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Messages - Whooter

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5431
Aspen Education Group / Re: Clinical Study Results
« on: September 23, 2009, 04:11:28 PM »
Quote from: "John C."
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote

More results to come!!

I for one would like to see more detail.  Did they release any graphs or tables?

Here is a link to one of the sites which has results in Graph form (bottom of page):

Link to Study Results

Hope this helps.

I was curious on the results that the boys stress level increased post program but the girls did not as much. Do you think this is related to integrating back into the home at all?  They commented on this themselves, but no cause was attributed.

My guess would be that boys are not as social as girls so they dont handle the transition back into the family and meeting new friends as easily as girls do, so it is a more stressful for them.  I found that interesting too.

The other interesting thing was, did you notice that the girls performed better in most areas until they hit post program and then the boys performed better.  So the program seems to be more effective longer for boys than girls.  Did you notice this also?

5432
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 03:09:08 PM »
Quote from: "I'm not logging in to chat up a troll but I have an idea"
I would ask why you two are going on analyzing the “study”/self-serving propaganda of a program’s treatment when that same program undermined the validity of this “study” by stating in court that they do not provide any treatment…but then I realized you’re just that one pathetic program troll –talking to yourself. This really must be a tough time for you troll.

Idea! Let’s send a copy of Aspen’s statements (in court documents) to Consumer affairs etc. and then we can send Aspen’s “study” and other related misrepresentations to the original presiding judge!

What I typically do is send the letter (with hard copied documents) and then follow up with an email with the attachements so that they have it from  both sources.
Consumer affairs and to the judges office (find out who he works with also so the letter and documents can be shared).

Then wait a few months.

5433
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:45:01 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"

Clinical -- Involving or based on direct observation of the patient


Wait - you mean "student", don't you?  You need to read what Aspen's lawyers said again.  No kid in an Aspen program can be called a "patient", now can they?   So your definition of clinical was taken from a source describing legitimate health care, not a school like Aspen.


Patient -- the recipient of any of various personal services.

5434
Aspen Education Group / Clinical Study Results
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:34:26 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Aspen Education Group has participated in multiple independent research studies to ensure that we provide the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models within each of our programs. As the leading provider of therapeutic education programs for youth and young adults, we feel it is our responsibility to measure the effectiveness of our methods and the sustainability of our results.

Aspen Education Group’s Outdoor Behavior Healthcare (OBH) programs, also referred to as wilderness therapy, participated in two long-term, independent research studies, most recently from March 2006 through October 2008. One hundred-ninety adolescents, ages 14-17, enrolled in three different wilderness therapy programs were assessed at admission; one week after they started treatment; graduation from the wilderness therapy program; three months after graduation; and 12 months after graduation. Adolescent participants in wilderness therapy programs experienced reported struggling with issues such as substance use, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations, ADHD and academic performance....

More results to come!!

I for one would like to see more detail.  Did they release any graphs or tables?

Here is a link to one of the sites which has results in Graph form (bottom of page):

Link to Study Results

Hope this helps.

I was curious on the results that the boys stress level increased post program but the girls did not as much. Do you think this is related to integrating back into the home at all?  They commented on this themselves, but no cause was attributed.

5435
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:08:55 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Guest"
Aspen Education Group the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models within each of our programs. As the leading provider of therapeutic education programs for youth and young adults,

Why use terms like "clinical" and "therapeutic practices" if they are not a mental health program?  Isn't this deceptive marketing, if not flat-out misrepresentation of what Aspen is?   Licensed staff would be necessary to implement "the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models".  

This is getting down to it.  Now that Aspen has copped to not providing mental health programs they need to be held to that description.

No, you need to understand the terms a little more.  You dont have to be a mental health program to use terms like "clinical" or "Therapeutic practices".  You could give the kid a massage once a week or a hot mineral bath and market yourself as therapeutic.  As far as Clinical --- all you  need to do is watch the kid 24/7.

Clinical -- Involving or based on direct observation of the patient

The methods depend on the model that you use.  If you can impliment the model successfully without licensed staff then its fine.  But presently, as a minimum, the kids see a licesnsed therapist about once a week and report back to the child therapist at home or the parents.

5436
Aspen Education Group / Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« on: September 23, 2009, 01:31:01 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
who's "they"? Studies from "they" are bullshit.

The only entity who really SHOULD be doing studies about these places are consumer advocacy groups.

I agree, but if they are not interested in doing it then they need to hire an independent place to do it for them.  Its better than not doing any study.

5437
Aspen Education Group / Re: John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org
« on: September 23, 2009, 01:27:51 PM »
Quote from: "MikeK"
Quote from: "Guest"
What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.

Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying.  We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child.  This can only be determined by a third party.........  there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out?  What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?

Then obviously the cause isnt the parents.  The at-risk child needs to get help locally first to see if they can get them back to school.

5438
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 01:16:49 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Aspen Education Group has participated in multiple independent research studies to ensure that we provide the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models within each of our programs. As the leading provider of therapeutic education programs for youth and young adults, we feel it is our responsibility to measure the effectiveness of our methods and the sustainability of our results.

Aspen Education Group’s Outdoor Behavior Healthcare (OBH) programs, also referred to as wilderness therapy, participated in two long-term, independent research studies, most recently from March 2006 through October 2008. One hundred-ninety adolescents, ages 14-17, enrolled in three different wilderness therapy programs were assessed at admission; one week after they started treatment; graduation from the wilderness therapy program; three months after graduation; and 12 months after graduation. Adolescent participants in wilderness therapy programs experienced reported struggling with issues such as substance use, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations, ADHD and academic performance....

More results to come!!

I for one would like to see more detail.  Did they release any graphs or tables?

Here is a link to one of the sites which has results in Graph form (bottom of page):

Link to Study Results

Hope this helps.

5439
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:56:10 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Aspen Education Group has participated in multiple independent research studies to ensure that we provide the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models within each of our programs. As the leading provider of therapeutic education programs for youth and young adults, we feel it is our responsibility to measure the effectiveness of our methods and the sustainability of our results.

Aspen Education Group’s Outdoor Behavior Healthcare (OBH) programs, also referred to as wilderness therapy, participated in two long-term, independent research studies, most recently from March 2006 through October 2008. One hundred-ninety adolescents, ages 14-17, enrolled in three different wilderness therapy programs were assessed at admission; one week after they started treatment; graduation from the wilderness therapy program; three months after graduation; and 12 months after graduation. Adolescent participants in wilderness therapy programs experienced reported struggling with issues such as substance use, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations, ADHD and academic performance....

More results to come!!

I for one would like to see more detail.  Did they release any graphs or tables?

5440
Aspen Education Group / Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:54:05 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Castle, I would like to see more studies done also.  Without the studies the individual programs can only have the prospective parents talk to those parents and kids who have already been through it to try to gage if it is the right thing for their son or daughter.  This is okay but the school will only give you the names of the parents who did well so there is no way of knowing how many kids are successful and how many are not.
It is good to see these studies finally starting to get done.  I would like to see more detail but it is better than what we have had over the past decade or so.

Does anyone know if they are doing another one on their boarding schools?

I heard that they have completed (or near completed) a study on their residential programs.  Its a big study that included more than 500 kids I am told.  I just hope they include more detail to the public when they release it instead of just the results.

5441
Aspen Education Group / Re: John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:50:01 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.

Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying.  We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child.  This can only be determined by a third party.........  there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out?  What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?

5442
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:47:03 PM »
Well they seem to be doing pretty good based on independent studies of a few of their programs:

Here take a look:

After attending an Aspen Outdoor Behavioral Health program:

Mental health issues including stress, depression and anxiety are significantly improved. OBH treatment helped reduce stress, depression and anxiety in teens, especially in those with more extreme levels, with continued reduction shown at the six-month follow-up assessment.

Substance abuse and dependence is significantly reduced, with results lasting through the 12-month follow-up. Students experienced substance-related pathology within the clinically significant and elevated range pretreatment, but symptoms fell within a normal range upon graduation. Most importantly, these results were sustained through the three and 12 month follow-up assessments.

Social conflict and aggressive behaviors decrease. Reduction of these self-defeating behaviors continues post-graduation, with greatest improvement shown at the 12-month follow-up assessment.

5443
Aspen Education Group / Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:37:36 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Quote
The studies are not intended to sway anyone’s opinion here on fornits...


The only opinions I give a flying fuck about are the opinions of parents (i.e. "customers"). I stand to benefit zero from a study, regardless of what it says. Im not a parent, and Ive been off the duck farm near 20 years now. I don't need a study to tell me what I went through. All of that is over.

However, WE (the collective we) need a study done, because parents keep sending kids there. These places make glowing promises. They pay PR people and stage their little "studies" which contain about as much science as a program contains certified, competent staff. There's testimony along both sides of the fence, and you know what? It's shit. It's all shit. You want to tell me it was great for your kid? You want to say you were abused? You want to recount how it saved your life? Fuck all of you. That's not worth shit. It's goddamn personal testimony, and it's crap, and no parent is going to listen to you unless it supports their preconceived notion. Fact is, when a parent is looking to send a kid away, it's rare that they change their mind. (It happens, but its rare.) Kids are property. Loved property, but still, property. Politicians are ass-suckers and I dont give a fuck what they do. (The less, the  better) All of this is in the hands of parents, present and future.

This is contingent on something that can be measured and is beyond dispute. "Success" is a subjective piece of bullshit, and that is not what is to be measured in a study. I don't even want to hear the  motherfucking word. Any study of this that involves the concept of "success" or "failure" is immediately suspect IMO.


Nothing means anything until it can be determined if you are getting your money's worth... if the seller delivers on his promise. People take out second mortgages on their homes for this shit, for fuck's sake. They blow their kids college money. They liquidate their retirement funds.

I make no qualitative statement about this, I'm just saying it's how things are done in this country.


So lets find out.

Castle, I would like to see more studies done also.  Without the studies the individual programs can only have the prospective parents talk to those parents and kids who have already been through it to try to gage if it is the right thing for their son or daughter.  This is okay but the school will only give you the names of the parents who did well so there is no way of knowing how many kids are successful and how many are not.
It is good to see these studies finally starting to get done.  I would like to see more detail but it is better than what we have had over the past decade or so.

Does anyone know if they are doing another one on their boarding schools?

5444
Aspen Education Group / Re: Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:25:25 PM »
Aspen Education Group has participated in multiple independent research studies to ensure that we provide the most cutting-edge, evidence-based therapeutic practices and clinical models within each of our programs. As the leading provider of therapeutic education programs for youth and young adults, we feel it is our responsibility to measure the effectiveness of our methods and the sustainability of our results.

Aspen Education Group’s Outdoor Behavior Healthcare (OBH) programs, also referred to as wilderness therapy, participated in two long-term, independent research studies, most recently from March 2006 through October 2008. One hundred-ninety adolescents, ages 14-17, enrolled in three different wilderness therapy programs were assessed at admission; one week after they started treatment; graduation from the wilderness therapy program; three months after graduation; and 12 months after graduation. Adolescent participants in wilderness therapy programs experienced reported struggling with issues such as substance use, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations, ADHD and academic performance....

More results to come!!

5445
Aspen Education Group / Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« on: September 23, 2009, 09:52:17 AM »
If they are a licensed therapist then they need to adhere to HIPPA requirements.  If they are not licensed then they do not.  Its pretty cut and dried.

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