Author Topic: Dear John U  (Read 7548 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jupiter Survivor

  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« on: September 27, 2005, 11:38:00 PM »
John,

Life has taught me much but one of the main things is that many people are needy, emotionally that is.  The SEED fed those needs.  Just as you have many cults, whether they are business, political or religious.  You have and will continue to have zealots preaching the sky is falling in every walk of life.  It fed the needs of, in my case, a parent that had absolutely NO parenting skills and wanted to hand off the problem SHE (and a family pedophile) created to someone else. My problems didn't start with the SEED nor did they end there. The  SEED did however, really mess with my very young confused head. Do you have any idea, how many years I felt I was the one that was wrong?  I was not alone. Being a reformed drug addict DID NOT give you any training to help others.  YOU were an adult.....I was a kid.  You only learned what worked for a select few.  The rest of us were just trying to fit in.....kind of like some of us did with our druggie peers....  I NEVER did drugs(before the Seed), but the staff said I did and that was that.  I "confessed" I did just to appease the staff after 2 months of trying to tell them I didn't. It was the ONLY way to get off the front row. It took over a year to graduate.....my entire 9th grade.  Since I lived in Jupiter, I didn't wasn't allowed to go home for over 7 months.  Wonder why I flunked 9th grade????  I had to sit and listen to staff me tell me that an "education" was a waste.  I guess they didn't want anyone smarter than them too much of a threat.  
.

Could it be Art was clueless, sucked in by the power and adoration, he probably began to see himself as a savior, because everyone kept telling him he was.  Who knows? Shit, even Jim Jones started out pretty good.   I saw Art, for the first time as an old comer, flip out over something so trivial it was pathetic.  IMHO he is a sad pathetic little man. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Imagine his power, over kids that really needed PROFESSIONAL help......sick.  Not like he tried holding power over "normal" people, they were kids and parents that were in crisis.  

I never saw anyone being physically assaulted, but I would have gladly taken that over the imprisonment I had to endure. At least bruises heal, emotional scars last a lifetime, and that is what many here are trying to tell you. I blocked so much out...and I mean really blocked it out, because it was just to painful.

Would it be that hard for you to say.......I'm sorry for what you went through?  If I had known that I would have tried to help.  For some reason that would make me feel validated.  Is it that hard for you to acknowledge that? I realize it can be a little intense here, but you seem to really provoke a lot of it yourself.  Walk a day in my shoes....then talk to me.

I deal with people like you everyday, and everyday I feel like hitting my head up against the wall.  You just don't get it.  

My brother came to an open meeting after I had been, for the lack of a better term "brainwashed".  You almost didn't let him in, you might remember him John. Big blonde guy, tattoo and an earring.  The staff tried to keep him out.  He took leave from the Navy after he found out what my mother had done to my little brother and I.  You and Darlene glared at him the whole time we talked after the meeting.  Even had a staff member sit while we talked.  He told me then "just say the word and you are out of here".  Like a good little programmed kid I told him I needed the Seed.  I would have loved to see him take out the staff......lol  Daydreamed about that for a while.  

Anyway....guess I have rambled enough.  As one of my teens would say....whatever.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FueLaw

  • Posts: 74
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 06:39:00 AM »
Excellent post Jupiter. Your right, Underwood is and was clueless. He certainly didn't get it then perhaps he will start to get it now.

Your post illustrates a fatal flaws in the Seed, or other similar programs approach, what about the kids who had problems other than occassional drug use? What about kids who were abused physically or sexually? What about kids who had bad parents? What about a kid with any other problem in the world? Underwood and his staff were truly incabable and unable to deal with this.

If you read Underwood's initial post , and others that followed, he demonstrates his own lack of understanding beyond any reasonable doubt. Underwood claims he got it from day 1 on the first row? Got what? Milk? The only thing he got was brainwashed, hoodwinked and used up by Barker.

I realize that maybe 10%-20% of the people in the Seed were hard core drug addicts/junkies like Underwood and Libby. That some of these people may have even benefited in some way from the Seed. But what about the other 80-90%?

You can take almost any type of treatment method and achieve some success in terms of getting people to quit using drugs. If you sent 100 physically addicted drug addicts to prison for 2 years some of them would quit using. Does this mean prisons should become the prefered method of treatment? Underwood never understood that one size does not fit all.  

Your post also touches on another topic, "Crappy Parents". The Seed enabled many lousy parents to simply dump their problems off at SR84 or some other facility. The parents were told what they wanted to hear, that it was their children that were the cause of all the problems and not them In addition the Seed would send them a nice wonderful well behaved kid in just 14 or so days. That was just to friggin good to pass up.

Underwood also doesn't understand that he was probably used worse than anyone else. For six years he gave his blood & guts to a cult with a pipe dream. Every cult requires true believers with some ability and presence. Underwood fit the mold to a "T". Without Underwood's commitment and drive the Seed would have a much smaller impact than it did. He had 10 times the ability of Libby or anyome else in there. He was the blood and guts of the place while I was there. At the end of six years he was like a championship racehorse, with no breeding ability, put out to pasture. He was no longer useful so therefore he became expendable.

I also agree with your assesm,ent of Barker. He was just an ego tripping bastard who one day will rot forever in hell.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ft. Lauderdale

  • Posts: 444
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 10:30:00 AM »
"Your post also touches on another topic, "Crappy Parents". The Seed enabled many lousy parents to simply dump their problems off at SR84 or some other facility. The parents were told what they wanted to hear, that it was their children that were the cause of all the problems and not them In addition the Seed would send them a nice wonderful well behaved kid in just 14 or so days. That was just to friggin good to pass up. "


Now you really have no idea what you are talking about... :cry2:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FueLaw

  • Posts: 74
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Please elaborate !, I am not sure about the time frame when you were in there but when I was in there their were parents who left their kids off at the Seed because they couldn't deal with them. Not every Seed parent was a good parent. In my family I had one good one and one bad one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Jupiter Survivor

  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 04:50:00 PM »
I was there in 74......the dates are very fuzzy...I originally thought it was 73.  Like I said the brain blocked that and a lot of other things out. I remember it was late September and I was in 9th grade. It was a little over a year when I graduated. There were quite a few of us from Jupiter, Stuart and Palm Beach Gardens.
When were you there?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FueLaw

  • Posts: 74
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 05:31:00 PM »
I was in Broward(State Road 84) from Fall of '73-July '74. Prior to that Dade.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline rjfro22

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 06:07:00 PM »
FurLaw,
               I was in the Seed the same time as you on SR84
and I don't remember seeing John U all that much back   then. I was there march of 73 till 75 , I believe John was somewhere else during that time, He did show up every now and then.  I also agree with FtLauderdale, the blame is on your parents. Why on earth did they put you in the seed?, I quess you were an angel.
When I did deal with John U , He was pretty decent to me,  Once after the group came down on me for something petty John called me up to his office and asked me  what was wrong , he seemed to be very sensitive to my feelings. He listened to what I had to say, gave me a pat on the back and told me to go back to the group.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Dear John U
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 06:16:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 15:07:00, rjfro22 wrote:

 I also agree with FtLauderdale, the blame is on your parents. Why on earth did they put you in the seed?, I quess you were an angel.


Being at least 40 yourself by now and, therefore, privy to the real behind the scenes lives and personalities of other old farts, why in the world would you just take it for granted that any of the parents must have had good reasons? Once an intake "interview" started they rarely ever resulted in anything but a fresh butt on front row. The decision to initiate the intake was entirely subjective. In my case, my mom was a 2nd generation Oxford believer and Art said druggie attitudes (any behavior or belief that made her uncomfortable) could be cured by his magical methods at the onset of adolescance. She believed him. She's not the only one. Turns out a LOT of Seedlings made up out of whole cloth their past drug use stories just to get off front row.

In large part, a lot of kids landed up there who never had anything close to a drug problem because John and the rest of staff, group and parents were so very sincere and, therefore, very convincing in their belief that every kid presented probably would have taken up a habit eventually.

We are students of words; we are shut up in schools and colleges and recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline FueLaw

  • Posts: 74
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 06:29:00 PM »
Obviously we were there together, at least the 9-10 months of the program I spent in Broward. At that time they had closed Dade and were going pretty strong in St. Pete & Broward. I did a refresher and start over during that time and remember seeing alot of Mr. Underwood. I realize he was also at the other facilities too.

Let me clarify the stuff I said about some "Parents". All I am saying is that some of the kids parents used the Seed as a crutch or escape for their own shortcomings as parents. They were frustrated and maybe lacked understanding of their children and used the Seed as a place to put them and to deal with them. In addition when a parent contacted the Seed or went to an intake interview they were told that the Seed would straighten their kid out in just two short weeks.  ::unhappy:: [ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2005-09-28 15:33 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Dear John U
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2005, 06:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 15:29:00, FueLaw wrote:

 I dont blame her. I blame the liars on staff who did my intake interview.

I think it's useful to discuss both sides of the issue. How I wish our parents were net savvy and willing to talk w/ the struggling parents over on the program support/recruiting forums.

Quote
I am happy Underwood was decent to you. I am not saying he was a SOB 100% of the time.

I don't think there are any 100% SOBs in the whole mix. Ok, maybe some, as in any crowd. But I think they find good purchase in an authoritarian structure where they will not be questioned. Power corrupts, it sure does.

But you know what they say about good intentions.

Quote
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"--
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline rjfro22

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2005, 07:39:00 PM »
Antigen,
               How come the Seed did not accept you ?
If they just wanted to fill up the 1st row.
Didn't your parents try to get you in........
How come you were spared.

We love you
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Dear John U
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2005, 07:46:00 PM »
Well, I've gotten a couple of versions; one from my mom, one from John. They both agree that my parents tried to put me in and that staff said no. Mom says Art cited 'no newcomers who had been through rehab'. She has not always had a real close relationship w/ objective reality. John says it was that I didn't need it, that I wasn't a druggie. But it's hard for me to believe that, having hitchhiked up the Eastern seaboard leaving an empty pot baggie under my mattress.  

So I still don't know the reason why. Maybe they were afraid I'd bring about a mass revolt. Maybe their stories had changed and I had been a wittness to the original versions. I really haven't got any way to get a better answer. I think I'd need a time machine to find out.

What do you think? Or what do you know? I'm not sure who you are, do you know something I don't?


--

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline rjfro22

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2005, 08:18:00 PM »
Antigen,
              Thank you for the answer. I really did not know much about the inside workings of the Seed until this forum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 02:52:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 07:30:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

""Your post also touches on another topic, "Crappy Parents". The Seed enabled many lousy parents to simply dump their problems off at SR84 or some other facility. The parents were told what they wanted to hear, that it was their children that were the cause of all the problems and not them In addition the Seed would send them a nice wonderful well behaved kid in just 14 or so days. That was just to friggin good to pass up. "





Now you really have no idea what you are talking about... :cry2: "


Oh a major BULLSHIT on you.

My parents were told specifically that all the problems in the family were the cause of drugs.  There was even a catchy little phrase "the first time it wasn't your fault, the next time it will be" meaning that if the parents just blindly and unquestionably followed the seed, all would be well

And...when I got off my "10 to 10" and was only supposed to come so many days a week, my parents made my sister and I go to the seed everyday and both weekend days because they were busy trying to start a business, in addition to turning over ALL the household chores to us, all of them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Dear John U
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2005, 02:59:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 15:16:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-28 15:07:00, rjfro22 wrote:


 I also agree with FtLauderdale, the blame is on your parents. Why on earth did they put you in the seed?, I quess you were an angel.

Turns out a LOT of Seedlings made up out of whole cloth their past drug use stories just to get off front row.

"


There was something else going on as well. The culture of the seed gave cred to those that really were hard "on the streets", even hurrying them thru the program, giving more weight to what they said, and grooming them for staff.  Once one submitted himself to the idea of giving into the madness and going for the ride, it was a natural tendency for the youngsters to try to pony up and make it seem like they really had a problem.

I remember specifically making things sound much more severe and worse than they really were, because I thought that would further along my selfish cause, to earn my way out of that hellhole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »