Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

On 2005-09-20 17:51:00, tom s. wrote:

"I don't recall a Dupont or any reps from anywhere.It seems in the time between my two seed sojourns they had absorbed a lot of new members,old staffers returned,and new ones knighted.Now I recall that Mavis Was there,so that means Happy was too.There were a few entrusted from the group to lead meetings and were possibly acting staff members.Renee was a tough n.y.B,but had an enduring sense of humor.Rick and Linda were a married staff couple of mediocre temperment.Rick was pretty funny.Linda was nice.Charley Oats appeared to be deeply sincere about learning human nature and discussing his lifes' mistakes in those terms.He was a great group leader and a tough staff member.He had a wiley way about him as though the nature of true deviousness was awash in his system and an incredibly believable infectious smile.His eyes twinkled when he did grin,but I could not pinpoint the something in myself that distrusted him.There was an indescribeable edge he had or exuded that perhaps not everyone picked up on.That feeling always made me darkly aware of his presence.He had his heart grabbed by Darlene who was just as deeply sly and a discussion leader and staffer of rank.She was tough and perhaps fair and reminded me of howdy doody-red hair-freckles-howdys'face-what can I say.I heard her and Charley got married.I even heard that they went and shot up together.I can't even imagine what that would have done to their relationship.There was a Maureen also.There was this young lady named Donna who by her good nature alone I think slid quietly into the upper echelon.We were all singing "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling"led by Art of course,and he was looking through the crowd inquisitively like someone trying to pinpoint a bacon-cheeseburger with their nose-and I realized what he was searching for.Quite a few of us caught on.It was the unmistakeable voice of an Irish Angel.My god what a voice.Art asked her if she wouldn't mind singing it for us all alone and she obliged.I gotta tell you I had goosebumps and tears!She was tall with dark hair and a very kind face and a nice disposition.I would love to hear her sing again.I believe she became a staff member,but I bet it was too strenuous or should I say her strength probably overcame the piousness necessary to continue in that mode.I draw a blank on other staffers but I know they were there.     "

On 2005-09-17 00:48:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Tom S.

           I remember the house on 3rd ave.  in 1970

Did Pam  have long blond hair ?  , she was very beautiful from what I remember. I was about 16  at that time as well time and they served free meals,  which attracted a lot of the young street hippies at that time

Do you rmember Maureen, she was like a staff member,  and Hap and Mavis, I remember a wedding there as well, it was very Billy Jack like, that was a great discription. People came and went as they pleased. No one tried to make me cut my hair , lots of  hugging and genuine caring, it was a very special time. There was a record player up front with several of rock  albums .  I  remember   Maureen  getiing down to "Mississippi Queen" by Mountain.  I remember telling my friends about this cool place called the seed.  Every time some one knew came in we really wanted to help them, I remember really caring about everybody back then.  My friend Tom W. turned me on to the seed back then and he was only 14 at the time, we both Just walked in, and we were greeted with open arms, and of course a free meal , we used t hitch hike to the meetings from hollywood and some of the time someone would ride us home.  [ This Message was edited by: rjfro22 on 2005-09-17 00:54 ]"

On 2005-11-22 14:54:00, Antigen wrote:

"I'm glad you came along too, landyh. I don't know anybody else but me who was involved at such a young age. Now, I never sat in on group, far less on those vaunted bar room stools (btw, they had those at Straight too... anyone else find that ironic?) But I was in on the endless clatches at Denny's after open meeing on SR 84 and a good bit of Programming in our home, around the diningroom table and whenever I tagged along w/ my brother and the New Crusty Nostrils.



I definitely remember the rush of having grown ups bow to my impressive "Awareness". Looking back, of course, I was such an obnoxious prig! But, what's done is done.



Also, I think you probably can answer some questions about the way things were before the ominous 1313 Andrews ave (well, 1315, actually... but the other way sounds better, uh?) There's a legend that the first group started out on Art's yacht tied up at the Playboy Mansion or some such. Any truth to that? Cause the way I remember Art's telling of it, he had started getting the building ready to open before the first Seedling ever arrived and found that his entire work crew were all druggies. So he sat them down and started feeding them beans or something along those lines. Which story is closer to the facts?

If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?

--Felton Manifestation

"

On 2005-11-22 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think I remember you landy.  You were a cute little kid and a smart one to boot if my memory serves me right."

On 2005-11-22 13:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Blond Hair and alot of it I think..."

On 2005-06-17 06:52:00, GregFL wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-03-17 07:52:00, Anonymous wrote:







I also know from reading the posts that Greg hated every minute in the seed and has alot of pent up anger still from his time there and I respect that....but when someone comes along with wonderful carefree memories of love and peace from the seed....Greg comes down on them with Cult this and Cult that.



This forum should be a place that we can say what we want to without the shit hitting the fan and offending someone.

Man, somehow I missed this and never addressed it.



Anon, you are just wrong about your perceptions. While I did resent being put in the seed, there was a period of time while I was there that I bought into the whole seedling thing.  That passed quickly once I graduated.



I am not angry at my seed experience. Hell, it was over 30 years ago.  I moderate this forum for the sole purpose of discussion because I think for a lot of people it is important to confront what happened to them, and it is fun discussing issues with people with a common background.



Anon, this is a place where you can say whatever you want, but all forums, and this one included, have people that don't agree.  Expect that on a forum.  All I ask is we all respect each other and avoid personal attacks.



I do have strong opinions on this type of "treatment" for juveniles, but my opinion is just that, no more or less valid than yours or anyone else's here.  I will continue to express my opinion when the mood moves me.



 I wish you knew how hard I have worked to foster an environment of inclusion of everybody that went to the Seed on all sides of the issue and not just make this a soapbox for one side or the other. But that vision of the SDF requires participation and understanding of the goal of this website, and forums in general require tough skin sometimes because people openly express various opinions and even get testy with each other, and not everybody is able to carry on that type of conversation.



That being said, I am proud of the way the people in this forum have kind of become a community of people, not divided along pro-seed or anti-seed sentiments.



I hope you are also enjoying this forum and hope you participate often regardless of how you view your time spent in your childhood warehouse.



 "

On 2005-03-10 11:49:00, GregFL wrote:

"There is some dissention on this board and even a thread of incredulty when it is mentioned that the seed used cultic methods.



Here is an account with my comments in parenthesis of how someone used to be recruited into the moonies back in the seventies. It may have changed or maybe not...



                 ________

Generally, the recruit meets organizational officials over a quiet dinner. Moon is not mentioned, religion is seldom broached. While you eat, you listen to their lectures and prayers and share in their singing, the recruiters constantly smile throughout the encounter. The youth is asked to attend a three-day workshop. (this is the common deceptive recruiting technique, in the seed it was done at the 'intake' and after wearing you down it was suggested to you to  "just sign yourself in for three days and then you can leave if you want).



The first recognition individuals have when arriving for the three day workshops, is that the followers of Moon regard each other as a family....(no comment necessary)



The recruit is not left alone.(right!) As the neighbors of the Moonie encampment in Pope Valley have attested to, they walk in pairs.(YES!) ... It becomes immediately apparent to you that you are not to be left alone and that all 'spiritual children'(or in our case, Seedlings) have someone of their opposite sex(for seedlings, same sex) from the family assigned to them. If you should wander off by yourself, someone will follow you and politely ask you to rejoin the group.(or as the case with the seed, tackle you to the ground and drag you back to the group) You are even escorted to the rest room." (same!)The book continues, "You also learn that there is a rigidly held schedule. There are specific times for eating, exercising, playing, singing, listening to lectures and discussing them.(and no, absolutely no, exceptions to the schedule) You are separated into small groups, led by a team leader who has to have perfect control, not approximate control.(yep!) From the beginning, the leader directs his or her group like a kindergarten teacher, telling you when to do this or that."(and how to talk, what to say and when and how to say it under the threat of punishment).



If the leaders of the group should slacken in their enthusiasm or diligence, they are sternly reprimanded.(in the seed, started over or demoted to junior staff) The recruit is rarely permitted to engage in any casual conversation with anyone.(in the seed, never) They are only allowed to speak about spiritual things(or in our case, seed approved things when called on) within a structured framework. Creativity is frowned upon, conformity is stressed.(and required) "All day you are bombarded by ideas and concepts," (12 hour per day structured groups) states The Puppet Master.(this was a book written on the moonies) "There is little relaxation, and so your resistance is low.(no relaxation at all at the seed). When you refrain from sharing or resist in any way, you are met with benevolent concern.(in the seed, confrontation) Peer approval is an important technique which subtly tells you to conform. The family members aim directly at your most vulnerable points: the need to belong, to feel useful and to feel love.(same as the seed) Throughout the workshop you are flooded with affection, hugs, pats, hand-holding and smiles."(same as the seed, but usually only when you were in compliance)



Recruits react to the regimental control by trying to please.(as a coping method, same in the seed) "But, you quickly learn that the only way to please is to conform,"(completely and absolutely) The Puppet Master states. "You succumb many times to small acts of conformity without realizing it.(yes!) You feel guilty when you hold back, and you are told that wanting to be alone is a symptom of fear and alienation." (being alone is never an option in the seed)It is at this point that the recruit is asked to join the movement.(in the seed, encouraged to 'work his program') The family member who has spent all the time with the specific recruit (oldcomer in the seed) will beg and plead for the recruit to stay.(and "get straight) There will even be tears along with promises. They will continue to implore until you decide to join," (get straight, and if they fail, the seed would assign someone else to work on you)The Puppet Master states.



After joining the Moonies, the recruit will be given about two weeks of adjustment. They call it "losing", a period when the recruit's desires become nothing. Recruits are allowed to return home for one visit (earn the right to speak to your parents at group), but they must be accompanied or tailed by a Moonie. After that one visit, the recruit's communication with his natural family is reduced to mainly correspondence, and that diminishes rapidly.(this is a difference in voluntary cults because the family in essense joins the seed cult with you. If they don't, your contact is severely limited or forbidden as mine was with my mother)  "When you do step out into the world, it is a shock, a cultural shock," states The Puppet Master. "You are taught that everyone not in the movement is under the influence of Satan (or as with the seed..'unaware or druggies') and that you should mistrust them..... no doubt they are trying to take your mind away. You begin to fear the world and those in it. Thus you become dependent on the group for love and positive reinforcement. After alienation is complete, you are told that you can leave if you want."



After the "losing period" the regimentation becomes even more rigid. The recruit is required to adhere to even more demanding workshop schedules. They sleep five or six hours a day.(same in the seed, and studies show teenagers need much more sleep or they cannot function correctly) Their diet consists of starchy foods and low proteins.(early stages of the seed and when there for weekends) Often they fast for many days.(no fasting, but extremely limited proteins and liquids in early stages of the seed) The recruit must now fundraise and recruit others.(absolutely but recruiting was done thru parents in the seed) The recruit must sing and pray before meals, before classes, before work, before evening gatherings. Most songs are traditional or Korean hymns. Alcohol and drugs are forbidden.







 :eek: "