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Offline Deborah

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2005, 11:21:00 PM »
Uh, yeh, I think there is a major problem re: parental rights. Now they're giving sixth graders "Sex Surveys".
What?s next? Teen Screen comes in to dx and label these kids so they can get the ?appropriate? treatment for their illness?

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive ... 02005a.asp
Mass. Parents Riled About 6th-Grade 'Sex Survey'
By Jim Brown and Jody Brown
June 10, 2005
(AgapePress) - Parents in one Massachusetts town are expressing outrage over an explicit sex survey being ADMINISTERED TO SIXTH-GRADERS WITHOUT DISCLOSING THE QUESTIONS TO MOMS AND DADS.

Parents in Shrewsbury are upset that the local school committee is refusing to reveal the content of its version of the Centers for Disease Control's "Youth Risk Behavior Study." The 22-page YRBS on the CDC website [PDF] contains 87 questions, seven of which deal with sexual behavior. The survey solicits answers to such questions as "How old were you when you had sexual intercourse for the first time?" and "The last time you had sexual intercourse, did you or your partner use a condom?"

The school committee in Shrewsbury WILL NOT ALLOW PARENTS TO VIEW COPIES OF THE SURVEY BECAUSE THEY FEEL PARENTS WILL "MISINTERPRET" THE QUESTIONS. However, parent David Fisher says unbelievably, THERE IS NO CONCERN THAT SIXTH-GRADERS WILL MISINTERPRET THE QUESTIONS -- and he contends the questions go even further.

"In the 6th grade -- these are CHILDREN 11 OR 12 YEARS OLD -- they are being asked if they have ever engaged in oral sex, when was the first time that they engaged in oral sex, with how many different people have they engaged in oral sex," Fisher says. "And they ask the same three questions about sexual intercourse, and whether or not they've used a condom, amongst other things." A word search of the online version of the CDC survey, however, turns up no mention of oral sex.

Still, Fisher -- who has an 11-year-old daughter in the school system -- says there is a great deal of anger among parents in his neighborhood and across the town.

"First, [because] of the contents of the survey -- and then secondly, [because] we have been purposely kept in the dark and [are being] made to feel as though we're backward, we're ignorant, [and] we would misinterpret these questions," the Massachusetts father remarks. "THE PROBLEM IS, WE INTERPRET THEM CORRECTLY. IT'S THE SCHOOL DEPARTMENT THAT IS MISINTERPRETING THESE QUESTIONS [AND] SEEING NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM."

According to Fisher, a sex survey being administered to Shrewsbury eighth-graders asks students to identify themselves as heterosexual, "gay or lesbian," or bisexual.
Current state law in Massachusetts allows parents to opt their children out of programs that involve human sexuality, but Fisher and other parents are fighting for a bill now in the State House that would CHANGE THE OPT-OUT POLICY INTO AN OPT-IN POLICY.
© 2005 AgapePress all rights reserved.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2005, 11:31:00 PM »
***Funny how the author of this piece has such a great fear of a potential mistaken diagnosis ruining a person's for their whole life, a haunting dilema that would last a lifetime ... but finds nothing wrong with Chelsea's parents going public with her assessment results.

Uhhh. I don't think they, or Chelsea are concerned about making her 'assessment results' public because they think it is BS.

Paul, in the big picture... the government does not care a whit about the health and well being of children, as witnessed by the total lack of public policy. Look at the stats. As the most 'powerful' and wealthy nation on the planet, we should not rank 6th in quality of life. Back to the point... the government does not care about Chelsea's (or any other child's) mental health except to the extent that it supports a 'healthy economy'.

Any citizen of the US has the right and ability to seek psychiatric services, just as medical, or dental, etc. THAT'S voluntary. We don't need the government screening kids in school, where they are a captive audience. God only knows what else is going on in schools that parents have yet to discover.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2005, 11:52:00 PM »
FROM THE ARTICLE:
***Although the PROGRAM assesses a TEEN's general mental health, Shern underscored the risk of suicide, the third leading cause of death among 15- to 19-year-olds in Hillsborough County in 2002, and the second leading cause of death among Pinellas teens.***

TeenScreen attempts to create in the media, a suicide hysteria, when in fact suicides are on the decline. The suicide rate for ages 10 to 19 fell from 6.2 deaths per 100,000 people in 1992 to 4.6 per 100,000 in 2001, according to the Center for Disease Control. In 1991, 10 of 100,000 people in Florida ages 10-24 committed suicide. By 1999, that number had dropped to six out of 100,000.
In Pinellas County, Florida, an ongoing research project has already established that a large majority of teens who committed suicide were on psychotropic drugs or had received psychiatric treatment. In the years 2002 and 2003, 81% of the suicides were either on psychotropic drugs or had received psychiatric treatment. This percentage may rise as the research continues.

***The pilot PROGRAM, created by one of the nation's elite universities and used in 41 states, would cost the district (read ?tax payer?) nothing.***

That?s a crock. The tax payer will end up paying for this, just like everything else. And the ?program? is not cheap. More subtle corporate welfare for the industry.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9#107762


***Columbia University can pay for pilot PROGRAMS through financial donations, Shern said. No drug companies pay Columbia any money, according to TeenScreen's Web site. The university will not disclose donors' names.***

"For some odd reason, Columbia and TeenScreen want to keep their funding sources secret," Kramer says. "To stop people from finding out how much drug company money is being funneled to TeenScreen, the University recently revised a press release on its website and removed a statement regarding its donation of $19 million to TeenScreen," he reports.
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Offline Deborah

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2005, 12:04:00 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/healt ... ed=1&8hpib

Snake Phobias, Moodiness and a Battle in Psychiatry
By BENEDICT CAREY
Published: June 14, 2005
Excerpts:

In a report released last week, RESEARCHERS ESTIMATED THAT MORE THAN HALF OF AMERICANS WOULD DEVELOP MENTAL DISORDERS IN THEIR LIVES, raising questions about where mental health ends and illness begins.

In fact, psychiatrists have no good answer, and the boundary between mental illness and normal mental struggle has become a battle line dividing the profession into two viscerally opposed camps.

ON ONE SIDE ARE DOCTORS WHO SAY THAT THE DEFINITION OF MENTAL ILLNESS SHOULD BE BROAD ENOUGH TO INCLUDE MILD CONDITIONS, WHICH CAN MAKE PEOPLE MISERABLE AND OFTEN LEAD TO MORE SEVERE PROBLEMS LATER.

ON THE OTHER ARE EXPERTS WHO SAY THAT THE CURRENT DEFINITIONS SHOULD BE TIGHTENED TO ENSURE THAT LIMITED RESOURCES GO TO THOSE WHO NEED THEM THE MOST AND TO PRESERVE THE PROFESSION'S CREDIBILITY WITH A PUBLIC THAT OFTEN SCOFFS AT CLAIMS THAT LARGE NUMBERS OF AMERICANS HAVE MENTAL DISORDERS.

The question is not just philosophical: where psychiatrists draw the line may determine not only the willingness of INSURERS TO PAY FOR SERVICES, but the future of research on moderate and mild mental disorders. Directly and indirectly, it will also shape the decisions of millions of people who agonize over whether they or their loved ones are in need of help, merely eccentric or dealing with ordinary life struggles.

"This argument is heating up right now," said Dr. Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association, "because we're in the process of revising the diagnostic manual," the catalog of mental disorders on which research, treatment and the profession itself are based.

The next edition of the manual is expected to appear in 2010 or 2011, "and there's going continued debate in the scientific community about what the cut-points of clinical disease are," Dr. Regier said.

PSYCHIATRISTS HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY FOR SOME BIOLOGICAL MARKER FOR MENTAL DISEASE, TO LITTLE AVAIL. ALTHOUGH THERE IS PROMISING WORK IN GENETICS AND BRAIN IMAGING, RESEARCHERS ARE NOT LIKELY TO HAVE ANYTHING RESEMBLING A BLOOD TEST FOR A MENTAL ILLNESS SOON, LEAVING THEM WITH WHAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS HAD: OBSERVATIONS OF BEHAVIOR, AND PATIENTS' ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL AND HOW SEVERE THEIR CONDITION IS.

Dr. Stuart Kirk, a professor of social welfare at the University of California, Los Angeles, who has been critical of the manual, gives EXAMPLES OF WHAT COULD, UNDER THE CURRENT DIAGNOSTIC GUIDELINES, QUALIFY AS A SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER: A COLLEGE STUDENT WHO EVERY MONTH OR SO DRINKS TOO MUCH BEER ON SUNDAY NIGHT AND MISSES HIS CHEMISTRY CLASS AT 8 A.M. MONDAY, LOWERING HIS GRADE; OR A MIDDLE-AGED PROFESSIONAL WHO SMOKES A JOINT NOW AND THEN DRIVES TO A RESTAURANT, RISKING ARREST.

"Although perhaps representing bad judgment," Dr. Kirk wrote in an e-mail message, these cases "would not be seen by most people as valid examples of mental illness, AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT NO UNDERLYING, INTERNAL, PATHOLOGICAL MENTAL STATE."

He added, "LET US NOT REVISE DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA THAT HELP US MAKE CLINICALLY VALID STANDARD DIAGNOSES IN ORDER TO MAKE COMMUNITY PREVALENCE DATA EASIER TO JUSTIFY TO A SKEPTICAL PUBLIC."

After a prolonged controversy last year over the use of antidepressants in children, most experts say the last thing psychiatry needs now is for this process to turn into a public fight over who is sick and who is not.

But this fight may be hard to avoid. The two sides are far apart, debates over the diagnostic manual are traditionally contentious and despite increasing openness about mental illness the public tends to be skeptical of any prevalence numbers over a few percent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Paul

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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2005, 01:30:00 AM »
[Same article that Deborah posted, without any upper case, or shouting, that I assume she put in for bias purposes. Please read the article and consume the contents for  and develop your own thoughts - Paul]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/healt ... nted=print

June 14, 2005

Snake Phobias, Moodiness and a Battle in Psychiatry

By BENEDICT CAREY

A college student becomes so compulsive about cleaning his dorm room that his grades begin to slip. An executive living in New York has a mortal fear of snakes but lives in Manhattan and rarely goes outside the city where he might encounter one. A computer technician, deeply anxious around strangers, avoids social and company gatherings and is passed over for promotion.

Are these people mentally ill?

In a report released last week, researchers estimated that more than half of Americans would develop mental disorders in their lives, raising questions about where mental health ends and illness begins.

In fact, psychiatrists have no good answer, and the boundary between mental illness and normal mental struggle has become a battle line dividing the profession into two viscerally opposed camps.

On one side are doctors who say that the definition of mental illness should be broad enough to include mild conditions, which can make people miserable and often lead to more severe problems later.

On the other are experts who say that the current definitions should be tightened to ensure that limited resources go to those who need them the most and to preserve the profession's credibility with a public that often scoffs at claims that large numbers of Americans have mental disorders.

The question is not just philosophical: where psychiatrists draw the line may determine not only the willingness of insurers to pay for services, but the future of research on moderate and mild mental disorders. Directly and indirectly, it will also shape the decisions of millions of people who agonize over whether they or their loved ones are in need of help, merely eccentric or dealing with ordinary life struggles.

"This argument is heating up right now," said Dr. Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association, "because we're in the process of revising the diagnostic manual," the catalog of mental disorders on which research, treatment and the profession itself are based.

The next edition of the manual is expected to appear in 2010 or 2011, "and there's going continued debate in the scientific community about what the cut-points of clinical disease are," Dr. Regier said.

Psychiatrists have been searching for more than a century for some biological marker for mental disease, to little avail. Although there is promising work in genetics and brain imaging, researchers are not likely to have anything resembling a blood test for a mental illness soon, leaving them with what they have always had: observations of behavior, and patients' answers to questions about how they feel and how severe their condition is.

Severity is at the core of the debate. Are slumps in mood bad enough to make someone miss work? Does anxiety over social situations disrupt friendships and play havoc with romantic relationships?

Insurers have long incorporated severity measures in decisions about what to cover. Dr. Alex Rodriguez, chief medical officer for behavioral health at Magellan Health Services, the country's largest managed mental health insurer, said that Magellan used several standardized tests to rate how much a problem is interfering with someone's life. The company is developing its own scale to track how well people function. "This is a tool that would allow the therapist to monitor a patient's progress from session to session," he said.

Although the current edition of the American Psychiatric Association's catalog of mental disorders includes severity as a part of diagnosis, some experts say these measures are not tough or specific enough.

Dr. Stuart Kirk, a professor of social welfare at the University of California, Los Angeles, who has been critical of the manual, gives examples of what could, under the current diagnostic guidelines, qualify as a substance abuse disorder: a college student who every month or so drinks too much beer on Sunday night and misses his chemistry class at 8 a.m. Monday, lowering his grade; or a middle-aged professional who smokes a joint now and then drives to a restaurant, risking arrest.

"Although perhaps representing bad judgment," Dr. Kirk wrote in an e-mail message, these cases "would not be seen by most people as valid examples of mental illness, and they shouldn't be because they represent no underlying, internal, pathological mental state."

Separating the heavies from the lightweights - by asking, say, "Did you ever go to a doctor for your problem, or talk to anyone about it?" - has a significant effect on who counts as mentally impaired.

After researchers reported in a large national survey in 1994 that 30 percent of Americans adults had a mental illness in the past year, Dr. Regier and others reanalyzed the data, taking into account whether people had reported their mental troubles to a therapist or friend, had received treatment or had taken other actions.

They found that the number of people who qualified for a diagnosis of mental illness in the previous year plunged to 20 percent over all; rates of some disorders dropped by a third to half.

But limiting the count to those who have taken action does not give an accurate picture of the extent of illness, argue other researchers, who have been sharply critical of efforts to drive down prevalence estimates.

Dr. Robert Spitzer, a professor of psychiatry at Columbia University and the principal architect of the third edition of the diagnostic manual, wrote in a letter to The Archives of Psychiatry, "Many physical disorders are often transient and mild and may not require treatment (e.g. acute viral infections or low back syndrome). It would be absurd to recognize such conditions only when treatment was indicated."

He added, "Let us not revise diagnostic criteria that help us make clinically valid standard diagnoses in order to make community prevalence data easier to justify to a skeptical public."

Dr. Ronald Kessler, a professor of health care policy at Harvard and the lead author of the 1994 survey and the nationwide survey released last week, said squeezing diagnoses so that many mild cases drop out could blind the profession to a group of people it should be paying more attention to, not less.

"We know that there are prodromes, states that put people at higher risk, like hypertension for heart disease, which doctors treat," he said. "You can call these milder mental conditions what you want, and you may decide to treat them or not, but if you don't identify them they fall off the radar, and you don't know much of anything about them."

In the survey released last week, Dr. Kessler and his colleagues found that half of disorders started by age 14, and three-quarters by age 24. "These are people who may show up at age 25 or later as depressed alcoholics, maybe they're in trouble with the law, they've lost relationships, and from my perspective we need to go upstream and find out what's happening before they become so desperate," Dr. Kessler said.

One condition whose estimated prevalence has bounced around like a Ping-Pong ball in this debate is social phobia, extreme anxiety over social situations. In a 1984 survey, investigators identified social phobia primarily by asking about excessive fear of speaking in public. They found a one-year prevalence rate of 1.7 percent.

But psychiatrists soon concluded that other kinds of fears, including a fear of eating in public or using public restrooms, were variations of social phobia. When, in 1994, these and others questions were included, the prevalence rate rose to 7.4 percent.

Dr. Regier re-evaluated the data using a different criterion for severity and found a much lower rate: 3.2 percent. Last week, Dr. Kessler reported a rate of 6.8 percent.

"You can see why people have a hard time believing these numbers because they change so much depending on how you look at the data," said Dr. David Mechanic, director of the Institute for Health, Health Care Policy and Aging Research at Rutgers University.

Yet the cutoff points for disease severity have real effects on the lives of people like Paul Pusateri, 48, a Baltimore business analyst.

Mr. Pusateri said he was outgoing through college but then had a panic attack in his mid-20's, as he was preparing to give a speech. He managed to build a career and family despite surges of anxiety before speeches and meetings. But finally, more than two decades after the first symptoms, he reached a point where he dreaded even small or one-on-one meetings with familiar co-workers.

"It's very bizarre; the only way I can describe the feeling is, Imagine walking down the street at dusk having someone put a gun in your face and threaten to kill you - having that absolute terror before a routine work meeting," he said.

Mr. Pusateri said that, perhaps unconsciously, he applied severity criteria to his own growing mental struggles. He may have set the bar too high: only when he began badly mangling presentations at work, and then dreaded going in at all, did he tell his wife that he felt he was in trouble. His wife had watched a therapist talk about social phobia on television, and soon he was getting help.

He considers himself lucky to have found a diagnosis at all, not to mention a therapist. "I was desperate by the time I did anything about it, I saw that my livelihood was at stake," he said.

Yet by all outside appearances, and by some strict definitions, he might not have qualified as having a disorder until he took some action.

In the coming years, Dr. Regier's office will be responsible for clarifying the thresholds of disease for the next diagnostic manual, to somehow identify difficult cases like this one, while remaining credible to insurers and to the public at large.

After a prolonged controversy last year over the use of antidepressants in children, most experts say the last thing psychiatry needs now is for this process to turn into a public fight over who is sick and who is not.

But this fight may be hard to avoid. The two sides are far apart, debates over the diagnostic manual are traditionally contentious and despite increasing openness about mental illness the public tends to be skeptical of any prevalence numbers over a few percent.

"That's the problem," said Dr. Regier, "people hear these higher prevalence rates and they immediately start thinking about severe, disabling schizophrenia. But we know these surveys include a lot of mild cases, and we need to ask, How significant are these?"

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
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Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2005, 01:32:00 AM »
http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/r ... age=recent

Mental Health and Treatment

Discuss the evaluation and treatment of depression, and other issues related to mental health.

 First Post   Latest Posts    (10835) < Display Thread       Check for New Posts


rredrosie - 10:40 AM ET June 14, 2005 (#10836 of 10842)

coverage for already diagnosed

Isn't the more important issue here getting insurance companies to fully cover medical treatments for people with disorders already classified as mental illness? I'm not so concerned about whether social phobia is a mental illness when millions of americans with long-accepted mental illnesses (depression, anxiety, schizophrenia) cannot affordably access medical services, EVEN WHEN they have health insurance. Almost all insurance companies limit the number of therapy visits automatically, no matter what illness is diagnosed simply because it is mental illness. There are no limit on visits to other types of doctors (imagine, sorry you already visited your internist 2x this yr, you'll just have to manage that strange rash by yourself). Mental health care needs to be priced and available at the same level as regular health care - thats the really serious problem here.

-h

opaguy - 1:20 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10837 of 10842)

CART BEFORE THE HORSE (or ASS, as the case may be)

In the mental health field just as in other fields the principle that must be applied is "what is the big picture?" Just as with legislation, the problem cannot be completely handled FROM WITHIN the field - it is time society realizes its' own guilt in the illnesses and tragedies of others, and makes amends all round - going through a mental illness is bad enough but it is made intolerable when people also make you feel crazy by not participating in your life in a way that acknowledges that they are a part of the mental state you are in - there is no perfect individual state: each of us has a hand in the misfortunes of other people near us, and that especially includes the therapists and analysts themselves!! - the analytical principle has depleted its promise - now it is time to pick up the greatest instrument the mental health could wield: take responsibility and show others how they are NOT taking responsibility for the misfortunes of others.

rodsesq - 1:25 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10838 of 10842)

OMYGAWD -- a DSM-5?

I have a proposal for the DSM-5. Instead of 'social phobia' as a diagnosis, how about 'fear'. The treatment for fear is much less expensive than the treatment for 'social phobia'. Instead of treating with pills, therapies, 'coping' mechanisms, and professional sympathy(ugh!), one treats fear with courage. Since what gets put into the new Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5)is a matter of majority vote by the psychiatrists belonging to the American Psychiatry Association, all it would take is a concerted lobbying effort by the insurers and other members of the ruling class.

By the way, you and I don't get to vote.

This article reminds me of the psychiatrist hired by the State of California to consult about my daughter's learning disability. The shrink decided to recommend 'genetic counselling' (sterilization to those of you who don't understand euphemisms), despite the documented fact of my daughter's birth trauma. She gave NO advice on educational approaches to my daughter's disability. One wonders why that psychiatrist was hired, much less paid for her opinion. One also wonders why we should let politically correct eugenicists and other Nazi Doctors vote on an issue over which we don't have the power to vote.

Perhaps countermeasures are in order.

masonpms - 2:15 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10839 of 10842)

rredrosie - 10:40 AM ET June 14, 2005 (#10836 of 10838)

Another frustrating aspect of Health Ins and Mental Health, is that the Mental Health portion of the policy is contracted to another provider such as Magellan. This adds another layer of burocreacy that the patient has to deal with in getting services. I was hospitalized last year for a week and it took exactly one year for all the bills to be settled. I spent an entire day on the phone with Horizon BC and Magellan. Bills were coded wrong, authorizations were not obtained according to Magellan, and bills for Ambulance services (700.00 to go 24 miles) were deemed out of network.
When I had my son I had every test, two hospitalizations, a C-section and I never saw bill one. I paid a 200.00 deductible and that was it.
Here in NJ with a population of 8 million, there are 4,000 beds allocated for Mental Health. Imagine someone with another life-threatening illness being told, sorry we don't have a bed for you, but mentally ill people are sent back home or the streets left to their own devices. It is a travesty.

cstprofuwlax - 4:04 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10840 of 10842)

TO: markpavlich

You wrote, "If we take a look at the physical body and how we classify characteristics, we could group abnormalities into these groups:
Deformities
Malfunctions
Infestations
Pathologies ([self] induced by alliances)"

To me, deformities, malfunctions, and infestations are all close to the same level of generality.

Deformity: the organism itself is flawed.

Malfunction: the organism is not working properly.

Infestation: the organism has been invaded and is malfunctioning as a result.

I think if you check the dictionary you will find that "pathology" has a much broader, more general meaning than these other three do. At its roots, it translates as "naming / words for [logy] sadness or sorrow [path]" and it identifies the medical field concerned with diagnosis of disease (Oxford English Dictionary).

Perhaps "injuries: the organism has been damaged by external forces or itself" would be more properly parallel?

ejdiv - 4:54 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10841 of 10842)

Mental Health & Psychology

All of the posts are superbly worded, but as a soon to be mental health professional, we as good consumers should know that their is more than one school of thought on these issues as well. A perfect example is one of context... At one point or another we have all been in a "slump" or a bad mood that doesn't mean that we have a social disorder of some kind. Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trained in a medical model which only looks at presenting symptoms, while us social workers are trained to look at the person as a system and to use the bio-psyco-social model of evaluation. So that same slump that would get you a diagnosis from a MD, you wouldn't necessarily get from an MSW. The point of my post is to try to educate you, the public about the differences between mental health providers, and how the theoretical thought processes are different. I am not bad mouthing other mental health professionals, I just wanted to point out the theoretical differences between them.
Emor J. DeCann
[email protected]

eligottlieb02 - 6:13 PM ET June 14, 2005 (#10842 of 10842)

Mental Health is a perspective

islander3 #10827 1:34 PM ET 6/13/2005

If you are being sarcastic, you're perfectly correct. If not, you're entitled to your incorrect opinion.

I would simply like to say that all mental health treatment should be voluntary and even discouraged. Why? Because unlike physical health, mental health has no basis in fact. For thousands of years humanity recognized physical injury and illness as health problems, but emotional fluctuations and misery have simply never been treated as matters of health until the twentieth century. Why? Because until the twentieth century you couldn't just dehumanize people like that. In the old days we told people to destroy the cause of their unhappiness, today we tell them that that cause is "just the way of things" and give them a pill or several. Never do we stop to consider that the unhappy person may be justified in their unhappiness or even actually correct in their judgments of external factors.

In physical health there is a standard of what constitutes "health". That standard is to ask "How far is this person from death?" There is no standard of "death" in mental health, "health" is taken to mean emotions and perceptions appropriate to one's life situation in the eyes of the evaluator.

When we give the power of police enforcement and mandatory hospitalization to anyone we are equating their perceptions with facts, a dangerous proposition even where people are not concerned. Psychology and neurophysiology, like all sciences, become corrupt if their users do not admit their own motivational impurity, do not admit to practicing applied science instead of pure. Thus, the existence of psychiatry, the use of mental sciences to bring about "well adjusted" mental states, as a supposed science is, itself, a travesty.

Why should any particular person by well adjusted to any particular environment? Where did G-d say "Thou shalt FUNCTION!" As others have said, quite often the environment itself is diseased. Environments become diseased precisely because we apply a false ethos that people exist for them and not the other way around. When we bend people to environments instead of environments to people, it is a societal gangrene.

Religious persecution is something we have tried to do away with, and psychiatry is very much a religion. It has tenets it takes on assumption, and derives the rest of its knowledge from them. Thus, only treat the people who agree with that faith. Psychiatric services should by all means be OPTIONAL. Mental sanctity is as much of a right as physical life. In fact, I believe the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights says it IS. When you treat someone against their will, you alter their state of mind against their will and thereby violate their right of mental sanctity.

I have been in the belly of the beast and tell you these things.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2005, 02:21:00 AM »
"I don't think they, or Chelsea are concerned about making her 'assessment results' public because they think it is BS."

Deborah, jeeperz, stop cherry picking.

If the basis of their lawsuit is that an initial
assessment would put a lifetime of harm on their
child, when the info was given just to her, to
share with just her parents, and they had the
choice to do something, or nothing ...
and they chose to go public, public!

If you don't see anything wrong with this picture
then, frankly, I suggest stop posting and sit in your room and listen to your internet radio and talk to yourself! Would you even listen to yourself?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Deborah

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2005, 01:23:00 PM »
To recap what the issues are for the intellectually challenged:

Although school administrators reportedly sent letters home to parents of students invited to take the test, Michael and Teresa Rhoades say they NEVER RECEIVED THE LETTER.

In the tort claim, the family also claims that when Chelsea took the test, she was IMPROPERLY DIAGNOSED with obsessive compulsive disorder and social anxiety disorder. That diagnosis, they claim, caused both the teen and her parents emotional distress, and the family intends to seek the "maximum amount of damages."

Mr. Whitehead went on to explain the complexity of the situation as many of the TeenScreen people are attempting to STEP AROUND FEDERAL LAWS PROTECTING PARENTAL RIGHTS by utilizing SCREENING WITHIN THE CURRICULUM, where parental consent is not required.

At issue is that the school did not obtain the Rhoades' permission. INSTEAD THE SCHOOL HAD THE MINOR CHILD SIGN, GIVING HER PERMISSION TO BE SCREENED USING AN "ASSENT" FORM.

Howard said earlier that information on the test was sent with other material and parents were asked TO RETURN A FORM ONLY IF THEY DID NOT WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO TAKE THE TEST.  (Passive consent)

So, what happens to the parent who does not believe their child has a 'mental illness', therefore does not seek ?help? based on the results of the screening?  Do they receive a visit from the friendly folks at CPS?

Going public is often necessary to bring about reasonable and rational change. Had the Rhoades not gone public, do you think the district would be reviewing their policy? I don't think so. Silence is perceived as agreement/consent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2005, 02:03:00 PM »
I guess we will have to wait until the facts
come out in the case before rendering any
premature judgements, correct?

A verdict will come, until then it is all
hearsay and press releases.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Deborah

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2005, 09:06:00 AM »
http://www.ablechild.org/kauffman/ameri ... linois.htm
Mrs. Ayalla Kauffman, a mother of 8 came to Ablechild alleging that her two youngest children were taken by the State of Illinois Department of Children and Family Services (DCFS) for what she was told by the DCFS Caseworker to be A 90 DAY MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATION/ SCREENING PERIOD for the girls. When the 90-Day period was up, the State of Illinois DCFS refused to release the two girls back into the care of their mother. Mrs. Kauffman has reported allegations that her two girls are being abused in State care. Mrs. Kauffman states that both her girls have been PHYSICALLY RESTRAINED numerous times to the point of obvious bruising on their bodies. In addition, Mrs. Kauffman has reported that her children are being ADMINISTERED UNAPPROVED AND DANGEROUS PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS WITHOUT HER CONSENT. Many of these drugs have been linked directly to suicide and violence, are unapproved for use in children, and have blackbox warnings on their labels. Mrs. Kauffman has reported that ANY CONTACT WITH HER CHILDREN HAS BEEN TERMINATED BY THE RESIDENTIAL CENTERS AND THE ?TREATING? PSYCHIATRISTS. This is being done EVEN THOUGH THE COURT HAS NOT TERMINATED MRS. KAUFFMAN?S VISITATION WITH HER CHILDREN.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2005, 09:07:00 AM »
UPDATE:

June 16, 2005

Contact: Patricia Weathers   845-677-4118

Sheila Matthews   203-966-8419



Illinois Attorney General's Office Closes Phones to the Public



The State Attorney General's office closed the phones to the public when an onslaught of phone calls flooded in on Thursday regarding the Kau***** children, ages 10 and 13, who are being held by the State of Illinois.  These children are being administered psychiatric drugs, some which are not FDA approved for use in children and carry black box warnings on their labels.  The State of Illinois never obtained proper and full informed consent prior to "treatment".  Parental consent was not given.  Mrs. Ayella Kau*****, the girl's mother, was never provided with any valid, objective medical reason why her children are being forced drugged with powerful psychiatric agents.



The State has made several accusations regarding Mrs. Kau*****'s credibility, which they have failed to substantiate. These allegations have stigmatized Mrs. Kau*****and her ability to effectively fight on behalf of her children.  A clear example of this is the Chicago Police Department's failure to take Mrs. Kau*****'s many complaints seriously and investigate this urgent matter, jeopardizing her children's safety.



Compelling photographs of Ar***** and Ei**** Kau*****on Ablechild's home page (See http://www.ablechild.org/Kau*****/ameri ... linois.htm) has driven a firestorm into the State Attorney General's Office, leading to the shutdown of phone access for the public and their right to petition its own government.



"It is very sad when a parent asks the State to help improve their parenting skills and they GET THEIR CHILDREN TAKEN FROM THEM and FORCE FED MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS that are not only ineffective, but that are downright dangerous," says Patricia Weathers, President of Ablechild.org a non profit 501c(3) organization.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2005, 09:49:00 AM »
Deborah,

Thanks for posting this, I will follow it,
as I was not aware prior to your post.

Please don't SHOUT when posting articles.
I think everyone on Fornits knows how to
read.

We can figure out the talking points, upper
caps are so annoying it makes me want to skip
your articles, except I know they mean a lot
to you.

If you want to bullet talking points at the
end of each of your cut and pasted posts that
could be a workable alternative.

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2005, 10:32:00 AM »
If anyone has time today could you call
the hotline established by Chelsea's dad
and find out the volume of calls?

How many parents in that town have jumped
on his bandwagon of complaining about the
TeenScreen Assessment.

From what I recall the article indicated
no one had called, but it has been a week,
perhaps volume is up, or his relevancy is down?

Either way, something must be garnered from
a well intentioned hotline to expose this issue?

Correct?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2005, 10:42:00 AM »
It will be interesting when the facts come out.

Obviously by your post, and your upper case
selections and perhaps selective snippets
it appears the whole story is not included.

Rarely does every government official and
every residential facility blatently break
the law. Regarding everyone breaking the law
at one, that has probably never happened.

Notes need to be taken for every action and
progress report notes are written up for
any contact with the children. It will sure
be interesting to find out what is happening
in the case.

Hopefully the state does not shout, or use
uppper case so the documents will be easier
to read, allowing the reader to form their
own opinions and conclusions.

If Ayalla Kauffman is acting innapropriately
at the residential facilities they do have
the right to ban a parent. Just like in
public civil disobedience or any crime against
the safety of the public is not tolerated.

I am sure there are notes and rational to each
of the cited incidents. Until they come out,
reaching a conclusion is impossible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parent
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote

On 2005-06-17 06:07:00, Deborah wrote:

UPDATE:

June 16, 2005

Contact: Patricia Weathers   845-677-4118

Sheila Matthews   203-966-8419



Illinois Attorney General's Office Closes Phones to the Public



The State Attorney General's office closed the phones to the public when an onslaught of phone calls flooded in on Thursday regarding the Kau***** children, ages 10 and 13, who are being held by the State of Illinois.  These children are being administered psychiatric drugs, some which are not FDA approved for use in children and carry black box warnings on their labels.  The State of Illinois never obtained proper and full informed consent prior to "treatment".  Parental consent was not given.  Mrs. Ayella Kau*****, the girl's mother, was never provided with any valid, objective medical reason why her children are being forced drugged with powerful psychiatric agents.



The State has made several accusations regarding Mrs. Kau*****'s credibility, which they have failed to substantiate. These allegations have stigmatized Mrs. Kau*****and her ability to effectively fight on behalf of her children.  A clear example of this is the Chicago Police Department's failure to take Mrs. Kau*****'s many complaints seriously and investigate this urgent matter, jeopardizing her children's safety.



Compelling photographs of Ar***** and Ei**** Kau*****on Ablechild's home page (See http://www.ablechild.org/Kau*****/ameri ... linois.htm) has driven a firestorm into the State Attorney General's Office, leading to the shutdown of phone access for the public and their right to petition its own government.



"It is very sad when a parent asks the State to help improve their parenting skills and they GET THEIR CHILDREN TAKEN FROM THEM and FORCE FED MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS that are not only ineffective, but that are downright dangerous," says Patricia Weathers, President of Ablechild.org a non profit 501c(3) organization.







Deborah,



Where is the source of this story, or report. It is a newspaper? Is it from an organization like ablechild.org? Did they use the upper case shouting? Did you?



If it was you, in the future, could you note that these are your special affects?



Is there any newspaper articles that you could post, written by a professional reporter who is skilled in sorting out the fact prior to writing an article?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.