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Messages - Maximilian

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76
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Responsibility for Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 25, 2010, 01:59:51 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
To *my* mind, and I may very well be reading material into this that is not there, Samara is not just talking about physical survival, but emotional and psychological survival as well. And, yeah, a lot of kids did not make it as far as the latter is concerned.

One thing programs are particularly good at crippling, despite glowing marketing propaganda to the contrary, is even sub-ordinary development of kids' capacities for mercy and empathy. I would venture that you seem to have been especially hard hit in this general area.

You're completely right, Ursus. When I came to fornits and explained my positions I was met with nothing but empathy, people talked about how great it was, that even though they had negative experiences, they were pleased that I had a positive one. I was told, kindly, maturely, and politely that they understood why I say the program saved my life, and read my experiences and opinions and understand what I say, and accept it as accurate of my own interpretation of my own life. Oh wait, that's not right, fornits is filled with the most close minded, unempathetical, group thinkers I've ever encountered. Where outside thought is met with insults, intimidation, conspiracy theories and childish pictures. But surely when fornits stalks people in real life and posts their info, and posts pictures and personal information of staff, they are exercising their mercy, right? I suggest that you, and every other extremist anti program poster here take a little of their own empathy medicine, and look at what happened through the perspective of your parents, teachers, and the program staff you condemn without a second thought.

77
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« on: September 25, 2010, 01:51:01 PM »
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote
Although, I don't personally think Dead or in Jail is exaggerating in most cases.

That's because you support kiddie prisons, gulags, and kidnapping. You disprove your own point by showing that programmies are not exaggerating when they tell kids who shake off the brainwashing and walk out that they will soon be 'dead, insane, or in jail '. It was a common catch phrase among the staff when I was locked up at HLA. Anytime any kid got out he was assured of his fate. The funny thing is that I stay in touch with many of my former inmates, and the ones who escaped the program before completion are better adjusted now than the ones who completed it.

No one is exaggerating John, on either side. Thank you for proving that point.

The underlined words are examples of terms used only on fornits in the context of adolescent treatment programs. So when people here accuse people like me of using "program speak", or even this poster referring to program catch phrases, don't forget that fornits has developed it's own language, and catch phrases. These are used, of course, in an attempt to make programs seem much worse than they are, but that is obvious. From this point on I am going to refer to this phenomenon as "fornits speak".

78
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Responsibility for Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 25, 2010, 11:28:21 AM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Uneffingbelievable, M. You know damn well no one could complain because staff just called you a liar and said that is why you were in the program. And mental and emotional abuse? Hard to prove. Plus, we were not who we are today - able to sift through all the BS as easily.  We were trying to survive. And for many of us, that meant buying in. But if you dared to complain, your ass was grass for the rest of your tenure. I kept my lips zipped and stayed under the radar. Anyone who didn't was quashed hard and fast.  

I mean come on how hard is to believe, M? The whole of No Ko is brainwashed.

You are a parent. I don't say that because of your pro program sympathies. I say it because everything feels off about how you describe your experiences. Everything.


You say "we were trying to survive". How many kids did the program you were in actually kill? It sounds really dangerous the way you describe it, you sound lucky to be alive. I'm assuming the mortality rate was at least 50% then?

I didn't zip my lips or stay under the radar, I always said what I thought even if it made people angry, hey, sort of like fornits. But I was never "quashed hard and fast", and I was never abused mentally or emotionally or whatever people here call it. Just because I'm not willing to play the pity me, I'm a victim card like most posters here doesn't mean I didn't go to a program. It means that not everyone who goes to a supposedly abusive program (as described here) sees it that way. But if it makes people here feel better to assume I'm a program mother, knock yourself out. Denying reality seems to be integral to the fornits ideology, so I'm not surprised one bit.

79
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Troubled teens = troubled adults?
« on: September 25, 2010, 11:23:02 AM »
Quote from: "shaggys"
Lets see, does a troubled teen grow up to be a troubled adult? Well in at least one case we can say absolutely yes. Max/Suckit has already expressed his/her belief that the only abuse that is really "real" is that which the police can arrest the perpetrator for. He/she completely dismisses emotional, verbal and psychological abuse as somehow not really "abuse". This is a very good sign that Max/Suckit is an extremly troubled adult who poses a danger to any child left in his/her care. Parents this is what your kid will be taught in a program. Please listen to everything max/suckit says here. It is a window into the sick world of program devotees where abuse really isn't abuse at all. Parents be warned!

But wait. I thought I was a program mother, according to you? Better get your conspiracy theories figured out, so all the parents coming here will believe you and heed your warnings. But in all honesty, I think you'd have more luck standing out in front of a program with a sign, at least parents might actually read it then.

80
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 24, 2010, 04:41:35 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
The statute of limitations has run out in my case.  


Let me guess. The "mind control" is programmed to expire exactly after the statute of limitations of abuse, right? How devilishly clever of the programs.

81
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:35:09 PM »
Quote from: "Hedge"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "none-ya"
Quote
Whooter wrote;
"If someone is raped in a McDonalds that doesn't make all McDonalds abusive. Do you see what I mean?"


That's a ridiculous comparison.  Mcdonalds is responsible to providing a safe eating enviorment.They spend plenty on security and insurance to cover thier asses. Even though thier menu is a little on the tough love side is another story!


McDonalds spends very little on Security and their background checks are minimal.  How many times do you see security detail inside McDonalds.  Ronald isnt exactly a black belt.  You mention insurance,  they spend plenty on insurance to offset the lawsuits that are brought against them.  Paying high premiums doesnt equate to safety, None-ya, its just the opposite.



...

McDonalds isn't in charge of providing adequate care and education to adolescents, however.

If I agree to petsit your dog, and then beat it or starve it, I am responsible for the harm done to that dog because I caused it directly.

If I agree to petsit your dog, and let my cousin beat it or starve it with my knowledge, I am responsible for the harm done to that dog because it was my responsibility to prevent it.

In that way, facilities are responsible for the abuse that goes on in them. I don't know how it could be more simple.

If you were beat and starved in a program, then call the cops. Tell them the staff member's name who beat you and starved you, and have them charged with aggravated assault on a minor. The punishment would likely involve jail time, wouldn't that be sweet justice? Oh but wait. The police ask for pesky things like evidence, witness statements, and corroboration. Shucks. Guess that's why nobody here calls the cops on all the "abuse" going on right now in programs across the country, right? Well, at least we have the internet, where we can say whatever we want, condemn whoever we want and nobody asks us for proof.

82
The Troubled Teen Industry / Post your favorite thing about programs
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:25:14 PM »
My favorite thing about programs is how nice all the other kids were. I made a lot of friends in the program, and that experience will stay with my for a lifetime. Post your favorite thing about programs in this thread!

83
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: ODYSSEY HOUSE/ CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:19:07 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Sorry, but programs like Odyssey House remain under suspicion.

You see, I believe the first post before i believe yours...

For two reasons:

1. Programs lie all the time (you could be one of their shills, here to implement "damage control".)

2. Often it takes time for people who survived programs to see around their own denial of abuse.


1. Troubled teens lie all the time. Enough said

2. If you were abused, you'd know it instantly. What this really means in the context of fornits, is they hope to convince you that you were abused, according to the meaningless, watered down version of the word "abuse" that is used on fornits.

84
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: ODYSSEY HOUSE/ CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:17:29 PM »
Quote from: "danaguesswho"
Quote from: "twopakim"
I am going to talk to a lawyer about the hundreds of us were emotionally & in some cases , phsically abused by the tactics of Odyssey House. I lived In The Hampton, NH one in the late 80's and was mentally TORTURED by group and individual repremands, encounter groups and "copping marathons " where you werent allowed to sllep for 72 hours while the group "copped" to alll the BAD things they had done and got away with . One of the couselors were dismissed upon admitting she had a "sexual" affair with one of the male patients ! I will be back in here to update you . If you would like to contact me , feel free to at : [email protected] .
~kim
NO physical abuse EVER EVER EVER went on there....I know for a fact.....and if you want to peruse this I will defend it to the hilt....I love that program ....I was there in the same time frame as you  and I saw NOOOOOOOOOO abuse whatsoever......your not even in your right frame of mind to say that....think again ...

Welcome to fornits. I was also in a program and I never saw any abuse, and they treated me well and helped me a lot. I get a lot of crap from a lot of the posters here for saying that, as I'm sure you will too, if you keep posting here. The people who post here are disgruntled people who went to programs 20-30 years ago, and have created a group of anti treatment extremists here that complain that all programs and drug treatment is abusive. The posters here are only interested in intimidating people who hold pro treatment viewpoints, and dedicate their life to slandering treatment in general. Fornits is not representive of reality, they have created their own version of reality here, so be prepared for some pretty far out statements directed your way. Hope you stick around and post, your opinions are needed here to counter a lot of the negativity.

85
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:12:15 PM »
So it's society and the world that are wrong, and the ten or so enlightened people that post here, they are the only people to know the truth? Or could it perhaps be the other way around, that the world, and society is right, and the few disgruntled people posting here are incorrect. Hmm, I wonder which is could be?

86
Open Free for All / Re: Morgan
« on: September 23, 2010, 09:55:16 PM »
You got to look at it from their perspective. These are people who have never been in a program, so they come onto fornits and read the posts from people who had negative experiences in programs, and assume everybody has an experience as bad as that. Those of us who have been in programs know it's not as evil as some people portray it, and that good things also happen in programs. This rhetorical overreach of the posters here engage in has caused an unwanted side effect, which is to enrage these good hearted, yet naive people into an angry mob mentality, people who will do anything to keep people out of the supposed "evil" programs, as they are described here. If my only experience with programs was what I read on fornits, I would also agree with the extreme tactics. The ends justify the means, so long as the teen does not end up in a program, that is all that is important. This extreme position, is the result of people here only focusing on the negative, and portraying programs as evil to teengers as say concentration camps were to the Jews. So this sort of action does not surprise me at all, and it's not a coincidence it's people who haven't been in programs perpetrating it. Those of us who have been in programs, know the difference between what is said on fornits, and what true reality awaits teens entering a program.

87
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 23, 2010, 02:01:33 PM »
My definition of whether something is abusive is, whether the perpetrator of the action could be arrested for what they did. I never saw anything at the program that rose to this level. That is why people here don't just call the cops on programs, because what happens in programs for the most part is legal, even if people here want to relabel it abuse. The term abuse on fornits is relative, I choose to use the legal definition, of whether somebody could be prosecuted and arrested for what they did. I think to myself, if I had a cell phone in the program, could I have called the police and would they have intervened and arrested the staff, or therapist during the group therapy? The answer is no, I would have probably got a ticket for abusing the 911 system if I had called from the program.

88
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Name One Good Program
« on: September 23, 2010, 01:55:55 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Psychologically, there is a HUGE difference between a program you have chosen, as an adult, to enter, and a program that your parents or other authority  chose for you against your will, from which there is no escape.
This is the main reason why, I believe, adult programs can be effective and teen programs generally are not.  Even when they succeed, the kid ends up like Max, no individuality, no mind of their own.


So you must be aware that the admin of this forum did exactly what you described, entered an adult program of their own choosing and signed themselves in as an adult. It's good to see you have decided for Psy that his programs was effective, and the one's for teens are not. Lucky for us we have people like you who can make that distinction for everyone else. Guess we'll have to find a new admin then, right? Because according to the great wisdom of ShadyAcres, Psy went to an effective program, and all of us who had good experiences in a program as teens must be full of it.

Talking about no individuality or mind of their own, welcome to fornits. The reason I am so hated here is precisely because I have a mind of my own, and have the ability to come to my own conclusions on my experience in the program. Most posters here mold their own beliefs to fit in with the group, so much for individuality.

Look. You are probably white, is that right? You also probably come from a relatively well off family, if they could afford to send you to a program. Have you noticed there aren't a lot of kids who were sent to juvenile hall and abused by guards posting here? It seems to be mostly limited to rich white kids, who are in a desperate need of something to blame why their life turned out the way it did. So you can throw a pity party here, and some of the resident victims might even agree with you, and support you in your quest to find something to blame. But in the end of the day, the truth is that you can't let go of your anger because you aren't really angry at the program, or your parents, or society. You are angry at yourself, for getting yourself into a situation that you couldn't handle. Be honest, did you cry yourself to sleep at the program the first night?

It can feel good to blame other people,and most importantly to label yourself a victim. But you are a product of your own decisions in life, which have led you to fornits which is nothing more than a bunch of spoiled rich kids whining about how they got sent to boarding school, and the truth is nobody cares but the other self absorbed, self described victims that post here. So let's all hold hands, and embrace our group victim status, and hopefully somebody will listen. Have you ever considered writing a letter to your congressman?

89
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What illegal drugs would you legalize?
« on: September 22, 2010, 12:10:53 PM »
If the US ends the drug war, which I do believe will happen eventually, then there will be a big increase in the number of treatment centers, and the health aspect of treating addiction will probably receive some of the government funding now going to police, jails, etc. So when we talk about why and how the drug war should end, it's all important to discuss the topic of the impacts that it might have on society, and the solutions that might work at preventing or treating some of the side effects of free access to strong intoxicants. I don't really believe the studies about people saying they won't use illegal drugs if they were made legal. When corporations are allowed to sell these products, it will be in their financial interest in expanding their customer base, which involves heavy marketing. If cocaine and heroin is produced by professionals and companies, then they will probably be much safer to use, and the dosage much easier to predict and overdoses less likely, which is a good thing. But making illegal drugs safer, and easier to access, and acceptable in society will mean that more people use them. To ignore this is to ignore human nature. Will employers still drug test or will that become illegal and an invasion of privacy? What age will someone be able to buy cocaine from the corner store? How many OxyContins would a person be allowed to buy everyday?

With the end of the drug war, will come a boon in the treatment industry, and it will probably be government funded. I do believe the treatment industry is much more effective in dealing with these problems than the justice system, for obvious reasons. But if people here are so anti-treatment and anti-AA, I am curious what they propose to do with the many new people who become addicted to the very addictive drugs listed in this list we all voted on. There will be many unintended side effects that must be dealt with, and failing to address them will mean the continuation of the drug war because people will be afraid of these effects if there is not a rational solution to offer as an alternative to the existing system.

90
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« on: September 22, 2010, 12:02:41 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
The programs do seem like a way to keep the kid alive until they have time to grow up some and mature out of the more extreme behaviors.


This is all my parents ever wanted from the program they told me when I got home. I had already accomplished the insane and jail part before setting foot in a private program, and was quickly on the path to the third option without a care about myself or how this impacted my family. This isn't something I'm very proud of now, but I actually enjoyed the thought of causing my family deep pain with my own death, so it wasn't something I was trying to avoid. I was actively pursuing it with a mixture of anger and carelessness, and would have accomplished that goal had I not been forced into a private program for a while. I don't think it's abusive to lock a kid up when they have proven they are intent on destroying themselves. I wasn't in a rational frame of mind then, and would have never consented to it. So if private programs did not exist, I would have surely died. That's why I say the program saved my life, because it's true. They saved my life, against my own wishes, which makes it all the more pathetic, but at least there are people out there who will do this for parents. I think the option is a tool that some parents need. Perhaps parents use it unnecessarily out of fear, but if the option didn't exist at all, it would probably cost many more lives than are lost inside of programs, which is also sad.

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