Spring Creek Lodge

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-17 22:24:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2006-01-16 14:40:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:


"Also, he wont have to escape at age 18.  He will be welcomed home when he is ready."

Who gets to decide when he's ready? How do they decide? Cause my guess is that if you could ask him privately, if he trusts you enough to know it's not a fidelity test, he'd tell you he was ready yesterday!



CCM Girl, what happens if Alex wants out and staff doesn't think he's ready?

Either cocaine and marijuana are terribly dangerous substances, and breaking the law by consuming them is a major offense that should be severely punished, or these are minor, personal matters that do not really count in the big picture of a man's life. If the latter is the case, then the rationale for a bloody, costly and futile war against drugs simply disappears.
--Jorge G. Castaneda, Newsweek International, September 6, 1999

"

Yes, CCM, tell us---even though you've never seen the place, met or worked with the "staff,"  never met the kid, and are not otherwise qualified to do so . . . We await your words of wisdom.

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-18 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:


Yes, CCM, tell us---even though you've never seen the place, met or worked with the "staff,"  never met the kid, and are not otherwise qualified to do so . . . We await your words of wisdom.



"

Ok, I'm asking you then.  What will happen?  Who will decide if he's ready?  How will they determine that?

Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly enjoyable to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-step groups.
--Chaz Bufe

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-17 16:24:00, Ashley's Mom wrote:

On the upside, she was just awarded the Golden Key from Scholastics for an art project that was entered.  From here she goes to the Nationals, and if all goes well there, then to an art show in New York City!  

 ::birthday::  ::trophy::  ::nod::

Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-01-17 22:24:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2006-01-16 14:40:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:


"Also, he wont have to escape at age 18.  He will be welcomed home when he is ready."

Who gets to decide when he's ready? How do they decide? Cause my guess is that if you could ask him privately, if he trusts you enough to know it's not a fidelity test, he'd tell you he was ready yesterday!





CCM Girl, what happens if Alex wants out and staff doesn't think he's ready?

Either cocaine and marijuana are terribly dangerous substances, and breaking the law by consuming them is a major offense that should be severely punished, or these are minor, personal matters that do not really count in the big picture of a man's life. If the latter is the case, then the rationale for a bloody, costly and futile war against drugs simply disappears.
--Jorge G. Castaneda, Newsweek International, September 6, 1999

"

Well, from what I have read on this thread, he is seeing a psychologist twice a week. I'm really not sure what kind of case load this person has out at SCL? It depends...if he is receiving a good amount of business from SCL then no matter what he'll recommend him staying there longer then he needs to.

If this is a private doctor who is coming out just to see Alex, then it's a different story.

But, back to your question Antigen......because it's simple enough to answer........until he's 18 he cannot decide when he's ready to leave. That decision is made by a combonation of folks........people who are all feeding off eachother. SCL get's paid....doctor gets paid....parents in return don't have to deal with their child.

The only person who isn't benefiting is Alex. Everybody else gets to pat eachother on the back. Good job! Good job! No, you're the best! No, YOU'RE the best!

 ::puke::

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-01-18 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-01-17 22:24:00, Antigen wrote:


"

On 2006-01-16 14:40:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:



"Also, he wont have to escape at age 18.  He will be welcomed home when he is ready."

Who gets to decide when he's ready? How do they decide? Cause my guess is that if you could ask him privately, if he trusts you enough to know it's not a fidelity test, he'd tell you he was ready yesterday!





CCM Girl, what happens if Alex wants out and staff doesn't think he's ready?

Either cocaine and marijuana are terribly dangerous substances, and breaking the law by consuming them is a major offense that should be severely punished, or these are minor, personal matters that do not really count in the big picture of a man's life. If the latter is the case, then the rationale for a bloody, costly and futile war against drugs simply disappears.
--Jorge G. Castaneda, Newsweek International, September 6, 1999

"

Yes, CCM, tell us---even though you've never seen the place, met or worked with the "staff,"  never met the kid, and are not otherwise qualified to do so . . . We await your words of wisdom.



"

You're right, I have not seen the place. Just pictures, and a ton of kids who come out of there and told their stories.

But, I was at Cross Creek Manor. I spent a lot of time with the owner Bob Lichfield. I know how this guy thinks. He rewarded me with privelages that nobody else received by talking, and brainstorming on how to structure the manor.

I don't like talking about the personal part of our relationship because it's hard for me. I was confused about a lot of things, and in the end it came really close to hurting me. You betray someone who has that kind of power, and control over your life, and you'd better watch out.

I never graduated with a degree in psychology, but I was working on it. In fact, I have probably taken more classes then most of the staff at SCL. Put together that is!

Anywayzzzzzzz! So, then I have 4 1/2 years from when I was 12 to 16 1/2 being in these type of facilities. Not only did I get to experience how they worked, I got to see hundreds, probably even thousands of kids. I roomed with atleast 4 girls at a time, and they always had us changing rooms. So, I got to know plenty of different girls, with lots of different problems. If that doesn't make you an expert in teen psychology, I'm not sure what does???

Before you start screaming back at me.....a degree!!!! I do have a degree......from the School of Hard Knocks that is :smile:!!!

So, yes I do think if I were to meet with Alex and his parents I would have a better chance at bettering their relationship then the morons at SCL.

So, ANON any other questions for me? The doctor is IN baby!

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-18 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:


Yes, CCM, tell us---even though you've never seen the place, met or worked with the "staff,"  never met the kid, and are not otherwise qualified to do so . . . We await your words of wisdom.

Oh? And you know something about this kid?

Please! I know you think you know all about the Program. Lordy bee, you've been wrapped up in it for so long. But I guarantee you, CCM gal knows more of the truth about it than you'll ever allow yourself to see.

What is a committee?  A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.    
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960

[CCM girl 1989]

Why is this person being so protective of the program? Or is he being protective of the parents? He's protecting something..........or hiding something? Which is it?

[Anonymous]

when alex turns 18 and leaves on his own have him sue his parents. Their are lawyers who will take the case and see he has their house and car and any savings. You can write me at [email protected]

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-01-19 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"when alex turns 18 and leaves on his own have him sue his parents. Their are lawyers who will take the case and see he has their house and car and any savings. You can write me at [email protected]



"

God, where were you when I needed you?!! I would've been livin' LARGE! Too late now! But, do you think it's possible other kids out there could choose to do this?

[Anonymous]

Read Spring Creek's web site and the web site for their bogus therapy.  They have like two real therapists for 400 kids, no on-site psychologist--they bring in some guy from out of state, and their consulting "doctor" is an osteopath.  

Kids don't get real therapy there, they get seminars and drugs.  Maybe if they are lucky a sympathetic ear from someone who got their degree out of a cereal box or a diploma mill.

I mean, seriously, the place is in East Bumfu--.  What professional with any real qualifications would want to live there anyway?  

They just hire a bunch of unemployed lumberjacks and washed-up losers who can't get a job anywhere else.

If you think the kid is getting "help," you are wrong.  He's getting forced into compliant behavior.  If you want to really help your son, bring him home to a place where you can visit every week and preferably one that has you join him in some therapy to sort out your stuff.

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-18 16:44:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Why is this person being so protective of the program? Or is he being protective of the parents? He's protecting something..........or hiding something? Which is it?"

I don't know. Just someone who drops in occasionally to castigate program vets. I guess it's probably either someone employed by the industry, a Program parent or both. But who knows? Maybe it's just some mad clown trying to start shit.

As a rule, children love their parents, believe what they teach, and take great pride in saying that the religion of mother is good enough for them.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-19 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"when alex turns 18 and leaves on his own have him sue his parents. Their are lawyers who will take the case and see he has their house and car and any savings. You can write me at [email protected]



"

Well, technically, given adequate thrust and loft, pigs can fly. But that doesn't mean they should. Now, I'm not going to suppose it's any of my place to tell some kid not to sue their parents if they're determined to do it. But damn, Dev! You just don't go throwing gas on this kind of fire. I hope for all the Program families to work things out together. There is just nothing that can take the place of that, if it's possible. And I count myself extremely lucky to have been able to work things out w/ one of my parents, if not the rest of the family. If I had sued him, I think that would never have happened.

You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!

--chongo

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-20 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Read Spring Creek's web site and the web site for their bogus therapy.  They have like two real therapists for 400 kids, no on-site psychologist--they bring in some guy from out of state, and their consulting "doctor" is an osteopath.  



Kids don't get real therapy there, they get seminars and drugs.  Maybe if they are lucky a sympathetic ear from someone who got their degree out of a cereal box or a diploma mill.



I mean, seriously, the place is in East Bumfu--.  What professional with any real qualifications would want to live there anyway?  



They just hire a bunch of unemployed lumberjacks and washed-up losers who can't get a job anywhere else.



If you think the kid is getting "help," you are wrong.  He's getting forced into compliant behavior.  If you want to really help your son, bring him home to a place where you can visit every week and preferably one that has you join him in some therapy to sort out your stuff."

The state has a record of the professionals who work there. Guess we should believe them before we believe you. The therapists at SCL (and there are 9 right now, not "like two") are all licensed and/or certified.  There are three medical doctors; one is an osteopath.

Gosh, if you're feeling fact-challenged, just ask for help. Truth is your friend . . .

 :wave:

[The Liger]

"Cabinet Mountain Mental Health, under the direction of Clinical Director Michael Linderman, is offering mental health services on the Spring Creek Lodge Academy campus. The services provided by CMMH are as follows: Individual therapy, as well as, Adoption group, Chemical Dependency group, Anger Management group, Survivors of Sexual Abuse group, Self-Harm Group, and Eating Disorders Group. Please contact Lori Gerstenberger at (406) 827-4344 ext. 249 if you are interested in enrolling your child in any of the above services or for any questions you might have."  (http://www.blueslide.com/cmmh/)

"Spring Creek Lodge Academy is not therapeutic in nature; however, SCLA has contracted Cabinet Mountain Mental Health services, under the direction of Michael Linderman, to offer to parents at an extra charge therapeutic care services. Complete psychological evaluations are also available by a licensed clinical psychologist who is on campus twice a month. Medication reviews are available weekly by a licensed medical doctor."  (http://www.springcreeklodge.com/therapy.html)

It looks like Spring Creek/WWASPS has a contract with the "therapists" and "doctors" who evaluate students there.  

The CMMH people are listed as:

Michael Linderman
MS, LCPC, Clinical Director

Lori Gerstenberger
Office Manager
     
Jean Witters
MEd, LCPC, CRC
     
Carolyn Chiappetta
MS, LCPC
     
Sonya French
MSW
     
Raoul Ribeiro
BS, counseling intern
     
Rene Parrott
MSW
     
Ellen Talboom
MA, LCPC
     
Mary Pierce
MSW, LCSW
     
Wendie Bauer
MA

LCPC apparently means Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor.  There is hardly any information about any of these people online, but Sonya French (is that not a stripper name?) has a contract with the Montana Dept. of Corrections (http://www.cor.state.mt.us/Resources/Co ... hSonya.pdf)  It has her phone number in the contract...

And one website says that Mary Pierce, MSW, LICSW is a clinical social worker at Brookhaven at Lexington, a continuing care retirement community located in Lexington, Massachusetts.  (http://www.healthliteracy.com/oncallapr2002.html)  

So...is this list of people supposed to be impressive?  One of them has an MA?  One of them has a BS?

And riddle me this:  Why does this place have the same address and contact info as Spring Creek Lodge if they are contracted from outside the facility?

"Contact

Lori Gerstenberger
Cabinet Mountain Mental Health
1342 Blueslide Rd
Thompson Falls, MT 59873
Phone: 406-827-4344 ext. 249
Fax: 406-827-5100
[email protected]"

Also, why don't they name who the "doctors" are so that we can see if the AMA has licensed them?  I'm going to have to call bullshit.

[YuckFou]

The "therapists" are just tools of SCL and are only used to further emotionally manipulate the child. You tell them things in confidence and they tell your family rep and they use it against you in seminars and however else they need to manipulate you. SCL is a freaking joke, and anybody who has been there knows it. Oh yeah... these are just a la carte add ons, just more blood money for WWASP. They find a way to charge for EVERYTHING they possibly can. You'd think at a place to help teens therapy would be included?? Instead, the parents pay extra so the kid can get 20 mins with a 'therapist' who will report everything of importance to the program, used to manipulate him into a stpeford program child. SCL is not helpful, it is harmful. Doing nothing is better than sending a kid to WWASP. A free mind is a healthy mind, do not succomb to the WWASP trap.