Author Topic: You make the call ... Geriatric care  (Read 3677 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2006, 01:50:00 PM »
It must be such an honor to help out
your grandfather. He being 102 is
quite the bonus.

What was his "secret" to longevity?

How has his quality of life been
over 11 decades?

In our family we had a women live
to 104. She was funny, when Willard
Scott NBC, called her on the air to
say happy birthday. He said this
is Willard Scott, do you know who
I am? She said yes, and if you
are calling it must mean that I
am a hundred years old, oh my!

Her "secret" she used to tell folks
when they asked was to be happy, try
to make everything funny, and don't
dwell on negatives. Help people,
don't influence to accept your belief's
because life will be much easier!  

I don't recall her worried about her
diet or what medication, or alternative
items she took.

To me, as a little kid, she was always
fun to visit!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2006, 03:28:00 PM »
You said:
What I found out the hard way was that 1/3 of all medical expenditures are cash for the alternative methods.

And then:
Then I noticed that the big bad western medicine was not practicing smashmout against alternative medicine.

Do you see a contradiction there? I would think that it is more than 1/3 that?s not covered. What were the 2/3 of your expenditures for, that were covered? Why shouldn?t any ?treatment? be covered by insurance if it is ?working? and/or rx?d by a health professional? Why don't more docs prescribe herbs/supplements? Are they unaware of the benefits?
 
I don't know who you think your kidding with the comment that WM doesn't smashmouth alternatives.
The AMA didn?t smashmouth Chiropractic? Fortunately their efforts were unsuccessful.
It's often covert. But, all they need do to prevent the average person from having access to ?alternatives? is maintain the status quo- ensure they aren?t covered by insurance. Put out bogus studies, and continue to train docs as they currently do. That could change in the next decade or two as Dr Andrew Weil turns out more alternative MDs. We shall see.

BTW, that?s about the third time you?ve claimed I?ve chased people off. Who? Do you have names or this delusional talk?

And this?  
Manipulation is horrible to a sick, vulnerable person. Asking for unbiased information should not produce an argument. Just the facts, sources and citations.

And in numerous posts (including this one), you ?smashmouth? me for copying and pasting.

I shouldn't post my experience or cited work or 'experts'. What's left? Let you 'chase me off' so you have full control? That IS what this is about.

I know you didn?t do all the ?research? that supports your beliefs and opinions and frequently don?t cite them.

You continually accuse me of doing precisely what you are/have done, right down to the name calling. I haven?t coerced one person on this forum to take my ?cited? advice. You on the other hand have repeatedly made claims that are not scientifically proven. That qualifies as deception/coercion.

This is your greatest fear:
When this happens and you are critical of another form of treatment then a person might buy into your dogma not because of the treatment but rather to be against something.

I guess you're just going to have to live with that. People will either depend solely on their doc or do some research and participate in their own 'treatment'. Neither here nor there for me. But I will continue to post what I feel in useful for those who may want to investigate less risky or intrusive treatment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2006, 08:18:00 PM »
You know who you chased off. One in particular
was very upset that you used her name while
she was on hiatus.

Your the link master, find it.

Regarding my agenda, unbiased information, let the patient decide for themselves, and support free choice.

Re-read all my posts.

I know you ignore what I say, and only hear what you want.

Perhaps you could take an English class, learn how to state your posts without the hate, and then there would be no one getting upset with the tone and obvious bias of your posts.

Hint: there is also available these treatments.

Herbs and the such. Some do prescribe. When meds are derived from herbs it is a little reduntant, correct. Most of the time the herb content is not what is stated on the bottle.

The alternative folks have plenty of money to do their own double blind studies.

Finally, check out the type of statements you make regarding me, and others. If you can't figure it out your English teacher will explain.

I know you are not involved with the mentally ill on a daily basis because you posted it.

Got it. Read my posts. I support unbiased information. Being misquoted is annoying, coming from you it is now expected. That is sad.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2006, 09:18:00 PM »
I could guess. Paul?
Whose name did I use?
And who are all the folks I chased off?
If you are Paul, I'll pass on re-reading your posts. Didn't enjoy them the first time around.
Perhaps we speak different languages, cause I rarely read one of your post and understand it the first time through. Usually pretty incoherent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2006, 10:14:00 PM »
Feel free to speak about what's important to you and how your values and beliefs affect your situation.

But please be careful and don't assume that everyone else is the same.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2006, 10:24:00 PM »
"Personally, I'd rather hear your personal experience with the drug than a broad generalization."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2006, 11:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-21 18:18:00, Deborah wrote:

"

Whose name did I use?

"


Deborah? Respectfully, fuck you.

You have no idea what it's like to have one of the two most serious mental illnesses in existence, and you have no idea how *high function* I am for having that illness *at all*.

Am I perfectly normal? NO. And until they have a cure, I never will be.

Do you call people in wheelchairs "gimpy" for an encore? Bitch them out for using their wheelchair as an "excuse" for taking all the *good* parking spaces?

Not just for me, but for everyone out there living with a major mental illness, or any of the other "silent" disabilities, fuck you you ignorant, idiotic, fool of a bitch.

There. *Now* I've insulted you. And you've never deserved it more.

(Name withheld by request)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2006, 12:18:00 AM »
Out of context, that sounds pretty bad Paul. Was that your intention? Why not post the link so the entire thread can be read?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 270#114008
Preceeded by this lovely thread.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9138&forum=9
And then your one man polls and attacks against me personally for my opinions:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 11&forum=9

If you're implying that I chased Tim away, you are dead wrong. She continues to post here, just as you do. Was there anyone else?

Paul, I think you are a very distressed man.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2006, 12:41:00 AM »
BEING JUDGMENTAL: When people post, you are seeing a "snapshot" of what is happening with their lives and emotions. You are NOT seeing the "whole movie." We all have different situations, and we all have different considerations and backgrounds. Please do not be judgmental about how another person lives their life--if you do, you will make it harder for others to post for fear of being judged. It takes some people a lot of courage to speak up, and a Dr. Laura-type "don't be so stupid" approach can do a lot of harm. Be gentle. And people will be gentle with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2006, 09:34:00 AM »
"Personally, I'd rather hear your personal experience with the drug than a broad generalization."

Who wrote this?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 10:17:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-21 18:18:00, Deborah wrote:

"

I could guess. Paul?


I thought Anons and those who request their names
not to be used are respected around here.

I think the reason why is that if names are used then these discussion quickly break down to name calling rather than the content of the thread -
in this case it was about Geriatric Care - I don't
think so anymore.

I didn't see Paul's name on this thread, and now
it is being attacked. Is this about Paul now. Is Paul even involved? Who knows for sure. But now this thread seems to be about him.

No wonder why there is seldom an attempt at intelligent debate on this forum. It just opens one up to personal attacks.

Perhaps moderating these forums is in order.

Or maybe attacking the poster is what people want?

Now you have brought in this other person, who Anon said did not want her name mentioned. No wonder why she left the Forum, or not.

Regardless, I don't think she will be please that  her name is being printed over and over again in this thread.

Who is responsible for not respecting her right either? And why couldn't she have remained nameless.

I guess it is obvious. It is more important to attack the person, not the content of the thread.

Bummer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 12:28:00 PM »
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... california

STEVE LOPEZ / POINTS WEST


Friends May Be the Best Medicine
Steve Lopez
Points West

February 22, 2006

"They give you sodium pentothal. I remember that they strap you down, so when you come to, you don't fall off the table."

That's Nathaniel Anthony Ayers talking about shock therapy, which he had at the Woodruff Psychiatric Hospital in Cleveland some time after his first psychotic break several decades ago.

We were talking in his new apartment on skid row in downtown Los Angeles, where he was supposed to be giving me a cello lesson. But Nathaniel was in a chatty mood, reflecting on a life of great ambition and greater disappointment. I reached for a pen instead of a bow, and over the next 2 1/2 hours, he revealed aspects of his life he had never talked about before.

"I guess they don't like quitters," Nathaniel said. "I'd quit Juilliard, so they gave me shock therapy."

I interrupted him. You didn't quit Juilliard, I said. You had a nervous breakdown before completing your final year and ended up in a mental hospital.

Nathaniel had been living on the streets of downtown Los Angeles for years when I saw him playing a two-string violin in Pershing Square. In the year since I got to know him, he has never said more than a few words about his schizophrenia or the treatment he received many years ago. The man is seriously ill and I'm no doctor, so, as usual, I had no idea where we were headed as we began exploring the mysteries of his mind.

But I wondered if this was yet another step on his road to some form of recovery and a more honest assessment of his illness. He's been sleeping in his apartment more and more, growing comfortable with the idea of running water and warm blankets. He's been talking about working toward a recital with his cello teacher. And now he seemed to be frankly assessing his mental state.

I decided to plunge in. Sometimes, I told him, he seems to talk to people who aren't there.

"Do I do that?" he asked with a look of dread. "That's socially embarrassing when someone talks to himself rather than relate to a friend and participate in his surroundings."

It sounded like something he'd heard years ago in therapy.

"I don't know if I hear voices or not," Nathaniel said after giving it more consideration. "I don't know if what I'm hearing is abnormal. I think there's an incredible amount of subconscious energy. It emits itself through the brain and into your nervous system."

I'm told that Nathaniel has been closely observing fellow clients at Lamp ­ the skid row center he visits ­ as they act up. He appears to be recognizing his own behavior in theirs, according to Stuart Robinson, one of the agency's directors, who said Nathaniel has been offering words of encouragement to his fellow travelers.

Since the topic was on the table, I asked Nathaniel ­ as delicately as possible ­ to describe the breakdown that landed him in a hospital years ago.

"I could not understand what was going on in New York," he said.

Meaning what?

"I couldn't understand what the constant attack from people was all about."

What attack?

"A person smoking a cigarette in front of you."

As we spoke, he pointed disgustedly to cigarette burns in the carpet, and after compulsively cleaning a window with a squirt bottle of 409, he scrubbed his hands at the bathroom sink. Then he checked the toilet and flushed it for the second time in five minutes.

"Then I had the pressure of my lessons," he said of his days at Juilliard. "I was all alone, no family around, none of my people there."

Your people?

"The black people."

All of which must have made his worsening mental state more devastating and his recovery more daunting. Once his illness kicked in, Nathaniel said, he was prone to fistfights and all manner of abusive behavior, and he recalled the efforts of therapists to rein him in.

"They helped me understand I don't want to behave in a violent way. I don't need to be out of control."

He'd left me an opening here, I thought. Maybe intentionally, maybe not. The few times it had come up in the past, Nathaniel had told me he wasn't interested in doctors or therapy ever again. No way. But his mood sure sounded different now, so I asked if he would consider it.

"I will support any psychiatrist who will support me," he said firmly, telling me that one particular doctor in Cleveland helped straighten him out for a while.

"My mind would not strive to be the best citizen I could be; my mind could not strive to do what's best for Nathaniel. You have no idea what's going on with God, country, yourself. Your relationship with your family erodes, you have no friends, no human desire. You get into fights."

That sounds like a long time ago, I told him, reminding him of all his progress. Nathaniel nodded and said he'd like to make his own contribution to "the psychiatric environment." I asked if he was saying he'd like to one day be a therapist, which isn't as crazy as it sounds. Lots of mental health advocates are former clients.

"I'd want to be a music therapist," Nathaniel answered, saying he'd prescribe music as medicine for the mind and soul. "The real reason for music is to create something to help you understand yourself."

When I later spoke to Dr. Mark Ragins, a psychiatrist who has been one of my sounding boards for Nathaniel's developments over the last year, he said the latest news is all good. He said that sometimes when people come indoors after living on the streets, it can take the edge off and make them less resistant to help. That could be what's happening with Nathaniel. It's the kind of story, he noted, that validates the plan to spend Prop. 63 money on housing and outreach for people who are mentally ill.

I asked if maybe Nathaniel was one of the lucky ones who seem to rebound from schizophrenia in middle age. He might be in the long run, Ragins said, but that type of recovery occurs over a much longer stretch. Instead, he said, he thought Nathaniel's new friendships ­ with me, Stuart Robinson at Lamp and others ­ have driven his recovery.

"Relationship is primary," Ragins said. It doesn't have to be more than once a week, and it doesn't have to be someone with an advanced degree in therapy. "It is possible to cause seemingly biochemical changes through human emotional involvement. You literally have changed his chemicals by being his friend."

I wasn't alone on this, but his point is an important one. Mentally ill people often wear out the patience of friends and family. Unless someone else comes along to take up the slack, they can become completely untethered.

Nathaniel has a long way to go, Ragins reminded me. Acknowledging your mental illness is frightening, he said, and so is coming to grips with the lost years. It takes tremendous courage to get through the day, let alone design a new world for yourself ­ a world of new possibilities also presents new risks.

Don't push him into therapy right away, Ragins suggested. He advised me to remind Nathaniel of the discrepancy between the life he envisions and the hurdles that stand in the way, and gently guide him toward therapy or whatever else might help.

Just before we left his apartment, Nathaniel said it was many months ago that he first considered coming in off the streets.

"When you gave me the Beethoven sonatas," he said, "it gave me the idea of living in a house for the sole purpose of having a piano and learning something from the Beethoven statue" in Pershing Square. "The Beethoven statue encourages me to carry on with the most difficult challenges of my life.

"Professionalism, courtesy and respect. I read that on a police car door."

He never disappoints.

As I began to leave, Nathaniel called me back and gave me a long, firm handshake. He held me in his glance and sealed something there, too.

My smile followed his, and neither of us needed to say a thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
Found the source of this quote:

Personally, I'd rather hear your personal experience with the drug than a broad generalization.

Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#15260
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2006, 12:36:00 PM »
It is probably more important to make
sure to move to a state that supports
Euthanasia after retirement!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline PsyFie

  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
You make the call ... Geriatric care
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2006, 04:17:00 PM »
Hey -- I'm here because of Deborah.  She sure didn't drive me away.  Deborah is one of only two people on the WWW who picked up on and understood what I was trying to get across about my unwarranted labeling, incarceration, and assault and battery at the hands of the "mental health system:"  If it could happen to me, it could happen to anyone!  As far as I can see, Deborah doesn't object to anyone's decisions about what they want to do about their own lives.  (I've been reading as a "nonmember" for a long time.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All restraints upon man\'s natural liberty, not necessary for the simple maintenance of justice, are of the nature of slavery, and differ from each other only in degree.\" -Lysander Spooner, lawyer (1808-1887)