American History -

[Anne Bonney]

I sure did. It's also part of why I have a problem with religion at all. It just seems to breed mistrust, hate and an argument of "my god is better than your god" or "my god is the real god". Why did the Christians feel they needed to spread anything? Why couldn't they let people worship they way they wanted to instead of how the Christians think they should?

You consider handing out Bible quotes outside of the Muslim gathering to be 'stirring the pot'?

Yup, I sure do.

So, I guess they shouldn't attempt to do this at all, then?

I question their motives.

They should be run off by the cops?  I think you agree with me there, at least (that's what I'm really trying to get at, not so much whether or not they were stirring the pot...that's secondary to what I'm addressing here; I don't think they were, but w/e.) The fact that COPS were brought in to the situation is what's chapping my ass about this; it's fucking bullshit.

Yes, I agree with you on that part.   I don't think they should have been run off by the cops.  That being said, the intent may be secondary to you, but it's not to me.  Why can't they just let people worship how they want, or not at all?  I'm sick of people trying to "save" me, or anyone else for that matter.  I had enough of it in Straight, I don't need it out in the real world.

You hand out literature about the dangers of AA outside of AA meetings, or at least advocate this, is this not true? Nothing wrong with that, right? I don't think so, either. By the same token, is there anything wrong with what those Christians were doing on the street in Dearborn? Maybe they feel that Islam is violent and a bunch of shit, or maybe they just wanted to spread the Word... in any case, what they were doing isn't that different from that, is it?

Point taken, but I think the consequences are a little greater in stirring the pot regarding religion.  Nobody's gonna start a war over AA meetings.  And I did say that they shouldn't have been run off by the cops.  I just think it was ill-advised.  Edited to add.....the same way I think it was ill-advised to, at this point in time, try to install a Muslim YMCA near ground zero.  That doesn't mean I think the government should've barred it, just as I don't think the cops should have been involved with the Christians handing out the leaflets..... I don't think the government should be involved in the Mosque/MuslimYMCA deal at all - but it doesn't mean I don't think it wasn't an ill-advised concept.

Which, again, is part of why I have such a problem with religion in general.  It just seems like it boils down to who's god is the right/true god and people die over it.  A lot of people.

[Froderik]

Point taken, but I think the consequences are a little greater in stirring the pot regarding religion.  Nobody's gonna start a war over AA meetings.  And I did say that they shouldn't have been run off by the cops.  I just think it was ill-advised.

Which, again, is part of why I have such a problem with religion in general.  It just seems like it boils down to who's god is the right/true god and people die over it.  A lot of people.

If we are going to look for a place to lay blame, etc... I guess we should step back and look at the people involved, moreso than religion itself. At this point it would be silly to attempt to abolish religion anyway, even if we all wanted to. I agree that religion should be taken with a grain of salt. Spirituality is one thing; religion another. People should lighten up and focus on how they treat others, and then worry about the religion.

[Anne Bonney]

Point taken, but I think the consequences are a little greater in stirring the pot regarding religion.  Nobody's gonna start a war over AA meetings.  And I did say that they shouldn't have been run off by the cops.  I just think it was ill-advised.

Which, again, is part of why I have such a problem with religion in general.  It just seems like it boils down to who's god is the right/true god and people die over it.  A lot of people.

If we are going to look for a place to lay blame, etc... I guess we should step back and look at the people involved, moreso than religion itself.

That's what I've been trying to say all along!  I dunno....I've literally been called a traitor and un/anti-American because I don't hate all Muslims.  It feels like that's what people are trying to get me to do.....hate them because of how they've been raised, regardless of who they are as individuals.  

At this point it would be silly to attempt to abolish religion anyway, even if we all wanted to.

I would never advocate that, ever.  I want people to do whatever helps them to live a better life.  If it's believing in God, great, but if it's not (or believing in a different God) then I want that to be great too.  The main problems I have with religion are that it's used to control people and like I said, it seems to boil down to a huge fight over who's is the 'right' one.  Religion has caused more deaths, IMO, than anything else ever has simply because of that fight.

I agree that religion should be taken with a grain of salt. Spirituality is one thing; religion another. People should lighten up and focus on how they treat others, and then worry about the religion.

Again, that's what I've been trying to say all along.  I guess I haven't done a very good job of it.

[Froderik]

Again, that's what I've been trying to say all along. I guess I haven't done a very good job of it.

Well I don't know, sometimes it takes discussing a thing before the people involved in the discussing realize they are more 'on the same page' than maybe they thought they were...and, we all have our own ways of stating things, too, i guess...

[Anne Bonney]

Again, that's what I've been trying to say all along. I guess I haven't done a very good job of it.

Well I don't know, sometimes it takes discussing a thing before the people involved in the discussing realize they are more 'on the same page' than maybe they thought they were...and, we all have our own ways of stating things, too, i guess...

 :cheers:

[Froderik]

Well without getting too heavily engrossed in those documents, I guess we can surmise that since our FF (founding fathers) were of Christian faith it is only natural that the U.S. can be considered a Christian nation, in some respect? This does not seem like much of a stretch to me...pretty simple, really...

I think today's "left" likes to harp on the Crusades and any other ugly side of Christianity it can drag out of the closet in effort to denigrate it. Exactly why they so readily play into this bullshit is what I'm still trying to figure out...Christianity was never intended to be any of those things by Jesus Christ. It is Christ's disciples, and the descendants and 'hangers-on' that mucked things up in the long run. Jesus would puke if he saw how an originally good message was twisted and exploited over the years.

That incident in Dearborn, MI is disturbing. All those Christians were doing was attempting to spread part of the New Testament to some Muslim folks, and they got run off for it. I didn't see any "pot-stirring" going on there... it seems like the "left" (self-proclaimed Democrats) is biased against Christianity to say the least.

:bump:

[Anne Bonney]

Well without getting too heavily engrossed in those documents, I guess we can surmise that since our FF (founding fathers) were of Christian faith it is only natural that the U.S. can be considered a Christian nation, in some respect? This does not seem like much of a stretch to me...pretty simple, really...

I think today's "left" likes to harp on the Crusades and any other ugly side of Christianity it can drag out of the closet in effort to denigrate it. Exactly why they so readily play into this bullshit is what I'm still trying to figure out...Christianity was never intended to be any of those things by Jesus Christ. It is Christ's disciples, and the descendants and 'hangers-on' that mucked things up in the long run. Jesus would puke if he saw how an originally good message was twisted and exploited over the years.

That incident in Dearborn, MI is disturbing. All those Christians were doing was attempting to spread part of the New Testament to some Muslim folks, and they got run off for it. I didn't see any "pot-stirring" going on there... it seems like the "left" (self-proclaimed Democrats) is biased against Christianity to say the least.

:bump:

Well without getting too heavily engrossed in those documents, I guess we can surmise that since our FF (founding fathers) were of Christian faith it is only natural that the U.S. can be considered a Christian nation, in some respect? This does not seem like much of a stretch to me...pretty simple, really...

Saying that we're not a Christian nation doesn't mean that the FF weren't Christians (although I believe most were deists).  They realized the inherent dangers in basing a government on ANY religion.

I think today's "left" likes to harp on the Crusades and any other ugly side of Christianity it can drag out of the closet in effort to denigrate it.

When I bring it up it's to illustrate that ALL religions can be bastardized and horrible things done in their name.  

Jesus would puke if he saw how an originally good message was twisted and exploited over the years.

Totally agreed.  My opinion is that he was a hippy kind of guy who looked around him and wanted to make the world he was living in a little better. He would be flipping out at some of the things done in His name.

That incident in Dearborn, MI is disturbing. All those Christians were doing was attempting to spread part of the New Testament to some Muslim folks, and they got run off for it. I didn't see any "pot-stirring" going on there...

I sure did.  It's also part of why I have a problem with religion at all.  It just seems to breed mistrust, hate and an argument of "my god is better than your god"  or "my god is the real god".  Why did the Christians feel they needed to spread anything?  Why couldn't they let people worship they way they wanted to instead of how the Christians think they should?

it seems like the "left" (self-proclaimed Democrats) is biased against Christianity to say the least.

I renounced my Dem status a few years ago, but my problem with it is what I just said above.  Why can't they just let people be?  Why do they push it on people?  I'm perfectly content with my life and how I live it.  I don't need the Bible to tell me what's moral and what's not and I do resent when the Jehovah Nitwits or some Christian group comes knocking on my door to "save" me.