Duct Tape

[Anonymous]

I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?

Just rumors?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?



Just rumors?"

You're confusing between two different WWASP facilities. Paradise Cove, in Samoa, was where a kid's head was wrapped in duct tape. The open sewer and the suicide happened at Tranquility Bay, WWASP's facility in Jamaica.

Paradise Cove shut down a few years ago. Tranquility Bay is still operating.

These are not just rumors, BTW-- these are real incidents which have been repeated in many survivors' statements and newspaper articles.

[Bola]

duct tape? yes. making them lie face down in the sand all day, only in extreme cases. the worst i ever saw was this kid who was a level 3 and flipped out one day. i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers, and they tackled him in the sand, dragged him to a small fale, and taped him to a table. they didnt let us on that half of the beach for the next few days, but i remember getting within site one day, and he was yelling at them, so they sprayed him with mortein. (australia's brand of aerosol bug killer) that was the worst i ever saw.

duct tape happened but only if there was no other way. i was in isolation many times; i never got duct taped.

On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?



Just rumors?"

[Anonymous]

duct tape happened but only if there was no other way.

Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way". Truth is, their uneducated, power-hungry staff are always happy to put children through hell for even the most minor infractions... in all the survivors' statements I've read, from many different WWASP facility, I have never heard of even a single case in which staff tried to work things out peacefully before "restraining" the prisoners, sending them to "worksheets", or to solitary confinement.

For a list of all the "consequences", see a Parents Manual for any WWASP facility. Keep in mind that any cat-3, cat-4, and cat-5 offense gets you sent to solitary confinement (known in Paradise Cove as iso, in Casa as R&R, in Spring Creek Lodge as the Hobbit, and in Tranquility Bay as OP), and that staff often make up rules and offenses as they go along. Many former prisoners report that looking out a window, or trying to collect the phone numbers/addresses/other personal info of people in your group (so you could stay in touch when you're back in the free world) were both considered "run plans"

Keep in mind that these people don't even need to make up a reason to abuse children in this way. They are accountable to no one.

[Anonymous]

i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers

duct tape happened but only if there was no other way

Wow, talking back.  That kid was out of control!  What else can you do?  :roll:

[Troll Control]

On 2005-10-04 16:35:00, Bola wrote:

"duct tape? yes. making them lie face down in the sand all day, only in extreme cases. the worst i ever saw was this kid who was a level 3 and flipped out one day. i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers, and they tackled him in the sand, dragged him to a small fale, and taped him to a table. they didnt let us on that half of the beach for the next few days, but i remember getting within site one day, and he was yelling at them, so they sprayed him with mortein. (australia's brand of aerosol bug killer) that was the worst i ever saw.



duct tape happened but only if there was no other way. i was in isolation many times; i never got duct taped.

On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?





Just rumors?"

"

Whoa, wait a minute here.  He was isolated and restrained for several days and sprayed with POISON?  WTF is up with that?  Also, if you were allowed to actually see a kid being sprayed with poison, what went on that you didn't see?

THAT IS FUCKED UP BEYOND BELIEF.

[Bola]

"Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way"."

hey i was there for 2 years, no one ever duct taped me. what would you suggest the samoans do with kids who disrespect them? if you knew anything about samoan culture, this wouldn't be so shocking. in america, we are taught that all hitting is abuse. in samoan culture, they are very physical. they are the most loving, and fun to be around, group of people. if you arent an asshole, and respect them, they are your best friend. a lot of what people are calling abuse, wasnt part of the "program" it was because somebody disrespected a 350 pound samoan guy. not a smart idea, in or out of the program.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 06:42:00, Bola wrote:

""Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way"."



hey i was there for 2 years, no one ever duct taped me. what would you suggest the samoans do with kids who disrespect them? if you knew anything about samoan culture, this wouldn't be so shocking. in america, we are taught that all hitting is abuse. in samoan culture, they are very physical. they are the most loving, and fun to be around, group of people. if you arent an asshole, and respect them, they are your best friend. a lot of what people are calling abuse, wasnt part of the "program" it was because somebody disrespected a 350 pound samoan guy. not a smart idea, in or out of the program. "

Those kids who were at Paradise Cove were NOT Samoan. The people who managed PC weren't Samoan either. These kids were sent there to get help. No matter how you spin it, what went on over there is considered abuse in America. And since these are American children, incarcerated at an American institution, they should expect American standards of care.

There's an American school in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, for the children of American military and civilians working in SA. Saudi law permits public whipping, public executions, and maiming people for minor offenses. Does that mean those American kids should be getting their hands cut off for stealing? Hey, after all, Saudi culture is very physical, and that's what the law says.  :roll:

[Anonymous]

There is no excuse for abuse. Female circumcision in Africa is also part of the local culture, but that doesn't make it right. There is no excuse for the way kids are treated in these programs. It is criminal and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right. What happened at Paradise Cove-- and continues to happen in the WWASP facilities that are still operating-- was and is criminal and wrong, and there's no excuse for such treatment of children.

[Bola]

"Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right."

a tackle and a punch, or even duct tape is not permanent. circumcision is. i never once saw a person severely or permanently injured. about the saudi school, good point. we were in an american school, but we were on a samoan family's land. if you start talking shit about a samoan guy's mom, in an adolescent attempt at getting a rise out the samoan guy, you can expect to get dropped. in all reality, the samoans were a lot nicer than american cops. take it from a guy who has dealt with both.

[Anonymous]

The guy who ran Paradise Cove runs MIDWEST ACADEMY now.  Same program, just a different wrapper.

And the beat goes on ...

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 16:22:00, Bola wrote:

""Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right."



a tackle and a punch, or even duct tape is not permanent. circumcision is. i never once saw a person severely or permanently injured. about the saudi school, good point. we were in an american school, but we were on a samoan family's land. if you start talking shit about a samoan guy's mom, in an adolescent attempt at getting a rise out the samoan guy, you can expect to get dropped. in all reality, the samoans were a lot nicer than american cops. take it from a guy who has dealt with both."

And the scars (both physical and psychological) these kids got from what was done to them by WWASP are also permanent. But it doesn't matter if it's permanent or not. The point is that it's abuse. And abuse is wrong. There is no excuse for that.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I know some Samoans, and yes, that is how they do things. If their kid (and I stress THEIR kid) gets out of line like that, they're in for some physical repercussions.

But what Samoans do in their personal lives is one thing; I certainly wouldn't duct tape my kid's mouth shut or spray him with bug repellent in any situation, but if a Samoan wants to do that, I'll leave that for whatever non-existent 'DSS' there is in Samoa. How they treat kids who are NOT their children and are their responsibility in a residential treatment is a completely different thing.

When I heard those rumors I felt queasy; now that I've heard them confirmed, I'm outright disgusted. I don't care what your excuse is - a student called your wife a nasty slut or whatever - there is never a time that a kid deserves to be abused like that.

I feel terrible for students that endured a place like this. I definitely agree that the emotional scars of even WITNESSING something like that are pretty permanent.

[Anonymous]

What's getting lost in the sauce here is that WWASPS trains kids to control other kids, which is abuse, in and of itself.

The hunted becomes the hunter.