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Messages - GregFL

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Pass the popcorn Nihlantic.  I can't wait for the vid either.

Gawd this so reminds me of our first protest of (not so) SAFE so many years ago.  I sure wish I could have been there with you guys.  Keep up the good work, and keep talking to those parents.

When we went to SAFE, I spoke at length with some of the parents and just hearing the word cult and safe in the same breath opened some of their eyes. We also got threatened and had a very very intense 5-0 session.  I left there feeling exhilirated.

You guys are doing great work!

The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Is alcoholism REALLY genetic?
« on: November 13, 2007, 09:06:05 AM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
My 'rents are convinced so.

My dad is alcoholic.

I'm a fucking snob who goes for high priced microbrews or imported trappist belgians...

Domestic belgian micros are even better!

But to answer your question.... in my opinion NO.  Alcoholism is not genetic. What may be genetic is the personality that tends to act compulsive and hence, compulsively drink or compulsively abuse substances.  But in order to buy into the 'alcoholism is genetic' nonsense, one must also buy into the lie that it is a disease.  It is not.  Alcoholism, and all isms for that matter, are only diseases so the treatment industry and insurance companies can figure out a way to bill for them and also so steppers can pass the buck.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Video.
« on: November 06, 2007, 08:08:42 AM »
Quote from: ""wdtony""
Just passing on this video.

Thanks Tony. That video has been floating around fornits for about 5 years. Originally I found it on a video website way before Youtube sprang up and for some time Ginger had it posted on the front page. Quite a while back i was corresponding with the director of SAFE and I sent it to him and asked him to watch it and comment. He told me it was 'interesting'.  


The Seed Discussion Forum / Cool seed advertisement
« on: November 03, 2007, 05:20:29 PM »

 It wasn't 3xaseedling, but rather  Danielremembers.   My apologies.

I didn't associate the name of the person properly with the screen name. My apologies.  Danielremembers, please tell us what you can about the ad. Thanks again for sending it to me!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Cool seed advertisement
« on: November 02, 2007, 11:17:07 AM »
another point that I have made before is made right in the beginning..

"Art Barker, president and founder of the seed, was previously involved in a 14 year period working with alcoholics, young narcotic addicts, and juvenile delnquents on an invidiviual basis".

Now, anyone who has read this forum knows I have repeatedly said this was Art's claim when I was there, but for some reason no one else seems to remember .  I do.  Now, lo and behold we have it, in print, from an ad straight from the Seed.

BUT I F'N can't get a straight response (no pun intended) as TO WHERE ART WORKED WITH JUVENILES PRIOR TO THE SEED for 14 YEARS!!

Will someone step forward and answer this basic, fundamental question?  Certainly he told someone *WHERE* he learned these techniques, and certainly that someone can now step forward and solve this riddle.


The Seed Discussion Forum / Cool seed advertisement
« on: November 02, 2007, 11:04:12 AM »
Check out this link to a full page "seed ad" found and sent to us by 3xaseedling!  I am not sure what magazine or newspaper this ran in but there are some interesting things in it that clear up some of our online debates in this forum.

I am going to invite her to tell us everything she knows about the ad but a couple of points I am going to make..

1) Art Barker '  "doctorate in social sciences" was never used to garner respect or used otherwise  used  for legitimacy.  NOT.  His  "doctorate" from "ft Lauderdale University", a questionable facility that was never authorized to issue doctorate degrees  is bragged up right there in the ad.

2) Art Barkers rejection of public funds in 1974. This was right when the seed started dying as those of us there at the time can attest.  The letter signed by Art Barker was apparently written by someone with legal training and not by Art's hand.  Anyone think I am wrong here?

3) The seed of hope docudrama is mentioned and WE STILL DON"T HAVE A COPY OF IT!  DOOH! (homer simpson voice)  However, we have a trail as it mentioned who produced it...WTVJ channel 4 miami. Anyone down there willing to do some leg work and find these archives and retrieve a copy?   if so I will make copies available to interested parties at my expense for those who have participated in this forum.

any other points of interest worth discussing here?

A big thanks to 3xaseedling!

Last night in Tampa Jimmy Buffet played at the ford Ampitheatre.  It was a typical Jb concert, that is..sold out with people dressed in tropical attire and having a blast.  Anyway, before the concert much to the crowds surprise  out walks Governor Charlie Crist to introduce Jimmy Buffet.

Amid the boos , hisses, and smattering of applause as Governor Crist was trying to introduce JB, I heard the following cat call clear as a whistle...

"hey Charlie...THE SEED LOVES YOU"

hahahahah.  Isn't life funny?

The Seed Discussion Forum / I heard ART retired
« on: October 26, 2007, 04:52:45 PM »
Nope. But, what were the names of the people in charge?

The Seed Discussion Forum / Fred Francis reports...
« on: August 17, 2007, 04:35:44 PM »
Just you eh? Nice hearing from you.

 Any word on the health of Art Barker?

The Seed Discussion Forum / Fred Francis reports...
« on: August 17, 2007, 03:03:45 PM »
TCK, if you are new here, welcome. If you are not, welcome back.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Fred Francis reports...
« on: August 11, 2007, 11:29:22 PM »
Well, abused, neglected, truant, broken family..all of us ended up in the seed.  Rape and abuse before the seed unfortunately seemed to be fairly common, as it is in society at large. The amount of children in the seed with this problem seemed to be much higher because of course, we were the troubled kids.

What was not normal is to lock up these rape/molestation victims in 'treatment' where they had to blame themselves for all the bad that happened in their past/where they had to say they were slutty if they were girls, and where no treatment was ever given, not even a nod, for their pre-program abuse.  What they got instead was more abuse.

I am sorry this happened to you 3X.  thank goodness it happened so long ago and you are now old enough to understand that it was them that were wrong, not you.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Still?
« on: August 09, 2007, 09:56:51 AM »

They would be the children and parents  from Straight, The Seed, Safe, growing together and the various teen help programs that are synanon based, the Authors writing books, the lawyers who have represented us, The newspaper editors, Montel Williams, Periodicals like 'high times' and "these are new times" that picked the story up then and now, People writing these stories, people participating in blogs thruout the net, People public speaking on their experiences, the many parents  who have read these forums and come away going " kid has problems...but no way am I putting him/her in a program like that".  The everyday people who respond to articles, blogs and these forums with comments like "is that really going on in America..who is speaking for these children?"

It has been a collective effort with the result being a net loss of acceptance of these places in The hearts of the american people.  Sure, these places still exist and people still cheer when Maury brings out a 30 year old muscled man  to red-faced scream and yell in the face of a frightened 13 year old,but changes like this..changes ingrained in the social fabric of a nation raised on the drug war and help at any cost, and  who have never known anything but 'the fight', will only come as we tell our story and continue to encourage others to do the same.

So, these forums really have several functions as I see it.

1) allow people who were in these programs a way to explore what happened to them  free from the distortions and emotions of talking to family about it, and free from the shame of publicly admitting their incarceration in a 'drug rehab' to their friends in real life and all the negative assumptions that come with that, thereby offering a protected place to discuss this very emotional and strange thing that happened to us as children and to come to terms with what it means to have been in a treatment cult.

2)  Allow an environment where debate can occur (at least here on the Seed forum) without the threat of extreme personal attacks.  This way, we can all adjust our emotionally held preconceptions of what occurred without being shouted down.  We all need to.  No matter what side of the issues you come down on, it is inevitable that you have interjected your own 'stuff' into your memory as this is human nature.  This alone allows the truth to bubble to the surface and is evident to anyone who has read thru this forum.

3)  a resource for the media.  An important part of telling a story is to have others with more power tell it for you.   As such, the fornits and related websites have been used to write books, for references on blogs, on television, and hopefully major print and video to come.

4)  finally, and perhaps most dear to me, to provide a place where people who have carried collateral damage; self worth issues, anger, alienation, feelings of hoplessness, inappropriate socialization (coming down on someone lately? Told anyone your 'feelings' within 5 minutes of meeting them..much to their horror?),  post tramatic stress, loss of family ties, whatever... can work thru their problems and emerge healthier and happier

There are more positive results.  The only negative result I have seen is some petty bickering, some people who have mental problems and become obsessed and stuck back there and blame all their current problems on what happened in the Seed/straight/pickyourprogram.   But all in all, I am very happy and proud of the efforts and people who have created and contributed even just one word to these forums.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / without futher a due
« on: August 09, 2007, 09:26:57 AM »
Thank you for the heart felt effort and for using your talent to inform others of this terrible thing we all went thru.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Strangest letter I ever got
« on: August 08, 2007, 05:48:26 PM »
I have a pretty good idea who may have sent that

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