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Messages - Yael Eshet Khever

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1
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: December 07, 2010, 06:17:05 AM »
Quote from: "Abir"
Hi all,
1. Our site is "on the air" so you are more than welcome to visit, read and understand more about us, our concept, philosophy etc...so I am sure that many questions raised here previously by some members, will be more clear (we are still working on the site, some things will be added and corrections will be made in the next few days).

2. I was somewhat surprised in regards to the many speculations, comments and ideas expressed here (some of them are pure insult if i may say this) based on nothing but a homepage with a notice that "our site is coming soon".

Shaul - many of the speculation of people here are based on fear that your program will use the exact same false-marketing tactics and unethical practices used by many, many other programs, often with tragic results.

Quote
3. Among the many questions and points raised was one that I would like to answer: "...not against the teenager will" - That means that we will not accept to the program teenagers who do not want to participate in it! even if their parents want to! As simple as that. Just to let you know, we have in our site a mini site designed for teenagers in order to enable them to speak with us directly and get all the information they need.

That's good to hear. As you may know, many of the "teen help" programs in the industry use what is euphemistically called a "transportation / escort service" - which essentially means kidnapping the teen (with their parents' approval) out of their bed in the middle of the night, and detaining them in the program against their will without due process. I hope you will not turn to coercing teens into your program.

2
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Dating violence - Punish the victim
« on: December 06, 2010, 11:34:41 AM »
Quote
Finally in November 2005, her parents intervened and shipped her to a wilderness program in Utah called Passages to Recovery, where Bullock was forced to deal with her destructive behavior.

Her boyfriend abuses her, but she's the one with the "destructive behavior"?
Being that he's the violent jerk, why wasn't the boyfriend separated from his family and familiar environment, and sent away for treatment?
Sounds like he needs it.

(Note: yes, I know relationship abuse victims also need treatment to learn how to avoid getting into similar situations in the future. But that's no reason to separate a teenage girl from her family, or send her to a wilderness program-- especially considering the track record of wilderness programs in the area of child abuse, neglect, and death).

3
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 15, 2010, 11:09:14 AM »
Einat Tzuk is the HR/training director of a high tech company. She also seems to be very involved in her company's social contribution efforts-- I came across an article about her presenting gifts to talented teachers at a high school, and another about her involvement in donating to/funding programs to assist students at a different school. This could be nothing but plain philanthropy, or it could be something more sinister-- I don't have enough info to know.

Ursus -
I agree that there's a lot of connection between the "life coaching" trend and LGAT's, the Troubled Teens industry, etc. One of the effects of the "coaching" trend is the promotion of non-proved, possibly unsafe methods as a replacement for proper therapy-- which is turn opens the door to other types of unproved, unsafe "therapy". I wonder how much of LGAT techniques are the Abirs combining into these seminars. I'll try to see if there is any info available. The large-group setting is definitely a red flag.

The Human Potential Movement was the first public promotion of LGAT methods, but it goes further than that-- remember those American POW's who, at the end of the Korean War, renounced their own country and refused to be reptriated? And even before that, there was Mao, who developed and refined these methods and most probably taught them to the Koreans. Like that old Rocky Mountain News article said, in the US, these methods took on a new American twist: they make money. And that makes them even more dangerous, since it enables them to spread further.

4
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 14, 2010, 06:31:56 AM »
Quote from: "Oz girl"
It looks like it is designed for American Expats as it talks about getting away from the environment. It is pretty worrying that it is run by ex isralei army guys.

That's the one thing that doesn't concern me. Our military culture does not include the whole screaming, abusive drill instructor shit-- there are authority figures, but things are different because the culture is different. Joining the military here is like going to college in the US-- going to a local trade school, or your local State U, or Yale, says something about your background, intelligence, etc. Same w/ military units. Back in grades 11-12, everybody's talking about what units are you going for, what tests have been invited for, how to get into X or Y, etc. You can make some assumptions about who you're dealing with based on the units they come from. People from top combat units are, normally, high quality, smart, motivated, hardworking people who usually come from strong socioeconomic background. People who end up in the top computer units are some of the most talents computer types in the country (which is why hi-tech companies here jump all over these guys the moment they're out). People who end up in ordinance are usually not too smart, and it can be safely assumed they're not too motivated either. Etc.

High quality people from the top combat units are usually very socially aware, which is why you can find many opf them volunteering in various project, whether it is w/ disabled people, children in need, or refugees. That's the type of people we're dealing w/ here-- it's just that they mistakenly assume that that's what they're getting into, since they're not aware about "brat camps".

Quote
I agree with shady acres that political or philosophical disagreement is a big factor. particularly it seems with religious programs that view god as the only answer. Given that there only seem to be christian schools for the religious market maybe these guys are targeting the orthodox or fundamentalist Jewish crowd?

I haven't seen any evidence of that in their website. Not a single reference to religion, mitzvot, modesty or kashrut. Looks to me like they're going for the average American yuppie.

5
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 14, 2010, 06:21:22 AM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
So why not? Israel sounds like the perfect place for a bratty American teenager. I mean any parent who is considering sending their kid to a program is already fringing on complete stupidity. Maybe that's what they are banking on. Do they take any camping trips on the Afghan/Pakistani border? How about RPG training?

I am always one for conspiracy theories, how about this one. They are going to use the tried and true TTI methods of brainwashing to install terrorist sleepers in the United States. And, they are going to have dumbass American yuppies pay for it all. How fantastically ironic would that be?

Part of their one state solution, maybe?  It is significant, I think, that the differences that cause parents to put their kids into these places in the U.S. are often political in nature.  Marijuana legalization, Teen rights, Gay rights, interracial relationships, whatever.  Another major point of conflict in these families is religious beliefs.  Israel has both of these issues in abundance.  These places are scary enough in the States, their presence in a place like Israel is, if possible, even more disturbing.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying... you mean that there might be an involvement of religious organizations in this camp? From what I've read on their site, it seems unlikely. They do not address any issue that might apply to religious client/parents-- nothing about kashrut, separation between boys and girls, modesty, etc., which means they're not aiming at that market at all.

6
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 12, 2010, 03:42:27 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Yael Eshet Khever"
Looks like they're trying to cover all bases in order to squeeze as much money from the "coaching" trend.
Yep. That'd be my bet also. They would also appear to be, however, super-focused on anti-drug hysteria. I'm not sure if that's simply the way the current social climate is in Israel these days, and whether the Abirs are merely capitalizing on it, or whether they are themselves ideologically suffused as well.

To me, it just looks as if they're going for the standard "teen issues" thing. As far as I can tell, the current "devil" is the net and social networks. I find it strange that they're targeting nargilot in their "drugs and alcohol" workshop... nargilot can be used for smoking hashish, which is why it's illegal to sell them to minors, but people smoke them on the beach, in pubs, etc. They're generally acceptable.

Quote from: "Yael Eshet Khever"
Their other website presents them as focusing on divorce mediation.
Link?[/quote]

http://www.site.tiktech.net/websites/gishor/1768.asp (in Hebrew). When you google them (in Hebrew, at least), almost all results connect them to divorce mediation.


I wonder what inspired them to venture into the "brat camp" industry, though... they look like the type who are on the look out for a new market. It's strange for them to invest money and time in opening such a camp-- the main market, the US, is still in difficult times financially, and even without the financial problems, most Americans are convinced this entire country's a war zone and would not be too keen on sending their kids here. Targeting Israeli kids as clients would get the welfare services to snoop around the place sooner or later. So, why here, and why now?

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 12, 2010, 11:08:40 AM »
The Hebrew version of the site says the same as the English one. Looks like they're trying to cover all bases in order to squeeze as much money from the "coaching" trend. Their other website presents them as focusing on divorce mediation. Irit is a psychology lecturer at a local (low-ranking) college, as well as a member of the kibbutz's admission committee.

They're based up north, in the least desert-like part of the country, which makes me wonder if they're going to go all the way down south for the "Darkcenu" thing, or keep it closer to home, which could be problematic, considering the nearest desert location (southeast of Jerusalem, within the "territories") and the fact that the kids are foreigners (schools and organizations planning trips in these areas are expected to stay within a certain sector, obtain permits and inform the military and the police of their plans for their trip-- I'm sure the procedures are different, possibly more complex, for foreigners).

Personally, I see them as a minor threat-- and, again, I don't expect the Darckenu thing to last long (if it even gets off the ground). Too many problems.

8
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 09, 2010, 05:17:08 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
It seems that some part of their population want to maintain a certain rather old-fashioned model of parent - child interaction. I happened to see one episode of The world strictest parents where two British teenagers were sent to Israel to live with a local family according to their standards. Their guidelines for covering the girls up was not so far away from the standards in Iran.

Especially the British girl crumpled due to the harsh culture down there and it was only for a week.

That family belongs to an extreme orthodox sect. This type of people are a relatively small minority here-- and thank god for that!

9
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: New rehab facility for minors in the planning process
« on: November 09, 2010, 05:15:03 AM »
Don't you just love it when people think that just having been through treatment gives them all the knowledge/experience/authority they need to treat others?  ::) a sure-fire recipe for failure, or in the worse cases, damage.

10
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« on: November 09, 2010, 05:12:04 AM »
Interesting. I've noticed there's no Hebrew version of the site-- probably sticking to recruiting foreigners. I wonder where this thing is located (there are plenty of places that can be described as "desert", and you can't expect a foreigner to know when he's in the actual desert or not).
As for the instructors being ex-military people-- everybody here is ex-military. And the military culture is different from the US military. Knowing what units these guys/girls come from can tell a lot about who you're dealing with. Btw-- the law here requires armed escorts during school trips.

I don't think this thing's going to last long.

11
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: TB grad/Ryan Pink
« on: September 27, 2010, 03:32:57 AM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipFMJckZOM

Now that expresses this tragedy beautifully. Not that there is anything beautiful about it. This didn't have to end this way. Ryan suffered and died needlessly.

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World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: TB grad/Ryan Pink
« on: September 25, 2010, 09:04:20 AM »
Something Ryan wrote. I copied this off his MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/clarkpink).


I Told You I Was Joining the Army
one
Looking for sleep
in short lines,
fat and loaded and irrelevant.
And Goddamnit!
is there anyone here that can remember that blue smile on her bloated face?

All of us
go somewhere,
if we go anywhere
at all.

two
Where is the bad man? opiated and hard to see,
smoke hanging in front of broken mirrors.

My face
is in pieces.

His face
is peaceful.

My brother lives in Texas with a kind woman that fixes him dinner
every night.
She is his
excuse.

What is mine?

three
When I was a child, my mother warned me about picking scabs.

I've never
learned
to listen
to anyone
about anything.

I write short lines
and sleep escapes me
every time I close my eyes.

I don't have a melody
anymore.
Like so many other things
it trailed away,
skyward,
leaving the cracked glass of these broken mirrors and when I look at the reflection,
it is
spot on
perfect.

four
I live in New Mexico with a kind woman that asks me if I will be joining her for dinner
at least,

"You don't try, Baby."

There is something more
than space
between us.

"I can't make the boy laugh
the way you do.
He misses you, Ryan. He wants
his father."

five
This room here is dusty. There is a picture of Kafka on the wall
that makes me think of his sister,
starving in one of those camps.

He looks
so young.

He looks
so lucky.

Above all else,
human beings
hate
other human beings;
only because
there is a lacking
between us.

six
Once, if my memory serves me well, my anger was righteous and beautiful.
I used to be able to sing it,
really sing it,
and hold that note,
stretch it out into the heavens below and the ground above, turn it into something beautiful,
something so young
and so lucky
that the Gods would smile, almost as if
they were happy
with me.

(Can't explain why I care so much about him - never knew him personally, just read what he wrote).

13
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: TB grad/Ryan Pink
« on: September 24, 2010, 04:49:11 PM »
I'm not sure if this is still relevant...

"My friend Ryan Pink passed away last weekend. Without getting too much into detail, he was haunted by a life that never gave him much room to breathe. What came out of it was art that I admire to this very day and will admire for the rest of my life. I have revisited it with a bit more care, and I continue to find amazing beauty in the way Ryan takes jagged, rusty words and puts them together with duct tape to create these vivid scenes. Through both his poetry and his music, Ryan expressed himself like no one I had ever known and it always felt honest and fluid. Nothing was forced or saturated with influence. The only influence he knew was the life he lived and he translated that for anyone that cared to listen (or read). He trusted me with his music and I did what I could to promote his music through websites. Sometimes I fear I didn’t do enough."
http://katarokkar.cribble.net/tag/ryan-pink/

Going by the wording of this post... I assume he committed suicide. But I have no real, concrete info. I'm sorry.

14
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: Tranquility Bay parents on attack
« on: July 23, 2010, 05:10:02 AM »
They're emphasizing his being Jewish because he's not just an ordinary Jewish kid, he's from a highly orthodox family belonging to the Hassidut movement. These people live extremely insular lives in communities that are often trying their best to segregate themselves and their kids from the outside world. Weird bunch.

15
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What happened to ISACorp?
« on: July 22, 2010, 04:56:43 AM »
Odessa is in Ukraina, not Russia.
Of all the various factions that want ISAC offline (programs/ ed cons/etc.), which ones have any contact to Ukraina?... (and why?...)

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