Commitment?"
I remember that the "Book" was going to change America.

emil nightrate

Yo, Amyl, I remember the book and how it was going to change America (was it America? or was it the world?).  I wrote my heart out, but somehow I don't think my material was good enough...  Whatever happened to all those confessions?  I don't remember signing any release forms.

MR2X
[/quote]

There were no release forms.  If Joe wanted your story he took it.  IF you told him that he could not use it you were gone.  Lack of committment to National Committment. A whole bunch of kids disappeared after a parent weekend one spring because the Dad did not want the stories published.  I never read either of the Gauld books so I don't know if any of those stories were in them.  The whole thing in retrospect seems so bizarre, like jonestown without the kool-aide.

Emil Nightrate
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« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2007, 04:20:59 PM »
This just sounds SO coersive, not to mention illlegal...
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« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2007, 04:54:29 PM »
ULP!  OOPS!!
 :oops:  :oops:

"...COERCIVE!"
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