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Messages - OKB4RMA

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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / ridikkulus
« on: March 21, 2006, 08:43:00 PM »
OK...looks like the topic is movies now...and I'm gonna do my damndest not to read any HP parts of the don't read the books but I have to admit that the first 3 movie installments were *actually* pretty damn don't spoil the later ones for me Castle :silly:  I wonder if they're gonna show 'Brokeback Mountain' some Sunday night at Carlbrook?

The best movie ever conned in by a student recommendation unbeknownst to staff members...'The Brother From Another Planet'

That tape spent even less time in the VCR   :rofl:

Yup...CalArts does have a stellar reputation from what I hear.

Pepperdine...sheeeeeit...that's about the sweetest location for a university campus if there ever was one...roll down the lawn and you're at Malibu Beach...can't say most people's L.A. experience is as nice as yours.

I know that USC has some really incredible departments also...but could you imagine what it must be like when somebody from out of town shows up and actually sees the surrounding neighborhoods? :eek:

and I was only teasing about the service industry jobs for the students...although not for the *actors*...hahaha

On 2006-03-19 11:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

LA and the Valley are both dirty pieces of shit full of dumbshit people and absolutely terrible drivers. Can't wait to finish school and get out of this shithole.

Yes...true true...I always chuckle to myself when people move here...especially for school...thinking beforehand of some sort of "California Dream" know...the beach...Baywatch...all that other B.S....only to find out that it *really* does suck pretty bad here...but thanks for stopping by anyways because we are always looking for students and/or aspiring actors to fill our service jobs. :rofl:

4 here's the skinny on it all...cause I'm sure that sommmmmeee of you are "newbies" to the greater Los Angeles area ::bandit::

ahhhh....Christmas...anyhow...speaking of Christmas at RMA I saw something pretty funny today.  An old RMA friend brought over a whole pile of RMA correspondence and billings that he had aquired from a former parent of a student who was there circa 1995.

Now I'm not quite sure what the "billing" practies were when we were students in the previous Dad still has all of the bills tucked away so I'll have to take a look at them...however....

Did you guys know that they billed the parents separately and specifically for "Christmas/Secret Santa"?

The charge...$20

Anybody curious to know about any of the other charges?

I'm not angry nor pissed...I'm actually having a pretty good laugh about it all.

On 2006-03-14 15:22:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

Later in the program, they finally allowed us to listen to fleetwood mac, too, which was a relief, compared to the other crap.

We only got the Fleetwood Mac "sans" Stevie Nicks
not to mention Crosby Stills & Nash minus anything with Neil Young.

Plus all of the other lame aformentioned music.

At least...there was one song that Fleetwood Mac played that had a bass riff in it that sounded EXACTLY like the beginning of Dead Kennedies "Police Truck"...those of us "in the know" always exchanged "looks" at that point in the song.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: March 11, 2006, 12:46:00 AM »
On 2006-03-10 21:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OKB4, do you have a child or are you still a child?  I assume you are male.  The day, if it comes, that your son is violent towards your wife and young daughter you may remember this place.  Just try standing in the shoes of ordianry people that loved their kid and something went horribly wrong.  We aren't bad people and our kid thanks us for the intervention we provided.  That's all I have to offer.  "

First...I'm not calling you bad parents...I don't troll these threads so that I can "harass" parents for "not raising their children right" blah blah blah.  I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt.  However...I'm really not sure that you are *fully* aware of what goes on in the programs.

No...I am not a parent...and I don't play one on T.V. either...but I am hardly a child.  I graduated from Mr. Braces program back in the mid 80's and feel that I am qualified to make comments on the therapeutic structure of the program until somebody gives me a straight answer as to how things are being run now.

here is a post I just made regarding just a *small* part of my horribly traumatic "truth propheet" I hope that you can understand my concerns regarding this type of therapy and that you can see where it can be misused.  It took me 20+/- years for me to finally tell my dad what *really* went on in the workshops other than the basic canned generalizations of the program. ... =20#180258

and please remember...I am not bashing you as parents...I understand the situations that many of you can be in...however...I am opposed to the therapy used in these programs.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Current state of BCA
« on: March 11, 2006, 12:28:00 AM »
As a 20 year graduate of RMA, I too will attest to the fact that the propheets are extremely damaging as Former Cedu Therapist states.

If your son has attended his "truth" propheet...I assume that he has if you are already heading up there for a visit...ask him the manner in which they get the kids to cop out to their "dirt"...primarily sexual dirt because this is the dirt that is dredged up time and time again throughout the remainder of the program to further beat the kid down to prepare him for the "rebuilding process".

This tearing down was a consistant throughout the entire program which would leave one to think..."when does the tearing down stop and when do they focus 100% on the growth aspect?

never...the tearing down is a continual process.

As hard as this is to goes...I was manipulated (basically screamed at until I gave a false admission) into admitting...and ultimately believing that my sister and I had fooled around as children.  I felt ashamed to be around my sister for years yet when I finally approached her to talk about it years later, she said " was *my brother* that had and that I actually tried to protect her from him"

I started to remember the times that I had intervened when they were in a room together...yet to this day...I still carry around the baggage of "abusing my sister" because I was forced to tell that contrived story over and over and over.

My sister is ready willing and able to welcome me back into her life and has been for many years.  I on the other hand still have the RMA thinking in my head.

I could go on and on about propheets...but my bottom line opinion is that they are BAD and can be harmful later in life.

You will however see people that have come out of the propheets praising the experience.  This is primarily due to the fact that they started the propheet at 10:00 at night and keep you up all night...basically sleep deprivation...and we all know what we can be coerced into saying when that is the case.

Sure...instead of being in Raps the Friday afternoon before...we got to take a 3 hour nap...but in all my time at RMA none of my peer group actually took naps...we were all too nervous about what was going to happen in the propheet that night.

They will also say that the students are given a nap during the propheet.  I though so for the 7 propheets I had sat in before I supported a truth propheet.  During my second "Truth"...the one I supported in...when naptime came around...I was pretty tired myself and was looking forward to it.  That is when I was instructed to just drink a bunch of coffee in the "break room" because we would be waking the kids up in about 1/2 hour and that had I taken a nap that I would be too tired and they needed me to be "there".  So...basically...the naps were soon as all the kids had fallen was time to wake them up.  There were no clocks...the windows were all boarded up so no light entered the the kids really had no idea that they hadn't actually slept but were just being prolonged in their sleep deprived state.

sorry for the long post but if you think that your kid is a one size fits all kind of kid (which I don't by the way) then their faulty one size fits all therapy will be perfect.  Oh...and for further reference, it seems that all of the programs are using the same therapeutic models and the same seminars...they may change an exercise or two but they are in essence the same "workshops".

Try starting a thread that says "tell me the ugly side of workshops" and then disregard the answers that are from people praising them because as you can see in my case...they hurt alot more than helped.

The workshops are the essence of the program.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: March 10, 2006, 11:44:00 PM »
Well...I'm gonna weigh in on the other side of the topic and say that I would still be hesitant to send a child to a program that is run in a similar manner to the one that I was in...and by the same people no less.  I can only assume that the same techniques are used and due to the fact that none of the Pro-Carlbrook group has chosen to answer questions regarding the workshops just goes to show that this program...just like all the others that use the same M.O....seems to have something to hide.

Hey...what is it to you?  So you moved on...does that mean that everybody should move on in the same carbon copy way?  Yes...I have read some angry stuff on the site yet I have also read just as much where people are trying to discuss things that affected them and share that their experience there was very troubling only to be told to "Suck it up!"

Why do you feel the need to jump in here and blanketly chastise everybody here.  Do you know everybodies story at RMA?  This isn't one of those websites where "if you don't have something nice to say...keep your mouth shut" so you will see a lot of noise...there are some very valid points made by people however.

We don't agree with the basic premise of the programs here, which is the standard one size fits all therapy.  We feel that the workshops and raps are counterproductive to a students well being and so called "emotional growth".  You may feel like RMA was a good place for you, but not everybody entered under the same circumstances nor for the same reasons as you did.

So...basically...please try to accept that some of us are working things out the way we feel helps us best.  You state that it was 20 years ago...but from what I know about therapy...some issues can be discussed and dealt with for a lifetime...some people are able to easily move on from traumatic experiences...some can't.

No...really...I got an education there...

I'll prove it to you...

just give me a bowsaw, sledge & wedge,  maul, hatchet, wheel barrow, posthole digger, hammer, chisel, shovel, pulaski, drawknife and a weed whacker (all manual please)...and don't forget my safety glasses.

then...point me to the biggest piles of manure to be shoveled, logs to be cut/split/peeled, fields to be cleared, hole to be dug...

I'm telling ya...I'll prove it to'll see...they edjumacated me reeeal good!

On 2006-03-06 18:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"When I went to RMA, my parents demanded that I be in classes full time.  While other kids went off to chop wood, I went to classes.

Early on one of the math teachers took ill and I was  asked, by my 5 fellow students, if I could teach them the material since I was widely regarded as being well ahead of my peers.

So I taught them Algebra 1 and Geometry for 8 weeks.  I don't think the teacher ever returned.  

Eventually I was asked to continue teaching, and I ended up teaching Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and Trig to the students there.  They did not offer Physics, even though Will Vernard should have been qualified I think.  

The point of this was that the school knew it had no teachers capable of teaching math, much less science, as most were not all that bright to begin with.  Many people can complete courses without ever retaining the information for later use.  As such, though someone attended college and may have received a degree, they might be unqualified or incapable of teaching others what they learned.

RMA and the other schools seemed to be this way.  Many of the classes had names that reflected hobbies more than actual courses.  I am one of the few people to this day that can say I took Basket Weaving in school.  

Other courses were called Photography in Nature.  Basically taking pictures of plants, leaves or whatever else we found.  Very relaxing class, but hardly prep-work for attending a college.  Animal Husbandry, which was nothing more than being able to identify what parts of the cow went with what cuts of meat at the grocery store.  Hard to impress a college administrator with that kind of knowledge.  They should have had video game playing and called it Computer Theory or Computer Strategy and Simulation.  

Most states back then required 200-220 units to graduated and receive a diploma.  Somehow, with Idaho having the same requirements, I graduated with more than 900 units, because these schools consider everything you do to be worth credits.  So many of those credits came in the form of Home Economics.  By the time you were halfway through the program, you often had worked in the kitchen, and that counts as credits for graduation.  Pretty much everything we did counted.  The diploma, for most of us, was not worth the paper it was written on.

I had it easy.  Learning came naturally to me and I was far ahead in school before I arrived and could have taken the GED when I was 10 years old.  But I watched so many students, who had at least been getting a normal education back home -equal to their learning levels- reduced to incompetent, uneducated teens as they "graduated" from the program, totally unequipped to handle college or anything requiring any semblance of an education.

But the staff would comment that we were not there to get educated, because that was not our problem.  There were far more important things for us to be working on.  I only attended classes often because my parents bugged the school often, asking endless questions about my academics.  Because, ultimately, that was all they cared about.  I could have been a mass murderer, but my parents would have just said, "uh huh, but how are your grades?"  Because to them, good grades, meant good kid.

But what I was saying above, about how the staff made it "ok" for us not to get a good education, was the point of this post.  They knew these schools did not have the staff or licensed teachers to provide a real education.  It was not really a part of their Master Plan.  The reason for this might be the same reason why dictatorships and Communist countries limit interaction with the outside world to their subjects.  Education and free communication breed free thinkers.  The last thing RMA and CEDU wanted for us, was to have us thinking for ourselves.  Asking questions.  Questioning what was going on.

And the reason they kept communication with the parents vague and uninformative, was for the very same reason.  And they were well practiced at this tactic and very good at it.  But based on what the two parents above demonstrated, not always perfect as some parents were able to figure it out for themselves.

It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children.  And like the two posters above, when a parents gets an inkling that something is amiss, that their child may be in danger, action is taken.  Right or wrong.  We should be using this site to inform parents, teach them, educate them, so this stuff doesn't continue.  Because ultimately, as the customers, only they can boycott and shutdown these places by not sending their kids there.  What we should not be doing, is just using this as a place to rant back and fourth amongst ourselves on trivial issues.  

Whether Roy was great or not is not something I came to this site to argue about.  I come here to interact with former students and validate for myself, verify for myself that what I experienced was experienced by others and that I am not insane for thinking there was something wrong with these schools.  For thinking they did something to us, against our will and that we were harmed by it.  


Sorry for quoting such a long post but I feel that this is an important one.

I could have written this post myself other than the fact that my parents just threw me into the program and I had the honor of chopping wood et al. that most students had.

I too taught my "algebra and geometry" was the only math class that I have recollection taking...I mean teaching.  If I remember correctly Will Vernard WAS our teacher (It might have been Bob though)...and he was also quite adept at math...however, most of the other students were struggling and Will...athough a very competent mathematician himself, was not as competent when it came to actually teaching the stuff.  He had a tough time "simplifying" things so that the students could understand better.  I saw where I could be of help the first day of class and offered to show the students some simple algebra.  Will directed me to the chalkboard and handed me the chalk. I went on to explain things so that the students could get a basic grasp of what algebra actually was...they were having a tough time grasping the concept of a variable and for some reason, I was able to help them better than Will.

To make a long story short...I got frustrated also as in MY mind...I was there to learn...not to play "teacher" to students that were eons behind me academically (I was 17 and had 13 year olds in the class) so basically after the first two classes we all just sat around and listened to the RMA designated teacher tell his pre RMA "war stories".

please note that I'm not sure if it was Will or Bob that was teaching...but I'm pretty sure it was Will.

I still think I got an A in the class...pretty pathetic.

but it's really not the academics that I have a beef is the basic premise of the so called "therapy" and the structure of the program itself.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: March 06, 2006, 07:23:00 PM »
Not as an impressive list as I would have expected given the touts of many of the parents...but not unimpressive either.

It seems that the kids that went on to finish high school after Carlbrook did a little better than the ones that were accepted straight out of Carlbrook...i.e. U of P vs Penn St.

That does clear up a few of my academic concerns with Carlbrook vs RMA.

One thing that I certainly don't buy however is the "Scholarship" claim to fame that is listed on Carlbrooks site...I'm not saying it is false...just questionable.

I also find it interesting that there seems to be a higher matriculation rate for the "lesser" universities than for those with better national reputations.

now...If somebody could refer to my questions about the Seminars.  I'm really not looking for a parents answer to this (no offense Karen) as the parents really don't know the "play by play" as I had mentioned before concerning the workshops.  Needless to took me almost 20 years to finally tell my Dad the "play by play" and he was pretty shocked.

I guess that this is a question that Tim's gonna have to come out from behind the curtain and answer...but from what I have been told (in so many words)...he is far too busy to care about his former students and answer their questions.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: March 06, 2006, 06:42:00 PM »
In all reality...I think that we'll never get direct answers...even from direct least that seems to be my experience.

I'm not going to engage anybody in long winded drawn out arguments and when I pose a question...and get a non answer (such as Ted's posting to my last question)...I can already see that trying to reason...or have intelligent discourse without being replied to in a condescending manner is futile.  So...if you don't know the answer (Ted)...don't reply to my question.

Now...on to my next question.

I'm sending this one your way Karen

You state that many kids go back to drugs and that many kids go onto prestigious universities.

1. Could you please back that up with the supporting statistics.

2. Could you provide me with a list of universities (prestigious ones) that have accepted Carlbrook Grads.  I don't want students names as I would like to respect their privacy, but with a list of these institutions of higher education, it would be easy to call the admissions departments of said schools and verify how many...if in fact any...Carlbrook grads are currently attending.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: March 06, 2006, 12:19:00 AM »
Please compare and contrast the workshops at Carlbrook vs the workshops at RMA. I felt that the workshops at RMA were very traumatic experiences.

I would prefer not to hear generic "nothing in life is easy" answers. I would prefer to hear details regarding the specific exercises that are part of the workshops.

To make things more open and focused I would like to hear more about whatever workshop would be similar to our "Truth Propheet". I assume that that would be the first workshop's "topic" at Carlbrook also. Basically...a play by play account of the whole propheet/workshop would be nice.

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