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Messages - Polarbear

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1
Actually, I bet a lot of people in Idaho would be happy to stick it to them.  They're the ones who have to deal with the kids.  I know of at least one car theft during my stay there, from a local dentist, I think.  I know the Police have fun trying to chase down out-of-state kids.  Even if they contribute some to the local economy, I'm sure many locals would rather not have their area be a dumping ground for California's problem cases.  They weren't really happy with outsiders in general when I was there.  I guess time will tell.  Personally, I would think settling out of court would be their best bet.  Pay off the plaintiffs for their silence, get them to agree not to post their stories on the web and stop defaming them.  Seems to me like it's easier to just pay off people than deal with a trial.
Enjoy-Polarbear

2
What keyloggers?  Fill me in, will you?  I'd like to know what I'm looking for.  Enjoy-Polarbear

3
Tacitus' Realm / Religion...Just say NO
« on: December 01, 2004, 01:43:00 PM »
Live as though Christ died yesterday, rose from the grave today, and is coming back tomorrow.
--Theodore Epp

We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to learn that it is God shaking them.
--Charles West

God's work done God's way will never lack God's supply.
--Hudson Taylor

God gave us memories that we might have roses in December.
--Sir James Barrie


We believe that all men are created equal because they are created in the image of God.
--Harry S. Truman

The Christian life is not a constant high. I have my moments of deep discouragement. I have to go to God in prayer with tears in my eyes, and say, 'O God, forgive me,' or 'Help me.'
--Billy Graham

How else but through a broken heart may Lord Christ enter in
--Oscar Wilde

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to the garage makes you a car
--Laurence J. Peter

Depend on it. God's work done in God's way will never lack God's supply. He is too wise a God to frustrate His purposes for lack of funds, and He can just as easily supply them ahead of time as afterwards, and He much prefers doing so.
--J. Hudson Taylor China Inland Mission

Enjoy-Polarbear

4
Tacitus' Realm / Religion...Just say NO
« on: December 01, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »
Quotes from Famous Scientists


Johannes Kepler [1571-1630]
Astronomy/Laws of Planetary Motion
"I had the intention of becoming a theologian...but now I see how God is, by my endeavors, also glorified in astronomy, for 'the heavens declare the glory of God.'"

"I am a Christian...I believe... only and alone in the service of Jesus Christ...In Him is all refuge, all solace."

"Let my name perish if only the name of God the Father is thereby elevated."

"[God] is the kind Creator who brought forth nature out of nothing."
___________________________________________________________________________


Blaise Pascal [1623-1662]
Scientist noted for work in physics, hydrostatics, vacuums; inventor of mechanical calculator

"Jesus Christ, I have separated myself from Him:
I have fled from Him, denied Him, crucified Him.
Let me never be separated from Him.
We keep hold of Him only by the ways taught in the Gospel.
Renunciation, total and sweet.
Total submission to Jesus Christ..."
{from a manuscript dated Monday November 23, 1654 and found in his own handwriting in his coat at his death}

"Knowing God without knowing our own wretchedness engenders pride. Knowing our own wretchedness without knowing God engenders despair." [Pascal - Pensees no 527]
*Also famous for "Pascal's Wager"--a powerful defense of the Christian faith
_____________________________________________________________________________


Robert Boyle [1627-1691]
Founder of Modern Chemistry/Gas Dynamics
Governor of Missionary organization for propagating the gospel in New England
Personally financed the translation of the Bible into Irish, Turkish, and Arabic
Author of "The Christian Virtuoso" reflecting on the study of nature for Christians
Author of Christian devotional book, "Occasional Reflections"
His will after his death financed the "Boyle Lectures" which were lectures in defense of Christianity
"From a knowledge of His work, we shall know Him"
"Christ's passion, His death, His resurrection and ascension, and all of those wonderful works which He did during His stay upon earth, in order to confirm mankind in the belief of His being God as well as man."
____________________________________________________________________________


Sir Isaac Newton [1642-1727]
Mathematician, Physicist
Inventor of calculus
Law of universal gravitation
Newton's three laws of motion:
1) Law of inertia 2) Force=mass*acceleration 3) Principle of action and reaction
Published "Newton's Prophecies of Daniel"
after his study and translation of the Book of Daniel [in the Bible]
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."

" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"

____________________________________________________________________________


Sir William Herschel [1738-1822]
Astronomist. Discovered Uranus, several nebulae, and binary stars.
First to accurately describe the Milky Way Galaxy
?All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more
the Truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.?
"The undevout astronomer must be mad."
_____________________________________________________________________



Samuel Morse [1791-1872]
Inventor of the telegraph
"Education without religion is in danger of substituting wild theories for the simple commonsense rules of Christianity."
First message sent by the electric telegraph:
"What hath God wrought"
{This is found in the Bible; Numbers 23:23}
{The message was sent from the Supreme Court Room in the Capitol to the railway depot at Baltimore; May 24, 1844}
{In one letter, Samuel Morse wrote "What hath GOD wrought" by capitalizing and underlining "GOD" twice!}
______________________________________________________________


Michael Faraday [1791-1867]
Inventor of the electric generator and the transformer
Discovered Benzene--used to make plastics, nylon and dyes
Produced the first test tubes
Described Field Theory
*Hailed by Albert Einstein as the foundation for his own scientific discoveries*
Elder in his church for over 20 years
"Speculations? I have none. I am resting on certainties. 'I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.'"
"A Christian finds his guide in the Word of God, and commits the keeping of his soul into the hands of God. He looks for no assurance beyond what the Word can give him, and if his mind is troubled by the cares and fears which assail him, he can go nowhere but in prayer to the throne of
grace and to Scripture."
"Since peace is alone in the gift of God; and as it is He who gives it, why should we be afraid? His unspeakable gift in His beloved Son is the ground of no doubtful hope." --[1861 letter]
"The Bible, and it alone, with nothing added to it nor taken away from it by man, is the sole and sufficient guide for each individual, at all times and in all circumstances?For faith in the divinity and work of Christ is the gift of God, and the evidence of this faith is obedience to the commandment of Christ."
____________________________________________________________________________


Matthew Maury [1806-1873]
The "Father" of oceanography
Aided in the laying of the first trans-Atlantic cable
Maury believed Psalm 8:8, which speaks of the "paths of the seas" , and he discovered "oceanic currents"
Maury described atmospheric circulation and showed that it was already described in Ecclesiastes 1:6
Maury showed Job 28:25 to be true with respect to the weight of the winds.

"The Bible is true and science is true, and therefore each, if truly read, but proves the truth of the other."
_____________________________________________________________________________


James Prescott Joule [1818-1889]
Described the First Law of Thermodynamics: The Law of Conservation of Energy
[American Biochemist Isaac Asimov said that the First Law of Thermodynamics is
"one of the most important generalizations in the history of science"]
Kinetic Theory of Gases
"Joule-Thomson" effect--the basis of refrigeration
A unit of energy [work] in physics is now called a "joule"

"It is evident that an acquaintance with natural laws means no less than
an acquaintance with the mind of God therein expressed."
"Order is manifestly maintained in the universe...governed by the sovereign will of God"
"After the knowledge of, and obedience to, the will of God, the next aim must be to know something of His attributes of wisdom, power, and goodness as evidenced by His handiwork."
_____________________________________________________________________________


James Clerk Maxwell [1831-1879]
Statistical Thermodynamics, Field equations of electricity, magnetism, light

" No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of molecules,
for evolution necessarily implies continuous change."

"Almighty God, Who has created man in Thine own image, and made him a living soul that he might seek after Thee,
and have dominion over Thy creatures, teach us to study the works of Thy hands, that we may subdue the earth to our use, and strengthen the reason for Thy service; so to receive Thy blessed Word, that we may believe on Him Who Thou has sent, to give us the knowledge of salvation and the remission of our sins. All of which we ask in the name of the same Jesus Christ, our Lord." {prayer written by Maxwell and found amongst his notes}

Maxwell was an elder in the church he helped establish near his home.
__________________________________________________________________________

 
Louis Pasteur [1822-1895]
Father of Microbiology, developed "pasteurization"
"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator."
"Science brings men nearer to God."
_____________________________________________________________________________


Jean-Henri Fabre [1823-1915]
Entomology, Biology
Author of 8-volume series "Souvenirs Entomologiques"
detailing the behavior and life history of many species

"Without Him, I understand nothing; without Him, all is darkness?Every period has its manias.
I regard Atheism as a mania. It is the malady of the age.
You could take my skin from me more easily than my faith in God."
______________________________________________________________________________

 
Sir Joseph Lister [1827-1912]
Father of antiseptic surgery, first to wire fractures, developed dissolving sutures
"I am a believer in the fundamental doctrines of Christianity"
________________________________________________________

 
Lord Kelvin [William Thomson] [1824-1907]
Physicist, Laws of Thermodynamics, Absolute temperature scale, inventor
"With regard to the origin of life, science...positively affirms creative power."
"Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us...
the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words."
___________________________________________________________


George Washington Carver [c. 1864-1943]
agricultural chemist, inventor of over 300 products
"Without my Savior, I am nothing."
"I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station,
through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in."
"God is going to reveal to us things he never revealed before if we put our hands in his. No books ever go into my laboratory, a thing I am to do and the way of doing it are revealed me."
________________________________________________________


Wernher Von Braun [1912-1977]; first Director of NASA, pioneer of space exploration
"Scientific concepts exist only in the minds of men.
Behind these concepts lies the reality which is being revealed to us, but only by the grace of God."

Enjoy-Polarbear

5
Tacitus' Realm / Religion...Just say NO
« on: December 01, 2004, 01:35:00 PM »
According to a recent article:

"I was reminded of this a few months ago when I saw a survey in the journal Nature. It revealed that 40% of American physicists, biologists and mathematicians believe in God--and not just some metaphysical abstraction, but a deity who takes an active interest in our affairs and hears our prayers: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."(1)

The degree to which the constants of physics must match a precise criteria is such that a number of agnostic scientists have concluded that there is some sort of "supernatural plan" or "Agency" behind it. Here is what they say:

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word." (3)

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature?s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming". (4)

Paul Davies: "The laws [of physics] ... seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design... The universe must have a purpose". (5)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall? be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." (16)

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God ? the design argument of Paley ? updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe, in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe, however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan." (23)

Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100 billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be entirely unique." (25)

Enjoy-Polarbear

6
Tacitus' Realm / Religion...Just say NO
« on: December 01, 2004, 01:23:00 PM »
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
? We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God?

Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.

William Bradford
? wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
? 1) "a better, and easier place of living?; and that ?the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]?

? 2) ?The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620

?Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together??
__________________________________________________

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
? The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity? I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.?

? ?[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.?
?John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]

Samuel Adams:
? He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all? Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.? [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

? Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity? and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.? [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
? ?Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" ?Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

?The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.?
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot:
? Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.?

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin:
? God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel? ?Constitutional Convention of 1787

?In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered? do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?? [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
? Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
?The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.?

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, ?I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.?

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
? ?In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, ?at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness? Resolved; ?Thursday the 11th of May?to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation ?and a Blessing on the ? Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]?That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation?for the redress of America?s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
? This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.?
?The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

?It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.? [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

?The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.?

John Jay:
? Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.? Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

?Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.? [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Thomas Jefferson:
? The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.?

?Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.?

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

?God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.? (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson?s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Samuel Johnston:
? ?It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States.
[Elliot?s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]

James Madison
? We?ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.?

?We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We?ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity?to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.? [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

? I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)
? In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
? An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia? Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

?It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.?

? A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
?For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.?
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; ?Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same ? body of principal men ? exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America?s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]

James McHenry ? Signer of the Constitution

Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.

Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."

John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3.
"Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown."

Thomas Paine:
? It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.?
? The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.? ?The Existence of God--1810?

Benjamin Rush:
? ?I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them?we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.? ?By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.? [Letter written (1790?s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
? ?Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.?
? ?If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.?

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education?
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787

Justice Joseph Story:
? I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.?
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
? Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.? [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
? At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.?
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

Noah Webster:  
? The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.?

?In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.?
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]

Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]

?All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.? [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]

?The Bible was America?s basic textbook
in all fields.? [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]

?Education is useless without the Bible? [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]

George Washington:

Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..." | photo of Farewell address original manuscript


? It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.?

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.? [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words ?So help me God!? to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.

Nelly Custis-Lewis (Washington?s adopted daughter):
Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."

? O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?
[George Washington; from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752
William J. Johnson George Washington, the Christian (New York: The Abingdon Press, New York & Cincinnati, 1919), pp. 24-35.]
Click here for George Washington's Prayer Journal

"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]

James Wilson:
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Supreme Court Justice appointed by George Washington
Spoke 168 times during the Constitutional Convention

"Christianity is part of the common law"
[Sources: James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).]

________________________________________________________________________
Public Institutions
Liberty Bell Inscription:
? Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof? [Leviticus 25:10]

Proposals for the seal of the United States of America
? ?Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea? ?Ben Franklin


? ?The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.? --Thomas Jefferson

On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it

Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.

Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:
" Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning in the Red Sea


The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
? At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
?For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.?

Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
? "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
? The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.


Used in public and private schools from 1690 to 1900 second only to the Bible
Some of its contents:
A song of praise to God
Prayers in Jesus? name
The famous Bible alphabet
Shorter Catechism of faith in Christ

Enjoy-Polarbear

7
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Sexuality in CEDU
« on: November 29, 2004, 11:45:00 PM »
I think the big stumbling block here is we're not dealing with adults.  In most cases the students are, what, 14-18?  So there's a big reason for them to smash any attempts at intimacy right at the get-go.  I wonder how much of that was related to the shutdown of that one school-was it Cascade where the kids had a big sex-a-thon in the housing?

The fact is, these programs run on structure.  They structure everything down to insane detail.  I don't remember the RMA system ever allowing for a personal choice where there were no negative consequences.  Maybe when you're at home or when you leave.  I guess they figure you'll be armed to make the right choices if you just shut up, do it their way, and stay in your lane for a couple years.  You do it their way or you pay.  

I seem to remember them trying to sort of hold the carrot out to us, too.  They had these legendary stories about upper school students who did so well that they were able to live off-campus in town and have a job.  But I never saw it happen while I was there.  No one ever managed to get anything remotely like that, either.  Enjoy-Polarbear

8
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Sexuality in CEDU
« on: November 29, 2004, 11:32:00 PM »
Shanlea-I don't disagree with you at all.  You're right.  I can't say it makes sense to demean and attack people who are supposed to be getting help.  As for Blownaway's comments-I don't think you can blame all of it on RMA.  You could spend the rest of your life trying to figure that out for yourself. That's something no one can do for you.

Over the years I have tried to piece together what exactly it was about the RMA experience that didn't make sense to me.  There was a lot.  But something I've thought about was maybe there's too little foundation for what they're trying to teach.  It's like they are trying to emphasize a kind of worldview or lifestyle that is similar to a moral one without any of the traditional religious or ethical teaching that ordinarily accompanies it.  

Just for the sake of argument, I think most of us are influenced by a common Judeo/Christian culture, regardless of our beliefs, and it's hard to discuss values and morality without falling back on that shared culture.  Maybe that's where you can rationalize attacking a young person's sexuality?  Outside of that cultural background (or your own personal beliefs) what other absolutes are you enforcing?  
I never saw the school make any conscious recognition of religion beyond the 60s New Age consciousness stuff they tossed into the mix.  

 I would say that I've got some experience with institutional living, having done several years in the military, and religion seems like a side of life you should leave available for people to practice as they wish.  I don't recall it being an option when I was at RMA.  I wouldn't force it on people, like I keep hearing about the Mormons on this site, but I think they should have provided access for those who wanted it.  Then again, I bet they hate to admit there's a higher authority than themselves.  

After reading some other peoples' comments I think back to some raps I was in.  And opening up to deeply personal issues like that to uneducated laymen with petty personalities and no real training is about the last thing I would want to do!  Like I said above-you could spend the rest of your life trying to work out those issues for yourself.  I doubt they could do much good trying to dump shame and humiliation on your most intimate issues.

Enjoy-Polarbear

9
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Rap Agreements
« on: November 28, 2004, 05:43:00 PM »
When we start the rap I'll check off my list and razz everyone with at least one zinger just to see what comes up.

If you have nothing obviously wrong, we'll go on a fishing trip with random accusations and guesses until we find something real to talk about.

Enjoy-Polarbear

10
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Sexuality in CEDU
« on: November 28, 2004, 05:33:00 PM »
Now, I may be way off here, but I think a school has a pretty strong reason to be against sex among the students.  Aside from whatever therapeutic nonesense they endorse you have to figure it would drive the public up the wall. It would create such a tidal wave of problems the place would probably have to shut down.  I figure the parents would go nuts, the state would yank their permits, their accreditation would be popped, and their image would plummet.  Especially when you consider they're supposed to be helping minors, not running a brothel.  

If CEDU is anything like RMA was when I was there (Worse, right?) then I'm not surprised they take things to such an extreme that it's a witch hunt.  I'm not saying they're right-nothing like good ol' shame and degradation to teach people morality.  But I can see why they might have a reason behind what they do.  
Enjoy-Polarbear

11
The Troubled Teen Industry / SUWS
« on: November 27, 2004, 09:39:00 AM »
I seem to remember, from over 10 years ago, that SUWS was something like Southern ---- Wilderness Survival.  I knew a lot of people at RMA at the time were sent there for running away or other issues.  That was 91'-93'.  I never wanted to do that, so I tended to stay low on the radar.  The way I remember it, I was told that they first starved you for 24 hours.  To shrink your stomach.  Then you subsisted on a limited amount of food for the duration of your stay.  You were allowed to catch anything you could to add to your diet, but you had to eat what you caught.  You started off in teepees and moved onto the trail for a period of time.  You were privileged to have a bow drill.  If you screwed up enough you could have that taken away.  You would be left with a hand drill.  Evidently that's really crappy.  I saw people back then who lost a ton of weight.  There was nowhere for them to run off to, so they stayed with the group.  Since they drank from streams and cattle watering holes the kid complained of giardia, suffering even after they got back.  It was a tough program by all accounts.  I joined the army in 2001 and I figure letting ex-soldiers deal with kids in a program like that is asking for trouble.  I remember there was one program in Washington state that killed a kid in 92' or 93' becuase they ignored his or her dehydration.  
Enjoy-Polarbear

12
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / i feel like im going crazy
« on: November 27, 2004, 08:17:00 AM »
"Yeah, it took them a good 4 hours to break me down and get me to sign, too. I didn't believe the 'two week evaluation' lie, but I did believe they could get a 2 year court order and that I could get out faster than that by one way or another.

I would determine addiction in a child or adult by observing physical withdrawal symptoms. And I would suggest treatment by a licensed medical professional who would come up w/ a plan for withdrawal or maintainance. Also, lots of accurate education about the drug to which they're addicted and the withdrawal methods and drugs from a variety of sources.

But locking someone down w/ a bunch of zealots who think teenagers who try different fashions, make new friends and need privacy like a toddler needs their binker are all addicts and who 'treat' this alleged addiction through shaming and isolation is just .... medieval."
-Antigen

Antigen- I gotta say, the more I read what you write, even when I disagree with you, I'm impressed by how well you do it. :smile:  I think you're right on this one.  The official symptoms, at least here in the US, can easily be construed as the normal angst and awkwardness of growing up IN the US.  I was tested and re-tested growing up.  They made all sorts of guesses about my problems as a 13 year old.  But the problem with observing something is that you tend to change it by observing it.  I was no exception.  For the original author of this thread I can only add my opinion.

I'm sorry you feel bad.  It sounds like you're carrying a lot of weight on your shoulders.  I bet you're not that dull.  Maybe you should pursue what interests you.  You may not relate to the people you used to know, but by doing what interests you you will find new people who share those interests.  You may be at a point where you're moving beyond them and haven't replaced them yet.  
I have a wide variety of interests and hobbies.  I pursue them and I talk about them and other people respond.  I've discovered some of the most interesting people in the world just through my interest in fine tobacco.
Enjoy-Polarbear

13
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bye Arafat!
« on: November 26, 2004, 11:24:00 AM »
I never said Israel was without fault.  What I said was Arafat was a sick evil bastard.  But as far as Israel is concerned-they don't have a history of terrorist attacks on Americans.  The PLO can't make the same claims.  

As for giving them their land back I would point out that you're making an insanely out-of-touch statement.  History doesn't show them to be the true owners of that land.  In fact, the people who call themselves Palestinians are not.  There was never an ethnic group by that name.  Palestine was a name used by the Romans who administered the region.  The people who call themselves Palestinians are generally ethnic Syrians.  Arafat is, or was, Egyptian.

In 1977 Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein stated for Dutch newspaper "Trouw" the following:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

That's their leadership speaking there.  Do you really believe they would give up the struggle if Israel gave them back their land???  The PLO declared from the start that their goal was the total destruction of Israel.  They have never changed that goal, not even after the peace accords and the foolish attempt to give them responsibility and legitimacy.  They are never going to look for peace except as a chance to re-arm and re-equip and train new forces.  They get great mileage out of their status as victims now.  

2 American writers managed to get into the West Bank to interview representatives of various terrorist groups several years ago.  They went in and met with them to ask them questions from a wide variety of directions.  The basic lesson they walked out with was simple.  These people are not fighting to help "their" people.  They have no economic plan.  No idea how to lead the locals.  No plan for co-existence of any kind.  They only exist to carry on the fruitless struggle and kill more and more people.  Foreign money finances much of it.  Saudis and Iraq have been the big funding source for the suicide bombings.  If Saudis weren't paying for martyrs, there would be fewer of them.

Don't make the mistake of believing the so-called Palestinians would stop killing if they got back that land.  Israel has every right to take that land and anything else they need to insure the safety of their civilians.  You don't see Israelis attacking unarmed civilians and blowing themselves up at "Palestinian" bus stops.  If I had to defend my public I would take much more extreme measures.  I would completely bulldoze every inch of the enemy settlements and push them all across the borders.  But no one wants them.  The Israelis have offered to pretty much give them what they want 3 times.  Arafat turned it down every time.  In 2000 Israel, under Barak, offered the Palestinians essentially their own state, based out of Jerusalem, control over the Temple Mount, 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza Strip, and a $30 billion compensation package for the 1948 refugees. This was unheard of!  Saudi Arabia's Prince Bandar urged them to take the deal and told them refusal would be criminal.  Arafat didn't even offer a counter-proposal.  How much more land do you think they need?

As long as you see it as killing squatters-with what I've written here, does that mean the Israelis are also justified in killing squatters, too?  Because with their vastly superior forces they should be able to wipe out their enemies and liberate the rest of that land, ending the problem for all time.  

I don't know why you seem to hate Israel.  Personally, I don't have a dog in their fight.  I wish we didn't spend money on their defense.  But I support a sovereign nation killing terrorists and threats to their safety.  Kill em' all.  I don't care what it takes.  If I had to oversee the defense of my nation I would stop at no end to protect it.  At this point I believe Israel has essentially constructed a Berlin Wall around the enemy areas, shutting off contact and pretty much insuring their economic chances are nil.  The "Paletinians" have no one to blame but their own greedy self-appointed leaders.  Thank God Arafat is dead.  I hope he's rotting in Hell as I type, paying for his murderous criminal career.
Enjoy-Polarbear

14
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bye Arafat!
« on: November 24, 2004, 02:58:00 AM »
Arafat was a sick evil bastard.  The shame of it all is that he proved all you need to do to get power and profits is to survive long enough.  The US was even giving him money.  Thanks to our short-sighted weakness today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman.  

Hell, Osama's only been on the run for 3 years and he's already telling us who we should vote for...

Enjoy-Polarbear

15
Hey yall, been gone a while but it looks like you have been very busy.  I was surprised to hear RMA was down to 30 students.  WOW!  Times have changed since 93'.  Prior to the funny farm opening up there must have been a couple hundred of us there.  
Just out of curiousity, has anyone checked into the statute of limitations and how it relates to your case?  
Enjoy-Polarbear

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