Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - cleveland

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 28
The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: This forum, Now and then
« on: February 12, 2015, 04:05:56 PM »
Thank you, Greg. I am glad your daughter is better.

I am so so so glad you started this site, even though it's become a pretty toxic site in the past few years. Before that happened, I connected with a lot of past members, made piece with my own past, and learned so much from posting and reading others' posts. It was an amazing experience for me some years ago, I was very active. Now I check it rarely, but I am glad this posting was right at the top.

Open Free for All / Re: New Forum Policies
« on: March 29, 2010, 08:38:27 AM »
No, you must have me confused with someone else. I try to be respectful of all, as this forum really opened up a window on my past for me and I am grateful.

Open Free for All / Re: New Forum Policies
« on: March 22, 2010, 04:35:18 PM »
I haven't posted on this site for over a year because every time I checked it out, it was full of ridiculous garbage posts. Glad you have a policy and I hope it helps.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: The impact of this forum
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:10:13 AM »
Good to hear all of these responses, yeah and nay.

As usual, I am in the middle!

As far as being an older dad, yeah, it's pretty awesome. Another Seed grad, who I contacted thru this forum, told me that she was sad that so many Seed kids didn't get the chance to be parents - especially those, like myself, who stuck around for a long time.

The other day my daughter touched my gray hair and said, "Daddy, you look like a Popa!" That's her word for grampa. Sigh...

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: The impact of this forum
« on: August 15, 2008, 03:15:44 PM »
Hey Greg, thanks for the message.

My brother is a busy guy these days, and in fact, we talk monthly, or so, but i will convey the message...

Are you enjoying being at dad at 50? Sometimes I feel guilt that i will be a decrepid old fart when my two girls, now 1 and 3, are adults...or maybe I will stay healthy well into later age. Who knows? Anyway, it's a blast, when it doesn't suck (lost sleep, freedom and downtime) but that is more than made up for in good stuff.

Yes, although I have mixed feelings about the Seed and understand the extremes of feelings on either side, I am cursed or blessed with empathy for both outlooks...good thing I am not in politics, what a flip-flopper!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: The impact of this forum
« on: August 14, 2008, 04:38:36 PM »
By the way, I just realized today is my Seed birthday - August 15, 1978.


The Seed Discussion Forum / The impact of this forum
« on: August 14, 2008, 04:25:04 PM »
I haven't posted on this site in ages, and I have visited only sporadically. Seems like sometimes it's up, sometimes down, and moving to various host locations. I don't know the details.

I had kind of had a 'been there, done that' attitude towards the site. I am turning 50, I have two children, I'm busy, and I work (ironically) about 1/2 mile from the old Cleveland Seed, so I pass it frequently and feel - nothing.

However, I have seen some of the recent posts by people who have just discovered this site, and it reminds me how powerful it is to reconnect. To have the chance to relive old memories and grievances, grind an ax or two and even realize where my original ideas were mistaken. So amazing.

The Seed remains for me a pivotal, formative, powerful experience. I still haven't decided whether it was all good or bad, and the fact is, it was both. No matter what, those memories will live with me forever, and I am sure I will still have dreams in which the Seed plays a role.

So, thanks again to Ginger and Greg and whoever else is helping them maintain this forum, in spite of whether you agree with their views or not - they are letting us air our views here, and, you know what, the truth will out.

Take care and happy discovery for any new Seed Kids that find this site.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed Article
« on: January 04, 2007, 03:19:56 PM »
See this for an interesting Seed account:

Same issue has an article on the Troubled Teen industry.

Bonus -it's in The Sun, a great magazine.

Wally G.

The Seed Discussion Forum / what art said?
« on: July 26, 2006, 05:06:02 PM »
yes, I recall a story about him waking up from a drunken stupor in his car, living with his dog as his only friend. rock bottom. then getting sober thru aa and working a bellevue helping other drunks. started the seed on his boat, turning his back on successful comedy career. first seed on andrews ave.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Hitler Youth influence?
« on: June 29, 2006, 02:38:00 PM »
Have to agree with Johnny G.

I spent a lot of time in Art's house too, and the books were mysteries, thrillers, and books about sailing - nothing esoteric.

I just read Mya Szalavitz' book too, and while I think she has some great first person accounts from Straight and other treatment centers, I don't think her Seed stuff is entirely accurate.

Obviously, Art copied a lot of the Seed's format from AA, which in turn copied from the Oxford Group and Frank Buchman's Moral Rearmament group (how come no one is interested in this? - this is the real origin of all of this stuff). Art did say he had worked at Bellvue, in NY, a notorious asylum. I never heard of any Synanon connection unless Bellvue was experimenting with these techniques.

Hitler Youth is kind of silly. Art was a veteran and fought the Nazis..."Art's Army" was meant to be a wholesome, anti-counterculture group and in that way reflected the ideals of the pre-Nazi german youth movement (Boy Scouts, similar).

So, look elsewhere. Look to the creepy Frank Buchanan, for Christ's sake!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Clocks at The Seed
« on: June 27, 2006, 10:57:00 AM »
Funny, I don't know if it wasn't allowed but I didn't have a watch as a newcomer. I can imaginge being told not to look at it even if I had one.

As an oldcomer, it was one of the first things I bought myself too. I remember Hank had a diver's watch, and Jack had a nice Casio - I think I bought myself a gold dress watch, I also remember having a water-proof digital. It was about the only piece of status jewelry a guy could wear. Scott wore (and sold) gold neclaces, but even as an oldcomer I thought that was tacky, even though Art wore one, too.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Who's worried about Social Security?
« on: June 01, 2006, 04:57:00 PM »
"should the wealth creators in our society pay for everyone else?"

That's the essence of your idea. Marx would say that the rich are "parasites who live off the labor of the working class."

Same idea, turned on it's head.

Perhaps if those who are fortunate enought to have can share with those who do not, AND those who can will work to their best ability AND no one cheats - we can have an equitable system. I think some people call in "communitarianism." But that will most likely only work for small, homogenous communities (Denmark, anyone?)

Anyway, I am just reacting to your emotional tone. Perhaps it would be better if you didn't imply that all the rich were virtuous, hard-working heroes and all the poor were lazy, scum-sucking slobs. Welfare queens and noblesse oblige. Ginger, where are you on this argument?

The Seed Discussion Forum / Who's worried about Social Security?
« on: June 01, 2006, 04:49:00 PM »
Greg, you're using some of the language of the right wing, and the social darwinists, so...

The Seed Discussion Forum / Who's worried about Social Security?
« on: May 30, 2006, 01:49:00 PM »
Jeez, Greg, I'll call you whatever you want to be called. I am just for a certain amount of pooled resources/shared benefit it society, which tends to be left wing. You are for 'to each his own,' (sounds that way to me), classically right wing. Libertarians come in different stripes, too.

So - I am aware that taxes are backed by police power, i.e., guns, and that is seizing and redistribution. What is your alternative for providing for the common good? Voluntary compliance? Or - social darwinism...

Tell me what you position is, and please refrain from the ad hominem attacks! (Just kidding, Mr. Debate!) (The Fallacy of Taunting)

Ginger - a lot of 16 y.o scare me, which is why I am not a high school teacher anymore! (also - joking! Sort of!)

Parenthetically yours...

The Seed Discussion Forum / Who's worried about Social Security?
« on: May 26, 2006, 10:58:00 AM »
Johnny G., right on! You are one fart smucker, as we used to say...

I am a former teacher so I can vouch for that. The ideal of universal public education was a one-room school house ideal in a mainly rural america, after WW I it became an idealogical training ground for assembly line workers. Now it's mainly a farce (although there are excellent teachers) the right wing would like to privitize it (and destroy it - Greg, you wouldn't want to pay for all those lazy f**kers to sit in study hall and take gym, would you?) and the left...go back to the good old days of small community school...

I don't know what scares me more, Ginger's daughter's sass or her mom's maniacal letter to the clueless school official. It's all a big waste of time in some ways.

Personally I am a left-winger so I gladly pay my taxes for universal public education, flawed as it is. I completely hated most of my first 13 years in school and was a college drop out, so I missed the good times. I then went on to teach for a decade - hardest thing I ever did - and happily left the world of school bells, study halls, cafeterias and enforced mindless routine and conformity, punctuated by meaningless rebellion.

And social security...I have worked hard all my life in mostly lower-paying 'do good' jobs and yup, Greg, I hope we can all support one-another when the day comes. Everyone is losing their health and pension benefits which used to come from the company, which they passed on to their customers anyway. It's called the Social Contract, and it is disappearing with a wimper. Oh, the times, they are a-changin'!

Here's my theory: let's all imagine that we are blameless, unborn souls waiting to be born. At birth, you are randomly assigned a family, race, intellegence, looks, athleticism, social class - your fate. Then you are to make the best of it with the other randomly-assigned souls. How will you treat each other, knowing you were just as likely to be a Calcutta begger as to be the son or daughter of a Fortune 500 magnate? Just as likely to be muslim, jew, christian or hindi? (Sidenote: great bumper sticker: "I'm a radical atheist: I will force you to not believe") What kind of social system? Greg's social darwinism? Liberal democracy? Dictatorship (hey, the trains run on time!) See, I am more of a philosopher than a policy wonk, I'll let the rest of you argue over percentages and rates.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 28