what if it was even worse than we thought

[Anonymous]

Now that is interesting! I hope someone comes along and fills in those blanks. One odd thing I remember from Sarasota (Marnie and Casselor would have been in on this to some degree) is that the only cold medication we were allowed to take was Sudafed :question:  :exclaim:



[/quote]

Couldn't it be that that was the newest OTC cold remedy at the time?  You act as if all the knowledge we have today was known back then.  Oops...oh wait...the conspiracy...sorry...my bad.

Geez!

[Anonymous]

dragonfly, your looking a little flushed, how are you feeling?

[Antigen]

"

On 2006-02-23 09:20:00, dragonfly wrote:


"How did Frank Discussion know I was searching for the Monkey House thread that morning a few weeks ago?

Maybe he didn't know. Maybe he just missed the thread for the same reasons you did, cause it was a good thread. Who knows, maybe yenz renewed interest in it was even sparked by some of the same conversation in other threads and offline, outside of this forum. Or maybe great minds just think alike. Or maybe it was just coincidence.

Look, if you want a crash course in cause attribution, take up programing. You'll cry, you'll holler, you'll gnash your teeth spending hours upon days tracking down non-existant bugs due to misattribution. But you'll hone your skill.

Psychedelics often produce psychotic and even violent behavior in those who have never used them.
--Timothy Leary

[Withdraw]

[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 23:33 ]

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 15:02:00, Frank Discussion wrote:


And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters.."

I don't see any contradictions here. In fact, not only can both positions be true, if one is true then the other is practically inevitable.

Just crack any history book NOT available in the public school system. Read the Annals of Tacitus. I think Gutenberg Project has the whole damned thing online for free. Tacitus could have been writing about us here and now today. Same goes for all of the classic philosophers and, I would imagine, for the unknown wise guys and natural leaders who we never hear about.

Power hungry ppl have always, down through history, without fail taken advantage of any means available to make slaves of as many others as they can. Just look around at the social, economic and political landscape of the `60's and `70's from the point of view of the Duponts, the Büsh, Herriman, Walker cartel and all of their ilk. What would you do if you were them?

What makes you think they've stopped? When, precisely, did they stop? What made them stop?

People are still motivated by about the same impulses as ever we were. There's absolutely nothing new or unusual about what's going on now and the deep dark things we're discussing now. Not even this, though I find this the most troubling; stupid fucking people in this day and age don't know their history and think either 1) the fucking sky is falling cause they just notice they're not living in Ward and June Cleaver's Mayfield or 2) anyone who notices and dares posit conjecture about it is paranoid and crazy.

All this just because politicians are acting like politicians, plebes are acing like plebes, and perverts and reprobates of all socioeconomic stripe are acting like perverts and reprobates.

The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380768089/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Will Rogers, American humorist, political commentator and cowboy philosopher

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

This particular forum does ramble, but some of it rings true.  



I've been wondering about "Awareness"

Great Parlor Trick.  Freaks folks out after a while though.  Does anyone wonder what exactly it is?  Heightened sensitivity to non-verbal cues?  Something more?  ADD literature refers to a state of awareness called hyper-focus. I have that.  Tune out the world while reading or thinking.  Tune in to a detail or concentrate on one thing so hard that odd things happen.  Nowadays I tell people that my "bull-shit detector" is highly sophisticated.  



I had it bad.  I wondered about shizophrenia.  Thought I could "read" people.  Eventually, I was able to turn the volume down on it, but despite being out of practice, it's still there.

Consider an alternative explanation? You do have influence on the people around you. Lots of it. Doesn't matter much whether it's Johnny Dep looks or an imposing stature or ass ugly like they only grow in your neighborhood or a disturbing, but entertaining, dwarfishness. Or maybe just that spooky kid quality this abstract they so well nurture in us all.

Even unintentionally, we all have influence, subtle and not so subtle, over the people around us. Remember the Asch experiments? Here's a page on his work if you're not familiar:
http://www.psych.upenn.edu/sacsec/about/solomon.htm

That's how intake confessions and n/o come introductions happen. That's how Lybbi MacDonald was able to stand by her bizarre story about having been a 4'6", 90lb 16yo heiress to a fortune w/ a $1,000/dy H habit. Bear in mind, these are 1970 dollars we're talking about; pre-Nixon's explicit depreciation.

And yet she said it, time after time in front of a group of alleged junk fiends, their parents, the press... everybody and told that tall tale and never was questioned on the paticulars, so far as I know, for somewhere around 30 fuckin' years!

Do you think you might be sort of unconciously working the program on those around you? Plecebo effect, accute focus (it's a feature, not a bug!) w/ social pressure, yah know?

It's come up before:

Situational Awareness - battlefield term.

In the Zone - Sports term.

Paranoia - fear others dislike.

Payin attention - Crazy Mac, and much to be encouraged, too :wink:

I remember signing a waiver and putting my social security number on it.  Twice.  First for a trip to the Pentagon.  We were told it was for a background check, but then the trip was cancelled.  Again when Nancy Reagan and Princess Di came.

That would sure be worth knowing more about! That would have been during the Riddile years, wouldn't it? Was Richard Schwartz there then too?

A while back I did some work in DC, and a secret service guy asked for my ID.  Came back and handed me a "special pin".  

He said "You've been checked out several times before".  He told me the pin should be worn so that other Secret Service Agents would know I was a "multiple approved".  What the hell is that?

I wouldn't even venture a guess.

Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 16:43:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:


An eyeful!

 :nworthy:

Yeah, yeah! I see things just about exactly like that but for one detail. If you're talking about American culture and politics, we are the establishment! These upstart fascist socialist new world order freaks are the rebels. And more and more ppl are starting to say so less and less rhetorically.

Here's the ticket, Mark Twain wasn't always viewed as quaint and folksey. In his day, he was called sardonic, dark, rappier witted, often unfriendly, profane, inflamatory and worse. Also, for a time, the WORLD's most loved author, by decree.

Ever read The Law of the Land. One fun way to do this is to take that guitar down to Indianna and throw an impromptu street party in celebration of
 

The drug war places Leo in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner.
--Antigen

_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW  
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 21:31 ]

[teachback]

pirate wrote:
I was more than an unruly kid who didn't like school. I was an idealist who believed in the spiritual transcendentalism of the individual as the only real authority. Metaphorically speaking God is in me, and I will resist wholeheartedly any attempt by external authorities to convince, coerce or otherwise blackmail me into believing otherwise. My rebellion against authority had intention and purpose which was to truly be free, as I was born to be. Seems all my damn life no matter where I turn ever'one wants a piece of me; wants me to serve their agenda, but I am not a tool. I wasn't born to be a slave. I am a human being. I have to live according to my nature. In a society which is bent on using people as tools I am a social revolutionary(I don't know...maybe that term is a little strong, but I don't know what word would be more accurate). I think it's obvious that the main reason I was placed in $tr8 was because the school system and my parents had decided that I was getting too far outside of the bounds of their control. I wasn't submitting to their program, and therefore would not become a productive cog in their machine. As I grew stronger by the day they became more and more afraid of me and the things I might discover. They were insecure control freaks terrified of my natural instincts.

Ok...as well as an unruly kid I too was an idealist who believed in something like that.....the individual vs. the state...but I had shunned anything like spirituality, at least for a while there. Punk rock. If you believe in God in you that is certainly your business! Social revolutionary? Well sure, if you want to call yourself that I won't argue with you. Consider me an agnostic who pretty much thinks along the same lines as you do.....and I'm with you as far as that next bit goes, up to a point...in my case, my parents were merely sold on the idea that I was in danger, and str8 promised salvation from this certain "doom" that I was without a doubt (insert sarcasm) headed for...jail, insanity or death. LOL. A productive cog...well that's colorful language there, but yeah, it pretty much amounts to that..control...control-freakism is part of it for sure. They became afraid of you? For real? Had you threatened to kill them? Or perhaps firebomb certain institutions..? The 'rents didn't particularly like bearing witness to my 'natural instincts' either...almost got caught fucking my gf up in my room....LOL

[webcrawler]

The 'rents didn't particularly like bearing witness to my 'natural instincts' either...almost got caught fucking my gf up in my room....LOL"

That was the final straw to send me away in my case :cry:

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

Now that is interesting! I hope someone comes along and fills in those blanks. One odd thing I remember from Sarasota (Marnie and Casselor would have been in on this to some degree) is that the only cold medication we were allowed to take was Sudafed :question:  :exclaim:

Couldn't it be that that was the newest OTC cold remedy at the time?  You act as if all the knowledge we have today was known back then.  Oops...oh wait...the conspiracy...sorry...my bad.



Geez!"

Of course it could. Why else would a backwater pediatrician like MacDonald recomend it? Or some other.

But it is interesting that they chose that particular drug and now these same sadistic lunatics are trying to outlaw the shit. I think that's mostly about casting meth into the role formerly occupied by crack after angel dust after acid after heroin after cannabis (remember Harry Anslinger's Reefer Madness?) after smoked opium (but, curiously, not patent medicines) after demon rhum (but, of course, not granny's tincture nor her cookin sherry nore the communion wine... no, just hand over the gin, please.). What next?

At the same time, what were the schoolpeople doing? They never did, for all their book learnin and austensible altruism and benevolent mission, take anything close to a properly adverserial position on the Program. There might be a critical comment or question once in awhile. But they'd get shouted down or drummed out. Ask some more great American propaganda.

Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[starry-eyed pirate]

Maybe not so much afraid of me physically or as one individual with insightful and tenacious ideas, but as a part of a social consciousness which alarmed their fears about their own illusions of security.  In this sense I was a threat to them and remain one to this day.

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 19:48:00, Withdraw wrote:

"I agree with most everyone. Where I get stuck is: Was Straight and the like designed on purpose to effect us this way? Or was it just by chance and the Universal laws of things that need to be in place for societies to see needed change.  

I think a little bit of both. It's like how a hamlet sometimes becomes urban sprawl. It's a combination of circumstance, oportunity, oportunists and dumb luck.

On the grand scale of History, certian painful events needed to be in place for change to occur. So in that way, I feel like a casualty. And, because I believe all things happen for a reason and the higher good, I have to believe this was all part of my choosen path. Don't go flaming me! It's just what I believe.

Oh, I wouldn't flame you! I'm about half on board your boat too, except that one toe in the water. I don't think we choose that much. Some things, yeah, but not that much. But I don't care. I'm happy to accept a world view wherein chance plays a big part. Without that chance in the world, we'd never see a baudacious orange, red, brown and deepest gree squash that vaguely resembles some politician.

I think if the pachinka ball had fallen just a little differently for me early on, I might have done much different, much more enjoyable and much more impressive things. I might have been one of those people from whom, circumstances being as they are, I draw inspiration. As it is, damned right I'm getting everything I can out of it, by way of resilience and insight from a valuable, if unenviable, perspective.

I'm not saying I whole heartedly believe anything, because I'm not so sure I do.

Me neither.

You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Straight_Inc_Alumni/' target='_new'>Kady

[starry-eyed pirate]

Eudora,

I...wrote an eyeful ??  Damn woman, how do you keep up ??  You are incredibly prolific.  :rofl:

Peace.

[Withdraw]

[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 23:34 ]

[teachback]

Thanx for the conversation. Your cool wit' me. I apprecite your comments and questions but I'm gettin' tired now.

Np, may you dream of spontaneously combusting Newton-heads!  :smile: