Author Topic: Typical Day at Sagewalk  (Read 68170 times)

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Offline YuckFou

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« Reply #165 on: July 31, 2005, 10:03:00 PM »
Man does this ST troll like to talk.  :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #166 on: July 31, 2005, 10:41:00 PM »
If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to judge other parents on how they handle their kids' problems---didn't the courts take your kids out of your control entirely???

Isn't that what you're always bitching and moaning about--that your kids were put into some kind of program by the courts and/or your ex--- without your permission???

You know---just because you were a horrible parent doesn't mean that everyone is: so don't be worrying about inconsequential things like whether some parent here refers to a child in the "third person"---as your recent clueless post is focused on

Most of us are good-enough parents---we don't have some court telling us how to raise our kids--- if we need this kind of intervention, a wilderness program or a school, and we can pay for it---we make that choice---with guidance from those whom we trust

That would not---in my books at least---include you---somebody who lost control of her own kids to "others" and who now fights a futileamd ego-driven battle to prove that those "others" made a wrong choice---you are the last person to whom I would come for guidance in raising my kids.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #167 on: July 31, 2005, 10:51:00 PM »
Good Enough Parent,

You are misrepresenting me and my situation. If it's intentional, stop. If you read that somewhere, post the link. My story is here, but it doesn't vaguely resemble your assinine comments.

Do you not have answers for the questions that have been posed, or are you ignoring them?

I don't think I'd venture to 'guide' you either. I dont' waste my time on nuts that won't crack.

Did you pay for it? Or did your school district? Did your insurance company pay for institutionalized 'parenting'? Did you take tax write offs for trips to see your 'disabled' kid?


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-07-31 19:58 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #168 on: July 31, 2005, 11:04:00 PM »
Yep, Deb. You are a piece of work. The parenting expert!!  I now remember-your axe to grind is that you didn't get to make the decisions about your kids. So-those of us who had the ability to make choices are bad parents!  

We tend to speak in the third person to emphasize that we are not just speaking of our own kids, but those of many of us caring parents on the strugglingteens board.  

I noticed on the Island View thread that a number of former teens believe Island View saved their lives. They are saying this here on THIS FORUM.  Whoops-don't they know that this is only for people wanting to bash programs!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #169 on: July 31, 2005, 11:46:00 PM »
Wrong again. I don't fit into any of your pat catagories for parents who aren't on board with warehousing their kids.

FWIW, third person sound cold.... detatched.... emotionally void.... I personally think referring to your child in third person (the kid, the teen) can allow you to forget they are human beings with feelings and needs, and to subject them to all manner of inappropriate 'treatment'.

And of course, I realize it is frequently used to create bonds with other struggling parents.

Now, back to those questions. Any answers?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #170 on: July 31, 2005, 11:50:00 PM »
YOU FUCKING INSULTING ANIMAL!!!

I go to that board and I'm nice, I post politely even though I hate you and I disagree. Then you bastards come over here and you dont even act civil? You are comeplete hypocates, no wonder your kids are so fucked up!!! No wonder they hate you!!! I spit on you and everything you stand for.

You are not caring!!! You sent your kid away!! Guess FUCKING WHAT!!! THATS NOT CARING!!! CARING IS NEVER LETTING IT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. One day your kid will see this and he/ she will hate you and everything you are, but you will say you are right, because you are blind!!!

You say we are a hate group? You are worse, we may hate you, but you, you come the fuck over here, dont even have the balls to sign your post, and you act like your perfect little fucks raising your kids they way it was ment to happen. You are hypocates, you stand at Struggling teens and act like your all good and open minded but your more blind than us, all of you are animals, and dishonorable shit that I would not take the time to scrape off my boot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #171 on: August 01, 2005, 12:03:00 AM »
yeah, I needed to vent, I feel better now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #172 on: August 01, 2005, 01:30:00 AM »
you're right on OverLordd, don't let these bad parents get you down.  I really respect what you're doing.  

The point is this: There are too many cases of abuse and wrongful deaths that have occured at wilderness camps and teen treatment facilities.

 Parents don't bother to intervene in their child's lives until the behavior becomes a threat, i.e. crashing cars, selling drugs, getting in fights.  A good parent is one who respects their child, and their child's privacy, but who knows their child well enough to recognize the first signs that something is wrong.  Any parent that makes a point of talking to their son or daughter at length everyday, keeping up with their his/her school activities, who their friends are, and keeping in contact with the child's friends parents, is a parent that is on top of things, and when problems come up (all teenagers try to rebel in one way or another, that's just normal), but when any problems come up, the parent will know their child and the child's peers well enough to be able to nip the problem in the bud.  But these parents who are too busy living their own lifes, or too stressed and tired to really bother being active in their kid's life, are just asking for a "troubled teen."  

You should not have or adopt a child unless you are willing to make a life-long commitment to stay by that child's side no matter what it takes, and even if your child bores you with talk about their interests, friends, boyfriends, girlfriends, music, clothes, school, sports, whatever, you should still listen with an open ear and take note of everything your child tells you, and not just say  "uh huh" and "okay" because kids pick up on that, and then they start to keep things to themselves, and that is how parents lose control of their children.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #173 on: August 01, 2005, 10:15:00 AM »
You are so full of shit.  I hope you never have kids, because you would be literally shocked to death at how your fairy tale version of the "right things to do" can turn out.  Do you think these parents didn't do many of these things?  It ain't that easy, moron.

Overlordd- I'm disappointed in your rant. You were beginning to make some friends over on the other site.  All that will be destroyed now with your immature swearing and anger.  Too bad I can't post it over there- but it is too ridiculous to be appropriate.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #174 on: August 01, 2005, 10:32:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-08-01 07:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You are so full of shit.  I hope you never have kids, because you would be literally shocked to death at how your fairy tale version of the "right things to do" can turn out.  Do you think these parents didn't do many of these things?  It ain't that easy, moron.



Overlordd- I'm disappointed in your rant. You were beginning to make some friends over on the other site.  All that will be destroyed now with your immature swearing and anger.  Too bad I can't post it over there- but it is too ridiculous to be appropriate.    "

Wow, you're a nasty insulting little cunt, aren't you?  Is this how you talked to your kid to make him nuts and "need" a program?  It's clear to me that anyone forced to spend any amount time with a nasty bitch like you would want to get high or crash a car into a tree.

You call others full of shit and morons, but just look at yourself.  Trolling a bb all hours of the day and night for the purpose of insulting and degrading some teenagers.  What are you, some kind of "junior staffer" or something?  Don't you have something better to do?

Maybe you should light up a joint, have a drink and get laid for a change.  It might do you some good, Mrs. Robinson...
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Offline webcrawler

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« Reply #175 on: August 01, 2005, 10:48:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-07-25 13:34:00, dougm wrote:

"I don't know how to really dispell the myths about Sagewalk being a "boot camp" and students being "tortured and abused" other than just describing how a typical day went for me. This is rather long so pop some popcorn or something...



Day starts off by counselors calling 5 minutes. This means that everyone has 5 minutes to be dressed, have their sleeping bags hung on a tree, grab their food bags, and be sitting around the firepit. If everyone does not have this done by 5 minutes, everything gets put back the way it was, then you do it again until every thing is completed in the 5 minute slot. After this, there is hygeine. This involves filling your cup with water and soap, taking your rag and washing your face, hands and feet. I believe 8 or 10 minutes was given for hygeine. You had to be checked off by a counselor. If not everyone was checked off by a counselor in the allotted time, everyone had to do it again, although it was fairly easy the second time around, since most everyone was already clean and didnt need to do additional scrubbing. Then came breakfast, usually 20 minute time limit. Breakfast consisted of usually cold oats, with water, powdered milk, and then if you rationed well, brown sugar and raisins. If a fire was going, campers had the option of heating their oats, although only a few did so (I preferred my oats cold). You were required to eat at least 2 cups of oats, and one quart of water, both checked off (one girl forgot to check off that she had drank her quart of water, was forced to drink another and promptly vomited next to me) After this, you needed to clean your cup, which involved taking making mud and scrubbing the inside of your cup with it and rinsing it out until it was spotless. If everyone did not have their food eaten and cups cleaned by time limit, then spices would not be available for later meals (you needed to make 3 time limits in a row in order to have spices). All food that was prepared is required to be eaten, regardless if you feel full or the food doesn't taste good. Some people vomited because of this, including myself after using too much spice on my rice and lentils. After this, usually came some sort of planned activity, gathering firewood, some sort of group therapy, or when we were moved to a site in the Orinoco (?) Forest, day-hiking (food and water only, no packs) up mountains and through forests and what not (probably the most fun activity there, incredibly beautiful) although we couldn't really do this at the high desert site and apparently, SW has moved back there where I spent my first 10 days or so. Gathering firewood was rather difficult in the high desert, since we were required by both SW and BLM policy to take only dead and down trees. Lunch was usually very light, just some granola and another quart of water. Very easy to make time limit, if there was one (sometimes we would stop hiking and sit and snack then continue). This meal wasn't required, but was only taken away if the group was misbehaving (never taken away if we were hiking or going to hike). Afternoon activities were performed, sometimes our "homework", coursework that focused on goals, aspirations, management skills, etc. not your typical math, science, english etc. or more firewood collecting, therapy, etc. Dinner was usually at sunset or so (preceeded by hygeine again), since we could not really do much after dark anyways. Dinner was rice and lentils except for Wednesday nights and Thursday nights. Wednesday night, we were given dehydrated refried beans and tortillas, made absolutely amazing (well, in comparison to the rice and lentils) burritos and Thursday nights was Macaroni night, which if you still had some cheese (most was used during burrito night) could make mac and cheese. Even without cheese, however, just regular macaroni was much better tasting than the rice and lentils. Since Rice and Lentils take at least 20 minutes to cook on the fire, time limit was either 40 minutes or 60 minutes depending on behavior (longer time limit for better behavior). While food was cooking, we were required to write a page in our journals. We also had a moment of silence (controversial, i think) and this was also the time when most of the group therapy occurred, when counselors encouraged the campers to express greivances, whether it be with SW, the counselors themselves, other students, or just problems in general. Usually, this either allowed for compromise and conflict resolution, or sometimes flared tempers (some girl I remember believed in Creationism, which I was fine with, but then she started ripping on evolution, which I was not cool with). Food was then eaten, then cups cleaned, food bags put away and we were dismissed to bed. Although we did not have any concept of time of there other than what day it was, I could guess that we received at least 11-12 hours of sleep a night (7-8pm till 7-8am).



Perhaps the least fun activity, and the one with the most controversy, would be the hiking.  This involved taking down camp, with a time limit, packing up, then hiking upwards of 8 miles. Taking down camp involved dismantling the shelter, usually 2 or so tarps tied up to trees with rope. Filling in the firepit, filling in the latrine, then rock and sticking it. Filling up the "reds" (small water jugs). Spilling excessive water from the reds would require you to lift a full "red" above your head 25 times yelling at the top of your lungs "I will not spill the red, this is for my safety (rep number)". After the camp was taken down, next (still during time limit) was to pack our packs...usually involved rolling our gray mats (what we sit on around the campfire) and our tarps up, strapping to the back of the pack, then filling our packs with our sleeping bags, extra clothes and food bags. Packs usually weighed somewhere around 80 (supposively) pounds, depending on how full the food bag was. In addition, several were assigned to carry the full "reds" (probably between 10-20 lbs) in their hands, and someone with the empty whites and siphon hose. Hiking was what you made of it. I had undiagnosed diabetes, I weighed 115 (when I finally got diagnosed and started insulin, I spiked at just under 150 lbs, 35 lbs weight gain in about 3 months) and was chronically fatigued. My first hike, we need to scale a small rock face, basically about 100 ft of steps. I fell over a few times and threw up. I was reassured by my peers that this was normal, and the counselors would make us continue until we reached our destination, regardless of fatigue level. The counselors gave us a break after 1/2 mile after we finished the rock face climb. After I got some water in me, I felt much much better and we hiked another 5 miles or so, me only falling over once more due to a misstep. I was also taught early on in my program that the biggest key to hiking is packing your pack correctly, putting your heavy stuff on top and making sure the waist straps are above your hips. After this tip, hiking was fairly easy, with the only real problem being overall fatigue from high blood sugar (all food is high in carbs to provide energy, which was not good for me). After hiking, camp set-up, opposite of camp take-down with time-limit.  If camp setup or takedown took longer than time limit, rules dictated that we were supposed to re-do it all over again (45 minutes worth of work) but many times, the counselors, if they saw genuine effort and hustle (or if problems out of camper control came to light) they were pretty lienent.



I'm positive I've forgotten many things, or certain details are incorrect, it has been 3 years since I attended. If you have any questions as to other stuff, feel free to post them here, or im usually on AIM/AOL at phawktard. Please, if you're going to contact me on AIM, don't abuse this. I'm more than willing to answer questions as long as they're not of rhetorical nature...leave your criticism here on the board.



Doug

"



Doug, I'm gathering that you thought the place was good for you?

Here's some things that concerned me about your stay at SW. Having a medical condition go undiagnosed, unbalanced nutrition, too much physical exertion, and the hygience practices.

I'm just curious if you had undergone a complete medical exam before entering and if you could expand on the hygiene. Were you able to take showers while there? I can't imagine menstrating as a female and not being able to shower in the morning. Sorry to get graphic here, but that is something that needs to be taken care of.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am looking for people who survived Straight in Plymouth, Michigan. I miss a lot of people there and wonder what happened and would like to stay in touch.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #176 on: August 01, 2005, 11:00:00 AM »
"The point is this: There are too many cases of abuse and wrongful deaths that have occured at wilderness camps and teen treatment facilities."

I do not dispute this point.  I don't make light of the abuse and I would never dream of mocking  another's very real pain just to have something to laugh at.

However, you are making some very large assumptions about the parents who seek help for troubled, self-medicating, self-destructing, in many cases mentally ill children.  And in my case, you are dead wrong about the kind of parent I was and am.

I suspect you have never parented a teen of any kind, struggling or not.  With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about until you have walked a mile in my shoes.
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Offline webcrawler

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« Reply #177 on: August 01, 2005, 11:03:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-07-26 01:20:00, dougm wrote:

"I was taken involuntarily in the middle of the night. I'm not sure as to how my parents were referred to SW. By the sounds of it, most other kids were either escourted against their will or they were duped into going. As for "abductors for hire" I was escourted by a family friend. Still have no idea why you believe the profit motive is the main reason behind this, do you know how much insurance these places require?"


No offense Doug, but I'm reading your posts and you really don't sound like you were that "bad" of kid. It just seems a little extreme that you were sent to this place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am looking for people who survived Straight in Plymouth, Michigan. I miss a lot of people there and wonder what happened and would like to stay in touch.

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #178 on: August 01, 2005, 11:13:00 AM »
Guess what troll, I always do the right thing. There is no other way to be a good person or even a good parent. I will never sacrfice doing the right thing. I will never make a active choice to do something that is wrong. That mean I would never send my kid away. The right thing to do does not die, it gets harder, and you apparents failed to do it.

I do have friends at ST and I have friends here to, and one little rant is not going to break a friendship, if it does, they were never my friends to begin with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #179 on: August 01, 2005, 11:19:00 AM »
Let me know how that works out for you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »