Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-17 08:00:00, corecrash wrote:


Just because you have some favorite christians doesn't mean everyone here does not hate Christians and Christianity.

Then what the hell was this all about?  You're jumping to the conclusion that everyone here hates Xtians and Xtianity.

Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will.  By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-17 08:39:00, corecrash wrote:


I can't remember a time that I walked into a church and saw the members chained to the chairs with their eyes and ears proped open.
<

I can think of a few million who'd like to see ID taught in science class of the public school system.  

If these programs use anything remotely similar to the "12 Steps", that's coerced religion no matter how you slice it.

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302294274/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Cleese

[YuckFou]

Atheist, in my opinion, are the most verbally vicious people I have ever come across.

Here's some facts for you:

According to the 2001 World Almanac, Atheists number:
121 million in Asia
56 million in the former USSR
23 million (3.5%) in Europe
2.7 million in Latin America
1.6 million (0.5%) in North America
0.4 million in Oceania
0.4 million in Africa
The Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted a massive interview of over 50,000 adults. They estimate that 902,000 (0.4%) of Americans identify themselves as Atheists. The number of Atheists exceeds the number of followers of all of the organized religions in the U.S., except for Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. If one were to count the number of Agnostics among the Humanists, Unitarian Universalists, and those who refused to answer the pollster, they would probably outnumber all of the organized religions in the country, except for Christianity and perhaps Judaism.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist1.htm

How many Atheists have you met?

BTW, You are making a ton of assumptions here.

Take your own advice.

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-17 08:00:00, corecrash wrote:

 I'm not grasping for straws when people in this forum over and over attack

Look, this is a truely PUBLIC forum. Unlike the industry support groups, ALL viewpoints are heartily welcome. By virtue of human nature and the contentious nature of the focus of this site, virtually ALL VIEWPOINTS will be pilloried.

How can you whine about people making fun of you after all the fucked up things you've said about your own kid.

Drawing nasty pictures!  :eek: Oh My, well then! Carry on, carry on! And if it doesn't work, I recomend a lobodomy (for you, leave the damned kid alone!)

Sorry, but people who have survived this sort of brainwashing as kids tend to have a short fuse for put-upon, bellyaching parents who just have NO idea what they've done to their kids or how trivial their complaints. It wouldn't be so hard to take if you actually lacked access to the information. But you don't. It's all right there before you, you simply refuse to see and then get all indignant and injured when people try to draw it out in big purple crayon for you.

Dude, I've been through a program and I've been in juvenile detention. Not that I ever did anything to put myself in detention, like hurt anybody, steal anything or cause real trouble. I was only trying to escape the Program.

By comparison, detention was a CAKE WALK! It was boring, it was lock down, but no one was harassing and nitpicking anyone all day long and we actually were allowed to sleep all night long. It was like a vacation by comparison.

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'>Mark Twain

[Anonymous]

:nworthy:

[corecrash]

It means what it implies. I said everyone but I should have said some. Some do hate them and some do not. That was implied, at least in my mind. But Read the post and tell me that "some" do not bash Anchor for their affiliation and beliefs.

If I did make the mistake of generalizing then I've really joined the masses in the forum.

On 2006-01-17 09:19:00, WWFSMD wrote:

"

On 2006-01-17 08:00:00, corecrash wrote:



Just because you have some favorite christians doesn't mean everyone here does not hate Christians and Christianity.

Then what the hell was this all about?  You're jumping to the conclusion that everyone here hates Xtians and Xtianity.

Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will.  By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.

"

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-17 09:53:00, corecrash wrote:

"It means what it implies. I said everyone but I should have said some. Some do hate them and some do not.

Yes, that's true.

. But Read the post and tell me that "some" do not bash Anchor for their affiliation and beliefs.

Yes, that's true...some do.  That is their right.  Some people have a huge problem with the strict interpretation of the bible and an even bigger problem with trying to terrorize children with those beliefs.

If I did make the mistake of generalizing then I've really joined the masses in the forum.

'Sawright, happens to the best of us.  :wave:

If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

[corecrash]

That proves that I have not met all of the atheists. Does it prove that the ones I have met are not verbally vicious? It also proves that you have not met all "Fundies", does that prove that all Fundies FORCE Christianity on you?

On 2006-01-17 09:22:00, YuckFou wrote:

"

Atheist, in my opinion, are the most verbally vicious people I have ever come across.

Here's some facts for you:



According to the 2001 World Almanac, Atheists number:

121 million in Asia

56 million in the former USSR

23 million (3.5%) in Europe

2.7 million in Latin America

1.6 million (0.5%) in North America

0.4 million in Oceania

0.4 million in Africa

The Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted a massive interview of over 50,000 adults. They estimate that 902,000 (0.4%) of Americans identify themselves as Atheists. The number of Atheists exceeds the number of followers of all of the organized religions in the U.S., except for Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. If one were to count the number of Agnostics among the Humanists, Unitarian Universalists, and those who refused to answer the pollster, they would probably outnumber all of the organized religions in the country, except for Christianity and perhaps Judaism.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist1.htm



How many Atheists have you met?

BTW, You are making a ton of assumptions here.

Take your own advice. "

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-17 09:58:00, corecrash wrote:

"That proves that I have not met all of the atheists. Does it prove that the ones I have met are not verbally vicious? It also proves that you have not met all "Fundies", does that prove that all Fundies FORCE Christianity on you?

The Fundies in power sure seem to be trying to do that!!!!!!!!  The Fundies who are most vocal declared that ridiculous 'war on Christmas'.  The vocal Fundies are trying to circumvent separation of church and state every chance they get.  And the worst of the worst, the damn Fundies that claim they can fix kids with the help of Jeebus.

It takes a village idiot to believe that a family needs instruction from the government to raise a child.
-- Anonymous homeschooler

[Anonymous]

This thread should be renamed "the backward ramblings and delusional reasoning of a program parent" !

[corecrash]

How can you whine about people making fun of you after all the fucked up things you've said about your own kid.

I didn't make fun of my son. I stated the facts. His actions, which were in the context of praising him for his accomplishment of turning around.

Drawing nasty pictures!  :eek: Oh My, well then! Carry on, carry on! And if it doesn't work, I recomend a lobodomy (for you, leave the damned kid alone!)

Make lite of his actions all you want. I hope you never have to deal with your son fantasizing about killing your wife and threating to kill because you expect a grade of C out of him.


Dude, please share why you think you were put in DH and why you were put in a home? I'm not going to pretend that there are not any parents that just want to get rid of their kid. There was a post explaining how some parents drop their kids off, never pay a dime, and never return. That is tragic and that is abusive.

Also, Please share with me what you experienced at Anchor. I'd like to know (and I don't mean this sarcastically) because my son tells me that abuse does not occur. Maybe he is scared and not telling the truth, but he has told me that he would not allow anyone to abuse him. That doesn't seem like a scared boy to me.

Sorry, but people who have survived this sort of brainwashing as kids tend to have a short fuse for put-upon, bellyaching parents who just have NO idea what they've done to their kids or how trivial their complaints. It wouldn't be so hard to take if you actually lacked access to the information. But you don't. It's all right there before you, you simply refuse to see and then get all indignant and injured when people try to draw it out in big purple crayon for you.



Dude, I've been through a program and I've been in juvenile detention. Not that I ever did anything to put myself in detention, like hurt anybody, steal anything or cause real trouble. I was only trying to escape the Program.



By comparison, detention was a CAKE WALK! It was boring, it was lock down, but no one was harassing and nitpicking anyone all day long and we actually were allowed to sleep all night long. It was like a vacation by comparison.

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'>Mark Twain

"

[Antigen]

"I suppose it is similar to the people in prison, everyone is innocent."


But different in that, flawed and overburdoned as it is, our criminal justice system is still about the best on the planet for establishing actual guilt and metting out apropriate sentences. The troubled parent industry thinks that disturbing drawings are prima facia evidence of one horrible kid.

The most fundamental purpose of government is defense, not empire.
--Joseph Sobran

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-17 09:53:00, corecrash wrote:

"It means what it implies. I said everyone but I should have said some. Some do hate them and some do not. That was implied, at least in my mind. But Read the post and tell me that "some" do not bash Anchor for their affiliation and beliefs.



If I did make the mistake of generalizing then I've really joined the masses in the forum.

Honestly? I've recently discovered a smouldering resentment for people who routinly behave badly then grab the priest and cry sanctuary.

See, I was raised in the church. Went to Christian school and sunday school, VBS and those dry, boring bible studies led by my brother in law, the deacon. I thought they were good people. More than that, special people to me and exceptionally decent, compassionate and sensible.

Then I was abducted into the Twilight Zone for a couple of years. It wasn't an austensibly religious program, either. But when I got out, I was virtually orphaned. Lost touch w/ those good folks who, by then, were afraid of me because of all the bullshit my mother had been telling them about me while I was locked up. And I got to know some other Christians, all too well. There are the Roloff deciples, of course, the Mormon gulag operators and yer run o the mill Pat Robertson types who go around taking out hits on foreign leaders and blaming God for people like Ray Nagin's incompetence and hubris.

I thought I must have just not noticed how hypocritical and vindictive these folks were, being that I was so young and raised in close community with them.

I've recently rediscovered that I wasn't trippin' after all. These were decent people. I do still draw on much that they taught me over those early years. And it does get my goat when people like the ones who run Anchor jump state to escape investigation and scrutiny and a whole herd of mindless bozos like you discard out of hand the valid complaints that have follwed them for half a century now and insist that it's just that we all hate Christians.

No, you're wrong. We hate child abusers, even self deluded ones. Not even that, really. The church says God loves the sinner and hates the sin. I'm not God and I'm not that generous. I hate the child abuse and am pretty nearly completely indifferent to the child abusers.

God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
http://www.perlservices.com' target='_new'>Perl Services

[corecrash]

Yea, I guess rape is not a very good indicator either.

An our court system does not care about these kids. They let the child welfare system take care of it. Those systems do whatever is cheaper. That system will put a kid back in the home of a crack head parent if Children Services cannot find a cost effective means to deal with it. come on, do you really think the courts or an underpaid social worker that is burnt out cares what ultimately happens to that kid? Again, some do, but listening to the experinces of my wife, a social work in arena of child protective services, they do not care.

The people we spoke to in the court system itself advices us to do whatever possible to keep him out of the system.


The real issue is what to do with a teenager that is completely off the hook. Talking to him doens't help. Sticking him in DH with kids that are worse than him doesn't help. If he won't listen or cooperate with counselors then what?Let him run the streets in hope that he'll find his way home?

I don't think Anchor is perfect. I don't agree with every single action, but nor do I agree with the courts or our "Educated Professionals". If it were up to them, my son would be drugged and they would have collected their fee.

The only evidence I have to base my view on is how my son is now. What comes out of his mouth and how his future appears to be or how his self-esteem appears to be. Right, I can't measure it, but I can observe his behaviors. Maybe he'll revert, I can't know that until it happens.

No one else has given me any evidence. Maybe there was some early on in this forum? I searched the internet before we took him to Anchor and there was nothing on Anchor. I talked to the Mayor and the Sherriff in Havre and they both praised the facility.

On 2006-01-17 10:48:00, Antigen wrote:

""I suppose it is similar to the people in prison, everyone is innocent."





But different in that, flawed and overburdoned as it is, our criminal justice system is still about the best on the planet for establishing actual guilt and metting out apropriate sentences. The troubled parent industry thinks that disturbing drawings are prima facia evidence of one horrible kid.

The most fundamental purpose of government is defense, not empire.
--Joseph Sobran

"

[corecrash]

You still have not shared what abuse you endured at Anchor or the other facility. You also have not shared what actions you committed that made your parents believe you should be there.

I'm disillusioned by some christians as well. I'm also disillusioned by people that are not christians. Being a Christian doesn't by default make a person satisfy all of your expectiation or mine.

I disillusioned by people that blame everyone else for their problems and will not lift a finger to better themselves.