The Oxford Group

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-27 00:59:00, Thom wrote:

Greg, please enlighten me, Who wrote the book of James if not the Brother of Jesus?

Well, I am doubtfull you really wanna go there, do you?

If so, start here

http://www.comparative-religion.com/chr ... /3/4/2.php

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/jamesepistle.html

But Thom, you are opening a hornet's nest here. Better you just keep with your story.

And while your at it, care to link us to the twelve steps, or the origin of the twelve steps, contained in the Book of James?

[Thom]

On 2005-09-27 02:24:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-09-27 01:03:00, Thom wrote:


"

What is the success ratio of AA Thom?



"

100 percent of those who want it, with the exception of some whose brains are too pickled to grasp it."

Again, without your well polished diversionary skills..what is the success rate of AA?



"

Greg, as you know, there are no records of attendance kept in AA, thus, no way of accurately gauging a percentage.

[Antigen]

That's ok. As an organization and as a group, they haven't got a great track record for honesty and integrity anyway. But there are other, better ways to gain access to the information we're looking for here. Here's one example of a peer reviewed study by a respectable institution:

The Harvard Mental Health Letter, from The Harvard Medical School, stated quite plainly:


On their own
There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as "Things were building up" or "I was sick and tired of it." Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.

Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction -- Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
(See Aug. (Part I), Sept. (Part II), Oct. 1995 (Part III).)

Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly enjoyable to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-step groups.
--Chaz Bufe

[Thom]

On 2005-09-27 08:29:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-09-27 00:59:00, Thom wrote:

Greg, please enlighten me, Who wrote the book of James if not the Brother of Jesus?

Well, I am doubtfull you really wanna go there, do you?

If so, start here

http://www.comparative-religion.com/chr ... /3/4/2.php

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/jamesepistle.html

But Thom, you are opening a hornet's nest here. Better you just keep with your story.

I see what you mean. the second link took me to 'a skeptics guide to Christianity'...that's like going to Fornits for reliable recovery information,  :razz:  but I thank you just the same for the links.

And while your at it, care to link us to the twelve steps, or the origin of the twelve steps, contained in the Book of James?"

This link deals with the connection between early AA, and the Epistle of James.
http://www.dickb.com/AAsJamesClub.shtml[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-09-27 14:56 ]

[Thom]

On 2005-09-27 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-09-27 01:03:00, Thom wrote:


"

What is the success ratio of AA Thom?



"

100 percent of those who want it, with the exception of some whose brains are too pickled to grasp it."

There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but they to can recover if they have the capacity to be honest."

Thanks for correcting me with the official answer.  :smile:

[Thom]

[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-09-27 15:31 ]

[Thom]

On 2005-09-27 08:03:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-09-27 00:59:00, Thom wrote:


"

On 2005-09-26 20:49:00, GregFL wrote:



"no Thom, I disagree with coerced 12 step treatment. You say it "doesn't work that way" but then go on to discount every one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other stepcult."

Show me where I have discounted any one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other 'stepcult' I try to keep it on myself. Show me where I haven't."

You want me to pull out your anon and "other" posts Thom? Is that what you are asking?



"

I don't post anonymously (except briefly, before I registered the first time) I do, however, choose alternate identities for humorous effect from time to time. The most recent being 'Gutless Bastard' I hope this helps you in your search.

[Anonymous]

so, what is the success ratio of AA Thom?

[GregFL]

This link deals with the connection between early AA, and the Epistle of James.

http://www.dickb.com/AAsJamesClub.shtml[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-09-27 14:56 ]"

Hmm, your own link states this. Building your house out of a deck of cards, are ya Thom?

"the Epistle of James has been the subject of controversy both as regards the identity of the writer, and as to the time of writing? (p. 1847, note 3)]. This question of identity is: Was the author James,the Lord, brother, or was it someone else? There has been uncertainty about the authorship, and there have been several theories that attempt to resolve the question."

[Thom]

So, the site is forthcoming about the fact that there is controversy. I read that before I posted the link. I have read much of the information and opinions on the subject and am satisfied personally that the book of James was written by a younger Brother of Jesus named James.

[Thom]

Greg, as you know, there are no records of attendance kept in AA, thus, no way of accurately gauging a percentage."

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-28 20:54:00, Thom wrote:

"



Greg, as you know, there are no records of attendance kept in AA, thus, no way of accurately gauging a percentage."

"

AA has done a study, as well as several independent firms.

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-28 20:51:00, Thom wrote:

"So, the site is forthcoming about the fact that there is controversy. I read that before I posted the link. I have read much of the information and opinions on the subject and am satisfied personally that the book of James was written by a younger Brother of Jesus named James. "

Of course you are, your entire house of cards is built around the 12 steps coming from a divine source, isn't it?

[Thom]

Tough to answer your question in that form as I don't consider my faith in God to be a house of cards.

[GregFL]

I thought we were talking about your belief in the divinity of the 12 steps...