Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

A survivor has shared her story on reddit, she was kidnapped, then brainwashed and abused at Cross Creek Academy in Utah. All because her mother was worried that she was gay.

We've had over 100k hits so far, and that was mostly over a holiday weekend. It's gone viral on the internet, it's been reposted in its entirety to countless places, including boing-boing, tumblr, facepunch and a ton of blogs, to name a few. One gaming website said they had 16k hits alone. People are Facebooking and Tweeting the link. There's no telling how many lives she has touched, the truth about these places is getting out, you guys!

People from all over the world are writing in, even Serbia expressed their horror and disgust. Serbia!

Survivors are also writing in and sharing their stories, there is a huge discussion and many people are being made aware of this 'invisible' problem. The outpouring of sympathy, support, shock and outrage has been overwhelming.

People care about this issue. They really care.

http://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/c ... at_a_utah/

It's long, I'll put the story in a separate post...

Wow.  I don't know.. This seems pretty significant to me.  This is exactly what needs to be.  This Reddit is something else.  It could be an excellent vehicle, methinks.

Paul

I have to say that if your son is robbing your neighbors homes, then he is criminal, and he will be lucky if he does not go to juvie.  He's earned it. And if you want to keep him out, he is going to have to make his plea to a judge, so that he can get probation or something of the sort. He is going to have to want to stay out.  He is going to have to want to make a change, and he is going to have to convince the family court that he will do it, and that he is very remorseful for what he has done.

If he is already going to a therapist, then at least you have been able to get him to do that, so he is not a total loose cannon.  I would look to get him to a better therapist..  Of course that is easier said then done....  Basically, I think the best ones are ones that are goal-oriented, and self-esteem oriented.. or just anyone that will look you in the eye and say.. Yeah.. I can probably taker care of that... They are out there.

These questions are like almost impossible to answer, because I am not there, and I do not knwo the specifics.. but a role model could help.. Someone who does the right thing and has good values, but is thougher then him!  

Paul

Not sure what you mean Paul.
Could you be more specific?

You do know what I mean, Art.  For most people this site is about certain things - growth, recovery- debate- closing these TC's- spreading awareness about these TC's.



Art, look over your last 100 or so posts, you only come here to attack people.  That's it.  That's all that you do.  You can knock this core campaign all you want.  me- I don t know much about the specifics of all these people's lives.  I do not know even who comprises this group.  I do know that recently Elan shut down.  I do know that a very large part of it has to do with "internet attacks".  I do know that you contributed very little if anything to it.

Now, this core campaign describes itself as wishing to spread further awareness, and go after other TC's. You attack them. You start talking about the individuals.

I'm gonna be honest with ya Art.  You're obsessed.   And I just think that anyone that who can t think of a single thing to post ever that isn t derogatory about others, has some shit to think about.

You can say all you want about Babitz.  I don t know the guy, but he did more that contributed to the shutting down Elan then you ever did.   and honestly, me personally, that is what I am interested.  I don t give a shit about the argument between you, or about you and Sharon.

Paul St. John

This is a really good idea for a thread.

Molly,
     I've always found it hard to give responses to questions like this.  There are just so many details and specifics that are unknown to me... even the essence of a situation, with all it's subtle nuances, which make up the complete tapestry of this living, existent situation of your's.  I don t know of any boarding school that I could recommend.  I know of few, and the ones I do, I've only heard mostly bad things about.... and also just from my point of view, in my own mind, it is hard to see how a boarding school, of all things, is going to help your son with his condition.

Here is my perspective.  I'm not answering as an expert, or even someone who went to a program.  I'm just gonna tell ya what I would do, 'cause why the hell not? I wouldn't be looking for a safety net.  I wouldn t be preparing for a failure that has not yet occurred, but rather, focusing all my attention, on my boy staying in his school, as you said, you do not want to send him away.
I wouldn t think twice about it.  I wouldn t waste my time thinking about it.  If, in the end, I could not keep him in his school, it would not be for lack of my trying, or due to my preparing my mind for an ensuing failure.  And if it did go down that way, I would deal with it then.  Life is fluid.  You gotta go with what you have now, and make the best of it.

My perspective is that, if you are already saying ' hopefully his school will keep him, but if not we got such and such place already planned out', it's like you already have him all locked up in your mind... like a problem needing a solution, not a person. ' ( I am not trying to criticize but only offering an outside perspective.)
Let's say he improves, and starts doing amazingly... Do you have a safety net for that?  ( see where I'm going with this?)

For me, I would just decide how I want this to go, and then asking questions based on that....
Is it possible to do this?  Has anyone done this?  What can help?   Basically- How can I do this?-

It starts with a solid resolution to keep your son with you, and help him develop to be his best. I would tell myself that this is important to me, and I am going to get it done.  I would seek out my own resources.  i would listen to the ones, that were useful to me, and build on those.

As far as the doc only believing in using drugs, as a last resort, personally, I am in full alignment with that. I do a very small, but important bit of knowledge on neuroscience, and of the belief, that yes brain chemistry absolutely effects behavior, BUT almost every time, our brain chemistry is at the effect of our thoughts, beliefs, and emotions.  You say that the test confirmed he had ADHD.. In my viewpoint, of course, it did.  It only told you what you already know.. If it didn t, then that would just mean that he is an actor. It's like watching the weather on TV to confirm you really see rain outside your window..
But most people do not think of it that way.  Tests are all official and important, and this one has confirmed that your child has a condition.... But you have to be very careful here... There is always the pull to blow the condition out of proportion, and this is bad... We like confirmation of a condition, because if it is an actual thing with an actual name, then we can cure it .. and we can say " Hey .. he has a condition.  Give him a break.. It's not his fault, and it's not ours... he has a condition dammit!"

But in this particular situation, there are problems with this-  One being that a psychological condition is not the same thing as a medical condition, because we are as far in this area of study, as we were eons ago, in medicine.  All they have is theories, hopes, and along list of failures.. most of them anyway.

The other is this, and this is very , very important in my mind- If you get focused on the condition, you lose sight of the person, and if you lose sight of the person, you lose ALL hope of helping him. That's a fact.  Our brain chemistry effects our behavior, but the only health way to change the brain chemistry almost every time, is through the person.. Through the person!

A Spartans had different brain chemistry then you and I . Different beliefs.. different ideas.   I have different brain chemistry when I am relaxing then when I am working my ass off.

Let's say a person has a belief that keeps them trapped in a state if fear or anxiety, perhaps, it so deep, that they are not even aware of it.. That could account for it.. Traumatic loss or phobias never dealt with could account for it.

The way I see it, ( and granted this is just the way I see it), you have 2 choices:

You can be the average human being, accept that your child, is very intelligent but also diseased.  let society cater to the disease.  he will probably never get better, but you can always blame the disease, and the condition.  people will understand.  they have to or they will be considered inconsiderate.  many people will offer their hope and counsle.. priests family, neighbors , etc.  all in a big drama to get nowhere... and many people will take over many things for you and relieve some of the burden, as for every disease there is at least one expert, taht just loves to have a diagnosis of which they know all...

or you can take a heroic approach.. Forget the disease, and focus on the boy.. Focus on the boy.. Focus on the boy.. get it done .. make it happen.  It will be messy, unclean, with no illusions of certainty.. Lots of times you will make progress, only to lose it later.. You will not be able to view him as a victim anymore, and it will take discpline on your part to move forward.  most people will disagree with what you are doing, and almost no one will support you, and in the end, hopefully, you get the job done.

As I see it, there is no cure.  There is only you.  there is you, and your boy, and your hope and intentions for him, because in the end, there is no one in this world, who will care about him as you do.  Me, I just don t think I d give up.   but again, I don t no any of the particulars..

Be well.. Take care..

Paul St. John

PS I hope this ain t Whooter..

PLEASE HELP!!! Should I send my son to Hyde???

No.

Let me qualify a few statements.
1) This danny BS just drags this forum down
2) posting,reposting,crossposting only shows off how sick,vendictive,and childish this place is
I will not be reading this book,or any others. This cesspool of a site/Elan forum is dying a slow death. Alot like Elan is dying out. Seems the only purpose this place serves is the same as Elan ... To mess with others and show off how sick we all are
My participation has been,and will continue to be scaled back untill a) this forum is dormant b) the sick people arent participating.

I have to disagree with you here Art, even though I know were you are coming from, and certainly, there has been a lot of childish shit going on here, at numerous points, during the sites existence.

.. But all in all, I think that this site, has in fact, not only spread awareness, but motivated and empowered people, also, to go forward in numerous other ways, spreading awareness.

If there is a bigger, longer- lasting site, that exists for the purpose that this one does, I don t know of it.

I think that the existence of this site has had a huge impact on Elan, and the other treatment centers as well. I think that if this site did not exist, the world would actually be a different place today.  Not all things that could be traced back to this site, would be self-evident, but still I am certain of it's impact.

Paul St. John

PS I know that I have said this before, and it may appear that I am a broken record, or that I got a thing for her or something, but Ginger should be aware of what she has done.
This site did not have to exist.  Someone had to make it, and since, it has effected the lives of so many.

If it was so unimportant, there would not be so many against it. The power of good people coming together is a great thing.

Someday, all these place will be completly gone, and there will be actual documentaries about all this shit, and Fornits will have a big place in them, or at least that's what I think.

And you re right Art, Elan , is dying, but don t you think that the spreading of it's reality has something to do with that.  The Skakel case may have started a fire, but if not fed, that fire would have burnt out quickly..


And another thing... just while on it's on my mind... Yes, Elan, is dying off, but the battle is not over yet.  They are still there, and I am sure that everyone will agree they should not be.  It's not done til they're gone. ( Damn I would hate me if I was them..lol) But right is right.

I am not a big fan of Obama, but he ran an excellent election campaign.  One of the things he did, that really impressed me, was that right at the end, when it seemed certain that he had it in the bag, he campaigned harder then ever, and spread that idea to his people ( as in supporters).  .. that it was never over til it was over... Don't win.. decimate.

I remember that in my private reflection time, I felt so goddam empty.  My life felt so unimportant and irrelevant.  So naturally, I should have done something about that... made a change... but I couldn t .. The terms of my life were defined by an outside party.  They owned me. There was nothing I could do about it.  I watched them break the wills of so many.. It was usually quick, with like a "SNAP!".  They were breaking mine slowly, and painfully.

When I reflected on it, it scared me, and it felt like dying, and this wasn t just a feeling- thing.  I had logic to back it.  They were, in fact, bringing me closer to death.  I was regressing.  I was sufferring loss while under their care.  I was no longer happy.  I had nothing to look forward to on the horizon.. no purpose...just more Daytop.  

They were "theives of the mind", as I percieved them, and I was in their den.  In my personal reflections, it would scare me, because I knew that there would be consequences to my life, for the time that I had spent there.

I think for me, I know what my biggest issue with Daytop was, when all was said and done.. It was my shame. I was ashamed of having been a part of it all, and that shame grew greater, and less reversible every day.  I was wrong to have felt that way.  I was being far too tough of a critic on myself, and also only compromising my own ability to defend myself against them.

.. and as I write this, an interesting thought pops into my head-

* In order for Daytop or something similar to get you to accept their ideas, they don't have to prove to you that they are right, or even a little bit right.
* They only have to convince you that you are wrong, because if they can do that, you will naturally default, to the nearest, most readily available idea system, which, is, of course, theirs.

I don t know if i ever really thought about it quite like that before.  That makes their battle a very easy one.

They don t need to win the battle.  They only need you to lose the battle.

Makes sense- the key message that I always picked up , behind almost every thing that they did is - " You are wrong.  You're ideas are wrong."

Every thing a person said or did, that had even a little bit of assertion within it was always met with some form of negation.

Surely, the counselors offered some kind of Daytopian Absolution. They had to understand the principles involved.  They were too good at it.

How can self-growth come from self-denial? It can't.

EVERYONE KNOWS THIS!


 It's not about growth.  It never was.  It's about creating an illusion.