Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

On 2005-06-16 10:59:00, thepatriot wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-06-16 09:01:00, Paul wrote:


"What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?





When someone does get AIDS it is your goverment


with your tax dollars that pays for it.





Do you really think kids don't know about sex,


when you ask them and they deny it? Seriously now.





From what I hear you want to schools to not educate


about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.





Then when someone is diagnosed with a serious and persistant mental illness and they figure out that it started when they where younger you would not suggest that perhaps a screening would have helped this person. You would be satisfied the signs where all there, but the schools where not allowed to address the issue?





Why not? Because one family decided to not open their mail, while the rest of the town received their information on the TeenScreen, that you want


to throw out the whole test. Smart, very smart.





My illness would have shown up earlier in a screening. I wish they had them then, and I support them now. A couple of false positives can easily be figured out in a follow up appointment. These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.





Regarding sex education, so what if they learn these things in school, isn't it better that learning it from the kids in the neighborhood?





How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?"

Ok so lets teach 6th graders about oral sex, give me a break WTF. Thats the problem with our education system, they have forgotten about Math,Science ,Reading instead they are more interested in teaching your 12 year old how to give a blow job, how to masturbate(like any kid can't figure that out on his own). Or the big one why Suzi has two mommies. And they wonder why the system is a failure."

If a child is raped by an older student/or other, and forced to perform oral sex, and the kid doesn't know what happened to them, or are told by the rapist to think that what they (the child) did was wrong, then you have a problem. Not when schools are trying to be responsible and reasonable when some parents just aren't. Kids are exposed to sex and sexually related conversation starting around 12 years of age (many times much younger) by older kids, their peers or siblings and 6th grade is not too young to understand sex. Knowledge is a powerful thing, and sex education (in my opinion) can protect many a child.  

As far as screening goes - like Paul said, what if early detection helps the child greatly in the long run? Not every government program for children out there is a horrible awful program driven by a giant money-making-monster-machine. Early screening of a child with a serious mental disorder could help them get a foothold in what might be a life-long affliction for them.

I for one trust and believe in the science of psychiatry. Psychiatry has provided tools in my life that have been helpful and growth producing. I'm grateful for the self-awareness I've gained through the years of seeing a good psychoanalyst. Just because I was caught up in a terrible money making scam like all the programs still out there today, doesn't mean I see all psychiatric approaches as bad too.

Brainwashing/cultic-snake-oil-remedies are bad, but neurology and psychiatry are both fascinating and illuminating. Drug companies are evil, but the scientific objective is to help, not hurt. Yesss some doctors rely too much on meds and less on time with theirs patients, and yes it?s hard to find decent help (good shrinks are sometimes hard to come by) but many psychologist/psychiatrists actually do help.

In all honestly, I think most adults could use a good psychoanalyst in their lives.

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'>Mark Twain

_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke

Obsession with wanting people to understand something they may know nothing about? Seriously, big deal... Isn?t that what most program victims want as well? Educating the general public of the dangers and truths about cults and cultic practices in our nation?

I find his posts informative -- I don't get what all the flack is about.
 

 ::
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke

Thankfully, no. I only remember singing "Cats in the Cradle" and "Lean on Me" in group. I don't remember singing any Cat Stevens either.

I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python

_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke

On 2005-06-19 22:06:00, linchpin wrote:

"Drinking a beer listening to Goatwhore...so..

 FUCK YOU!

 Reagan...get your ass back to the desert!
"

A friend of mine (the bass player) who's band played for my daughter's bd party the other night had a Goatwhore t-shirt on. :smile:

I thought it was cute how the streamers kept on getting caught up in the guitarist's feet and arms. :grin:

They were really sweet and they played for beer!

When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco.  Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.

1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop

On 2005-06-20 16:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My opinion (you asked for it): I would suggest solicitation of opinions outside of this site.  Most here have had horrible experiences with a horribly coersive program and have a "slight" bias against behavior modification through anything guised as "therapy".



Analogy:  No 9/11 survivor or family member would be differentiate between "good" Al Quaeda vs "bad".  No one of Jewish heritage would say that there were "good" nazis and "bad" ones.  



Your own findings subsequent to researching the facilities of interest should be much more valuable than any information you glean from vets of STRAIGHT and/or similiar programs.



Personally speaking, I don't endorse any programs as I do not spend any time researching nor making judgements on who is good, bad, or indifferent.  I don't have a troubled teen that is a candidate for such programs, and I am highly allergic (secondary to my own shitty experience in such a program) to anything that modifies a persons choice of behavior.



My closing opinion, if you really want to make a difference in the life of a child and they decisions they make?  Be a teacher and nix the idea of a wilderness therapy.

 :nworthy:

To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.

--Edmund A. Opitz

On 2005-06-16 05:26:00, leleNtom wrote:



 what is the bill about? if i knew maybe i could sign it. i ve been hearin alot about it, but im sorry to say i know nothing about it.

When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.
-- Gary Lloyd

"

The bill:

--------------------------------------------------------

George Miller  

NEWS from
Congressman George Miller
7th District, California
Committee on Education & the Workforce, Ranking Member
Committee on Resources, Member
Democratic Policy Committee, Chairman

Representative Miller Introduces Legislation to Curb
Child Abuse in Residential Treatment Programs
Bill would affect facilities both in U.S. and abroad

Wednesday, April 20, 2005

WASHINGTON, DC -- Representative George Miller (D-California) today announced new legislation to combat child abuse at residential treatment programs in the U.S. and abroad.

?There is no excuse for placing children in unlicensed programs with badly trained and abusive staff members, which could lead to mental, physical, and sexual abuse,? said Miller, the senior Democrat on the Education and the Workforce Committee. ?It is truly frightening when the very people entrusted to care for and protect children are actually the ones who endanger them. Residential programs for children should be licensed and meet reasonable safety and staff training standards.?

In November 2003, Miller asked then-Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate the World Wide Associations of Specialty Programs (WWASP), an organization with several campuses in the U.S. and abroad that provides ?behavior modification? programs for troubled youth, for allegations of child abuse and human rights violations.

Miller first requested the investigation after The New York Times ran a series of articles containing the allegations against WWASP. Despite repeated follow-up requests, however, the Department of Justice refused to investigate. Meanwhile, allegations of abuse continued to surface in published news reports. In December 2004 and January 2005, news agencies reported that five U.S.-owned residential treatment centers in Mexico had been closed by local authorities for numerous health violations and for placing children in punishment cells.

In an effort to deal once and for all with the problem of abuse at residential treatment programs for children, Miller today introduced the ?End Institutional Abuse Against Children Act.? The bill would:


provide $50 million in funding to states to support the licensing of child residential treatment programs. States would have to monitor the programs regularly to ensure their compliance with licensing requirements;
establish federal civil and criminal penalties for the abuse of children in residential treatment programs;
expand federal authority to regulate programs located overseas but run by U.S. companies and provide civil penalties for program operators that violate federal regulations; and
require the State Department to report any abuse of American children overseas.
Residential treatment (or ?behavior modification?) programs are intended to help children with behavioral problems, like substance abuse. Miller stressed that many of these programs provide safe, valuable services to children and their families. But he said that stronger legislation was clearly necessary to ensure the safety of all children in such programs ? and particularly in programs overseas, where organizations have moved their facilities to avoid existing U.S. laws.
?Parents are sending their children to these programs because of a promise that they will help resolve difficult behavioral issues, like substance abuse,? said Miller. ?But the way kids have been treated at some of these facilities would make any parent shudder.?

April is National Child Abuse Prevention Month.
 
http://www.nospank.net/g-miller.htm

I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=AR5564&aid=10247' target='_new'>* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *

_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke

On 2005-06-16 07:56:00, leleNtom wrote:

"hey how come all these kids in here who are against the program know so much freaking physcology stuff? are yall professionals? i mean  do u study and break the  program of a wwasp program down... see what it is... and learn how its operated? then spend ur time on sites like this is proove to people what u  know? im just curious. what is it?

Government can do something for the people only in proportion as it can do something to the people
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson.

"

Because intelligent people like to learn about themselves. When a person is victimized by abuse or a traumatic experience, it is helpful to understand what happened to them in order to heal from the experience. Knowledge is power.

I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist