Keep Speaking Up! They Are Worried!

[webcrawler]

Dated May 16, 2003

In a letter to Mr. Wilhelmsen, a ways through it, towards the end,
TERRI NISSLEY says:
"We are concerned about the International Survivors Action Committee
because they have attempted to hurt our good name in the community
with untruths. Their attack tactics clearly show an unwillingness to
look at long-term programs in an unbiased and straightforward manner.
Those tactics include attempts to recruit negatively biased comments
about out program, using the Internet to post negative comments and
labeling positive comments as coming from "brainwashed" people, and
calling our accrediting agency and other supporters in attempts to
discredit us. As a result, members of this organization may contact
you. If this happens, please keep in mind that the person calling is
making accusations about Pathway from their experience at an entirely
different program. We are evaluating the options available to us
legally to end their misinformation campaign.
It is also our opinion that this radical group is not interested in
an honest and reasonable conversation that will result in a rationale
analysis of our program. This makes it difficult for us to defend
ourselves in any other way but to forewarn our supporters."

[starry-eyed pirate]

excellent!! :grin:

[Anonymous]

We are familiar with their program. They are practicing an unethical psychological technique called coercive persuasion, and it is very damaging.

Please refer to the work of the late Margaret Thaler Singer, PhD. in psychology, University of California at Berkeley professor and internationally respected expert on cults and coercive persuasion. The following thread contains an article by her on Thought Reform. This is, without question, what Pathways is practicing.

Perhaps the following excerpt from the article will impress on the reader just how dangerous Pathways' methods are:

"in United          States v. Lee 455 U.S. 252, 257-258 (1982), the California Supreme Court          found that "when a person is subjected to coercive persuasion without his          knowledge or consent... [he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible          physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia,          self-mutilation, and suicide."

It is tempting to think that Pathways is the solution to a problem. It is not. It is, in fact, without question, child abuse to subject a child to coercive persuasion.

Webcrawler, if you would be so kind as to post the addresses and suggested recipients to which concerned persons may send complaint letters, I would truly appreciate it. Thank you for speaking up.

[Anonymous]

Forgive me, here is the link to the thread that contains that article by Margaret Singer:

http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10784&forum=7&start=0#115492

[Iamscott17]

Ha!
You know whats funny? when i was on 3rd level i came to this forum. I looked arround, read some stuff, i couldn't believe what you were all saying about my beloved program.

Somehow staff caugght wind of this, and tore me a new asshole. Luckily i got out with only losing my preivelages for a week. But that incident right there showed me what a bullshit place pathway really was. What do they have to hide that their own client should not be allowed to read?
There's a lot of talk about Vicki Winbarger around here, funny...because she was the person that was most upset about me being here.
Interesting, isn't it?
 :wave:

[webcrawler]

On 2005-09-11 12:21:00, Iamscott17 wrote:

"Ha!

You know whats funny? when i was on 3rd level i came to this forum. I looked arround, read some stuff, i couldn't believe what you were all saying about my beloved program.



Somehow staff caugght wind of this, and tore me a new asshole. Luckily i got out with only losing my preivelages for a week. But that incident right there showed me what a bullshit place pathway really was. What do they have to hide that their own client should not be allowed to read?

There's a lot of talk about Vicki Winbarger around here, funny...because she was the person that was most upset about me being here.

Interesting, isn't it?

 :wave: "

That's is so cool to hear! If only they had the internet like today during my phases. I'm glad people like you were exposed to the other side of things while in the program.

So did you check this out at school or did they allow phasers access to the internet in 3rd phase like they do with TV and radio?

[Iamscott17]

Once you are on 3rd level you can use the internet at home with parent supervision....i think thats how it was at least. All i know is that my dad was sitting right next to me, and i wasn't breaking any rules.
My dad also got reemed in parent group, but like me, didn't understand why they would be so upset with me for seeing an alternative view.

But angry they were.Its crazy because when i got confronted in that group, i stood up and said that i honestly didn't see anything wrong with what i did. And everyones hand shot up. My whole group told me they no longer trusted me, and thought that i had been completely dishonest. All because i went to a forum? What the hell?
 
Rediculous.

[webcrawler]

On 2005-09-11 15:54:00, Iamscott17 wrote:

"Once you are on 3rd level you can use the internet at home with parent supervision....i think thats how it was at least. All i know is that my dad was sitting right next to me, and i wasn't breaking any rules.

My dad also got reemed in parent group, but like me, didn't understand why they would be so upset with me for seeing an alternative view.



But angry they were.Its crazy because when i got confronted in that group, i stood up and said that i honestly didn't see anything wrong with what i did. And everyones hand shot up. My whole group told me they no longer trusted me, and thought that i had been completely dishonest. All because i went to a forum? What the hell?

 

Rediculous. "

Technology has changed but "the group" hasn't I see. Of course they would not want you to see any of this stuff because then they would have to start answering for things they practice.

How does your family feel about pfc now? Do they know the monsters in charge all have ties to straight?

[Iamscott17]

Hmm....it seems like my family prefer ignorance over knowing the truth. If you haven't already guessed, i'm no longer "sober".
And when i finally told my parents that i had decided that sobriety wasn't really my cup of tea, and that i didnt' think it was necessary, i tried to make it clear to them that all that money they spent and everything they went through wasn't a waste. Because it wasn't ALL a waste...jsut most of it. I think they understand that a lot of stuff happens there that shouldn't, and now they see that it probably wasn't necessary, but i think they would prefer to believe that it was still a good decision.
I think it is better that way....who wants to think they threw away $40,000 and  ayear of their lives.
Also, i dont think my parents know anything about straight...

 :wave:

[webcrawler]

On 2005-09-11 20:39:00, Iamscott17 wrote:

"Hmm....it seems like my family prefer ignorance over knowing the truth. If you haven't already guessed, i'm no longer "sober".

And when i finally told my parents that i had decided that sobriety wasn't really my cup of tea, and that i didnt' think it was necessary, i tried to make it clear to them that all that money they spent and everything they went through wasn't a waste. Because it wasn't ALL a waste...jsut most of it. I think they understand that a lot of stuff happens there that shouldn't, and now they see that it probably wasn't necessary, but i think they would prefer to believe that it was still a good decision.

I think it is better that way....who wants to think they threw away $40,000 and  ayear of their lives.

Also, i dont think my parents know anything about straight...



 :wave: "

I'm wondering if you graduated the program? Also did you at one time (after leaving) think you had a drug problem?

How long were you there and what would you say is the average length of the program for most people?

When I graduated from the program I could never fully grasp that I really had a drug problem. I used to try and imagine myself as old and having a drug problem for the rest of my life. I just could not see myself fitting into that role. It's hard for me to explain.

You could say I had an awakening of sorts (this sounds cheezy but it was thought provoking)when I heard Drew Barrymore answer as an adult does she still believe she has a drug problem. Her response was something to the effect of no she didn't think so because she was diagnosed in adolescence and that our brains are going through so many changes that it's basically not appropriate to put this diagnosis on kids. Not her exact words, but this is what I got out of what she said.

[Iamscott17]

Yes, i graduated in 2003, exactly one year after i went in.
When i graduated, that was pretty fast, i only know of a few people who had graduated faster than me. From what i hear, these days average stay is like 9-12 months....but i dont have much contact with the PFC folk anymore, so i dont really know.
When i got out, i really did believe i had a drug problem. At least for a little while. I stayed sober for 1 year, 1 month, and 1 day outside of pathway. I'd say the majority of my "sobriety" was to please my parents,but mostly because i had  3 best friends from pathway. We were all like brothers and we were all sober, and there was no way i was going to risk those friends by getting out of the sober thing. plus, its never really a GOOD idea to start smoke pot, or drink alcohol underage..so being sober kept me out of trouble.

When i finally "relapsed" it was kind of the same thing you said webcrawler,i didnt really see myself in 10 years still going to AA and living this sober life. Like you said, i couldn't see myself living that role. To be honest, i have no beef with pathway. I think its a fucked up place and a lot of shit that goes on there shouldn't be allowed to happen. But i won't deny that i got some good out of it. It did help me grow up a bit. But just because i went to pathway and the staff there told me and my parents that i was an addict doesn't mean that i have to be sober for the rest of my life.  

 :wave:

[webcrawler]

I was in straight 22 months. I "relapsed" 6 months later. I too had really close friends from the program, but after I started drinking I drifted from them. They all had their own little clique where they went to meetings then Dennys and AA dances. I went a few times and admit I had fun but that just wasn't my thing to do on a continual basis.

I don't know if pfc followed the tradition of straight making out of town graduates stay in the host home 21 days after graduation with newcomer responsibilties or what. I lived at my host home even after graduating and that's when I went out with the program clique. Once I moved back home I went to 2 AA meetings and I felt really alienated. I could not put my finger on what that feeling was at the time, but I knew I did not belong at those meetings. So I stopped going to any more meetings despite it being a requirement of my 6 month aftercare.

I left that place at 17 and just could not fathom the life sentence of addiction and I'd forever be an addict. I would run this over and over in my head and all the crap how using will never be the same again after being in the program.

I don't like how they tried to convince us having one drink was life or death. I had one lousy beer when I "relapsed". I felt like it was all over at that point because I had 2 and half years sobriety down the drain. I was started over. It was too much. I then just started using all kinds of stuff soon after that because I felt like that one beer erased all my "clean time" and there was just no turning back. Maybe you understand what I'm saying here.

I'm curious as to what things you think makes pfc "fucked up" ?

[webcrawler]

Scott please check you personal messages here. I know some people are trying to contact you.

[Iamscott17]

Hmm....yes, you're "relapse" and mine are pretty similar. i hate using the term relapse, but i guess i'm still somerhwat conditioned to use that type of talking.

I think pfc is fucked up because i know now that me, and many other clients, had totaly differant thoughts and feelings than we were letting out in the program. I didn't feel love from the group, like i often said i did. I thought of the group as almost an enemy. Even though i wanted to stay sober, the group itsself was crazy. To me, pathway was a prison. And the only way out was to cooperate. They make it look like only on 1st level you have to stay at host homes, then you can go home. WRONG. When i went home on 2nd level, it was like bieng in another host home. It made me sick to see my house with alarms and locks everywhere. I couldn't talk to my parents openly. So many times did i want to say "this place is crazy, you havce no idea what its really like" but i couldn't because i was afriad they would go right to staff, and then i was busted. Startwed over,that much further away from geting out. Even when i had an honest desire to stay sober, my maind motivation was to get out of pfc. Everything was fake. When i was on 5th, i was like a nazi. I evforced all the rules and i "fried" everybody for any little thing. But that wasn't because i felt thats what needed to be done to help them, it was because i had to do that because i would look good and it would get me one step closer to getting out. It was a survival tactic. Everything was. I'v already written a lot here, so i'll shutup. The bottom line is that everything i did in pathway was out of fear, fear of being there longer, being out of society, away from real life. The whole progam is based on fear and consequence. I played the game, but the whole thing is sick.

thats all for now, maybe i will elaborate later when after i get some sleep.

 :wave:

[webcrawler]

On 2005-09-13 20:51:00, Iamscott17 wrote:

"Hmm....yes, you're "relapse" and mine are pretty similar. i hate using the term relapse, but i guess i'm still somerhwat conditioned to use that type of talking.



I think pfc is fucked up because i know now that me, and many other clients, had totaly differant thoughts and feelings than we were letting out in the program. I didn't feel love from the group, like i often said i did. I thought of the group as almost an enemy. Even though i wanted to stay sober, the group itsself was crazy. To me, pathway was a prison. And the only way out was to cooperate. They make it look like only on 1st level you have to stay at host homes, then you can go home. WRONG. When i went home on 2nd level, it was like bieng in another host home. It made me sick to see my house with alarms and locks everywhere. I couldn't talk to my parents openly. So many times did i want to say "this place is crazy, you havce no idea what its really like" but i couldn't because i was afriad they would go right to staff, and then i was busted. Startwed over,that much further away from geting out. Even when i had an honest desire to stay sober, my maind motivation was to get out of pfc. Everything was fake. When i was on 5th, i was like a nazi. I evforced all the rules and i "fried" everybody for any little thing. But that wasn't because i felt thats what needed to be done to help them, it was because i had to do that because i would look good and it would get me one step closer to getting out. It was a survival tactic. Everything was. I'v already written a lot here, so i'll shutup. The bottom line is that everything i did in pathway was out of fear, fear of being there longer, being out of society, away from real life. The whole progam is based on fear and consequence. I played the game, but the whole thing is sick.



thats all for now, maybe i will elaborate later when after i get some sleep.



 :wave: "

I appreciate that you are willing to disclose these things. Hopefully it will help others gain some insight as to why this place is questionable to say the least.

I'm not one bit surprised by anything you said here. It sounds exactly like the straight experience. It's no coincidence either. The people that started pfc were from straight.

I know that fear of the group. I've been beginning to question how close I really was with all the people I thought I was. I mean I could not confide my innnermost thoughts and feelings to anyone in there out of fear of being reported and started over. I had to share and relate the way straight wanted me to. There was even a standard we were held to on how we were allowed to express OUR feelings. We could only use a standard set of feeling words, etc. No I was not allowed to be my real self either in that place. Fear of punishment and retribution prevented all that.

Oh in the other reply where you learned some stuff while there. Do you think it is just because you were taken out of your enviroment and you had time to reflect on things and not because that place held the key to some sort of superior knowledge?

For myself I learned things during that period but I attribute it more to the books I read, being away from my previous enviroment, a damn good support group at school with a therapist and having time to reflect (outside the building of course when I could get away with being "in my head" (did you guys have the saying as well "get out of your head?"

Also have you checked out the straight thread or alumni site? I think you may find  alot of similar things regarding your time at pfc.