Author Topic: The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.  (Read 13413 times)

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Offline Paul St. John

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2003, 12:55:00 AM »
I just wanna say that I agree with Antigen.

I have never met John outside of these forums, either.


Wait a second.. hmmm.. I've never met John inside these forums, either..

Who the fuck is John?  :lol:


PAUL St. John
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Offline Dee Verry

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2003, 08:05:00 AM »
Dame! I was a tad angry.To Ken and Peter I am very sorry for putting your names there.Honestly you were both cool to me.I am grateful to you both for getting me out of HELL!It was like at the moment I just put everyone in the same basket.I would also like to state I have no problems to blame on Elan.My life is fine and happy.I have no problems.I have an Issue with sick people running programs that are abusive to children and in sharing some of my shit I was effected in the moment.I was to busy feeling safe at 6,I don't remember? oh never mind.I just came here today to say my anger was deep and I should have not put Ken or Peter in with the rest.At Elan 6.I have no Issues.Elan as a hole should have been shut down.I am happy for you that your stay with marty was a pleasent one ,maybe things do change.I had no right to put you down.

[ This Message was edited by: Dee Verry on 2003-10-24 05:13 ]
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Offline Antigen

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2003, 10:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-23 21:55:00, Paul St. John wrote:

"



I just wanna say that I agree with Antigen.



I have never met John outside of these forums, either.





Wait a second.. hmmm.. I've never met John inside these forums, either..



Who the fuck is John?  :lol:





PAUL St. John"


Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!

Sorry `bout that, buddy. Ya'll know who I'm talking about.

What is this new loyalty? It is, above all, conformity. It is the uncritical and unquestioning acceptance of America as it is. It rejects inquiry into the race question or socialized medicine or public housing, regards as heinous any challenge to what is called the system of private enterprise, identifying that system with Americanism. It abandons evolution, repudiates the once popular concept of progress, and regards America as a finished product, perfect and complete. The concept of loyalty as conformity is a false one. It is narrow and restrictive, denies freedom of thought and conscience... What do men know of loyalty who make a mockery of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights?
http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/commager.html' target='_new'>Henry Steele Commager, 1947

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2003, 10:28:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-23 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"they learned there lessons well from the nazis,frued,skinner,, maybe even a  dash of charlie.buut ,, with no after care to keep you submerged,it aint gonna last.,,"


That seems to be where Ken comes in w/ Elan Alumni.

From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Dee Verry

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« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2003, 11:22:00 AM »
I am true to me,I was just being honest.Ken never came out sick on me either did Peter so i had no right to put them in with the others.I feel the same as I did the other day.Nothing has changed.I am not loyal to anyone.I like to keep it honest though.I never new Ken before 6 and It was peter who basical dealt with me.I am in no way invaladating anyone eles exsperence.In fact would love to read some post hey, I did it and lived through it.That was the point in posting some personal stuff.I want to hear from people.I want this and other programs exsposed for what they are.
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Offline Dee Verry

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« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2003, 11:39:00 AM »
Hey Art, there is no way its gone for them,hey I was just tring to sleep my life away and wow I was hit with one hell of a memorie.I did not want it,it just was there and my heart goes out to you matt.Can I stuff Elan away yes I am very good at it but, as you can see it will come up and bite me right in the ass.This time for me ,I am going to deal with every part of that sick so called helpful school.It only hurts for while but I intend to be free of that place.I already have faced alot of my fears right here and I feel even physical better Art.Weeks ago I needed help getting out of bed.This week I am taking walks and feel so good to be pain free.So wonder whats up with that? hey I am in heaven to be with out physical pain. peace to you.

[ This Message was edited by: Dee Verry on 2003-10-24 08:45 ]
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Offline Antigen

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2003, 03:07:00 PM »
It seems to me that Ken and other Elan apologists go to great lengths to prevent recent graduates from getting to know older graduates too well. The rule seems to be that it's OK to talk about the differences between then and now, between Poland Springs and other houses. But whenever a conversation wanders into the area of those things that have remained consistent over the years and that cross-over to other Synanon based programs, some asshole always comes along and tries to set us all against one another.

Regardless, I'm very interested in the topic. Have been for a number of years and no amount of appapleptic fits on the part of people who don't want anyone else to talk about it will likely quell my interest.

Fuck anyone who tries to tell you what you should or shouldn't read or think or who you may or may not talk to. We're all grown ups here.

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Criteria for Thought Reform
Return to North Korea / Tangled Web home
Any ideology -- that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions about men and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world -- may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But this is most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic in their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement becomes little more than an exclusive cult.

Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats.

(a brief outline)

MILIEU CONTROL
The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and psychologically--for one to leave Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them" Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)

MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)
Extensive personal manipulation Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated Totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative The "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment) The individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others The leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members Legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"

THE DEMAND FOR PURITY
The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) One must continually change or conform to the group "norm" Tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences Once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality The radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming

CONFESSION
Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself Sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change Is an act of symbolic self-surrender Makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility A person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss Often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position) "The more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you"

SACRED SCIENCE
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence Questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited A reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine Offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology

LOADING THE LANGUAGE
The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers) Repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon "The language of non-thought" Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase

DOCTRINE OVER PERSON
Every issue in one's life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it The pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly The underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth" The experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt One is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil When doubt arises, conflicts become intense

DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE
Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist "Being verses nothingness" Impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed One outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group Fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them The group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc.

Excerpted from: Thought Reform And The Psychology of Totalism, Chapter 22, (Chapel Hill, 1989) & The Future of Immortality, Chapter 155 (New York 1987).

Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offline Anonymous

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2003, 07:21:00 PM »
Art shut the fuck up,he does not claim anything of the sort,you twist it.It is a place for grads to say hi..................................hows life today.heal deal what dude????????//are you fucking talking about? Alumni is a cool chat room we are not for Elan by any means and Art you no that.either have a drink or go to a meeting ok,your dry drunk shit is getting old
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Offline Anonymous

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The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2003, 07:26:00 PM »
The fucking ??????????????????????
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2008, 08:31:26 PM »
If you read this thread ,,,some of Dianes postings and thoughts about what what went on in elan . I remember her very well a really nice person who was really worked over,,,, but any way if you read her postings you will notice that at one point some one posts that Dave Elder is dead and and that she should remember the good things and some stuff about if they(the poster) only remembered the bad they would not see all the insight .

I also want to add that I don't believe anyone was manipulating Diane on this board .It was simply Diane remembering horrible abuse that happened to her and other people while we were there. It is obvious that the poster was the one trying to manipulate Diane to calm down and stop exposing elan's dirty sadistic secrets.

I also remember Jenifer S. being wrapped up in a sheet and dropped in the lake. I remember Jenefer being brutalized in the boxing ring .I remember Jenefer and another girl Mary O' having electric sauce poured over them and then made to lie on the dining room floor wrapped up like mummies with all that electric sauce ,,,a human burritos if you will .Oh the violent sadistic really physically hurtful as well as can you imagine the emotional damage done to these people.

I also think that the style of Dianes posting  is remarkable in the way she is recounting the trauma she suffered and witnessed as she is remembering it . It is very gripping and I wish Diane well where ever she is.

Another thing I have noticed that it appears that former residents had directors that they thought were cool or thought that they treated them nice . you know that is probably true a subjectivee experience .and who knows it might have been geared that way by elan .My point is that just because you liked a certain director or staff member (which is fine ) does't in no way mean that they weren't brutally overseeing the chronic abuse of another resident.

Parents please do not send your children to elan ,,, what is posted here by Diane is abuse that elan has gotten away with in the past ,,,what is there to keep it from happening again? ,,,I remember an interview where one of the directors jeffery gottlieb is quoted as saying that they don't do it like that anymore, see he admits it and smiles because he knows that elan and his fellow directors have gotten away with the abuse that Diane has posted here and this is just a small taste of what went on back in those days that "they don't do it like that anymore",,, Please if you love your children  don't send your children to elan. 
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Offline java.gurl

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Re: The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2008, 12:09:32 AM »
Quote from: "Dee Verry"
Guess I had a contract.Lorretta. I often think about you.Thank you for frezzing a piece of my birthday cake.That night coming back from hell.That lock up was sooooooo beyond sick and twisted,thought David was really going to kill me, or put me up stairs were he let me peek in.You want to be in there Verry?I said no!Standing there covered in wet cloths and shaving cream and the tampons all haning in my face.I remember a kid tied to the poll in his underware and the smell was awful.The cake was tasty and I was at ease to back in poland and far away from bear moutain.wow you would have gottenKILLED for that.hope your well and happy I am.



What year did all of this happen? They put tampons on you & you had to "knock" on the 14th tampon? they covered them in blood? someone pissed on you in a GM? u had to wear booty shorts & a fake gun & shake your ass around the dining room? why? how old were you?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2008, 08:08:45 PM »
I remember Loretta J. She ws a very kind person.

I witnessed the crown of tampons,,, they were dipped in ketchup to simulate blood. Some learning experience. I wonder what Diane was suppose to learn ,,, possibly that there were some very sick people that worked at elan and that elan was a very unfortunate place for anyone to find themselves in espcially back in those days.

No I think they were trying to break her spirit,,,create intense fear,,,incredible sense of worthlessness and hopelessness,,, I don't know why those men (directors) were so threatened of her ,,,not quite  five feet tall and very thin...

Java this happened in late summer of 1974.  I do not think  Diane posts anywhere any more. I believe that she was intimadated by people who did not want her to continue posting elans shameful abuses that we witnessed. I hope that she is doing well and will get back in touch.
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Offline Antigen

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Re: The abuse you brought on us,the shame is yours.
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2008, 02:37:48 AM »
Hey dood! How's it goin?

Check it out. I ran into a dude who went through a state ordered program up here called Abraxix. Said he was a shingle for 22 months.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes