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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I have a question for people who attended alcoholic anonymous meetings.  Do licensed chemical dependency counselors oversee these meetings?

Not where i am from. But in fairness i have heard that some 12 step based treatment centres have more professional staff

If you're such a hot house flower that you wind up "damaged" by A.A., you are not long for this world.

I hate reading here about the 'evil'  A.A  because these statements are used to invalidate the claims of victims of the teen torture chambers regarding how they were damaged and abused. People take the statements of individuals and extrapolate them onto the group they associate with. That's how people think, like it or not. And the conclusion people will draw, sometimes, because of the incessant A.A. hysteria is that survivors' claims of brainwashing and damage in Synanon prisons cannot be taken seriously. If A.A. is damaging, then pretty much everything is damaging, and, as such, Synanon style prisons cannot really fairly be held responsible for everyone's overly intense sensitivities.

And, heads up: Reformed appears to be "suck it" and "queef," who on another thread is reporting  "fornits posters" allegations of abuse in the "specialty schools" cannot be beleived because "they" think A.A. is abuse.

The thing to remember is that all posters speak only for themselves and not any "group" regarding their beliefs about A.A., religion, Mothman, or any thing else. There is no "fornits posters" belief system.

I get what you are arguing here. I have read some pretty disturbing things about these youth rehabs and boarding schools and I would not say that AA is punitive and spiteful like that. Nor does it keep anyone against their will physically. I also never claimed that AA "damaged" me. Just that I disagree with a lot of the stuff that goes on and people should not feel like failures for not being successful at it. Right now this is a very common atitude and it is one 12 steps promotes. People should be made aware of all the options.
 But for arguments sake what if I did say that my chapter of AA was hurtful enough to be permanently "damaging". What if I was a person who was a bit thin skinned or vulnerable emotionally? As a person in favour of an organization that is supposed to be compassionate and welcoming do you honestly think it makes your organization look good to call me a "hothouse flower"? Or do you think it might make you come across as a bit aggressive and defensive with no logical reason for being so?
I dont really know who suck i is. I assume some other poster. Im puzzled there.

That was a good article. i wish there were more like it. Most people think that ideas like "reaching rock bottom" and doing the 12 steps are the only answer because the other options are not as widely publicized. Which is kind of my point danny. When you are taking a lot of stuff you go to the most publicized option which is 12 steps. When it was not my thing i felt like a real failure and got a little worse for a while. I was lucky to have a relative who is a doctor & she said some of her patients had privately complained of the same thing. This gave me a lot of hope.
I should add that 12 steps is not cult like in the traditional dramatic sense. Some chapters are also possibly different to others and more relaxed. But it is a gradual sort of thing. Like at first they say take what you want and get rid of the rest. But then when you do you can be accused of being in denial. Like with the whole issue of powerlessless. Even if you are religious there is still this idea that god gave you freewill so if you exercised it to snort thousands of dollars by yourself then surely you can exercise it to turn your life around. This sounds arrogant but if you feel like shit for doing some of the bad things that you did on drugs as most of us invariably do, then why is it so bad to take the credit for turning your life around? Why do you have to surrender to anyone's will be it god or he group?
 There was also a subtle level of emotional blackmail. I mean they dont say cut off your friends but anyone not on the "journey" should be held at a distance. Or friends being expected to refrain from drinking out of love. If they don't is it because they don't love you? Even if your issue is drug abuse not alcohol? I saw one woman being advised to divorce her husband of 10 years for not being on the journey. That seemed a bit strong to me. I did not think anyone was in a position to give advice on such a big issue.

I should add that many meetings go for far longer than an hour. Some people are encouraged to do more than give up an hour of their lives, they are urged to give up loved ones and friends not on the same path. This can ultimately mean that if you are not careful you can miss out on all the stuff that makes drug free life great! Thats not to say aa does not work for some but given the choice of spending my time and putting my trust in the hands of strangers, or enjoying the company of loved ones the latter will win for me every time.

I have read the AA criticisms with interest on this forum and a few others. I am a guy who took way too many drugs for most of my 20s. When I decided that it had gotten way more out of hand than I ever intended 12 steps seemed like the most logical choice. But after going a few times I did have a few concerns. As an openly gay man organized religion has never been for me. Who wants to believe in a God that doesn’t even like him? Most of the people there had gotten religion when they gave up the drugs but I knew this was not the thing for me. There were a few others like me but they believed in using the group for the higher power thing. I didn’t get that at all. I mean I had done some pretty stupid shit to get myself in this state and I was hardly alone. So the idea that people who had done some equally stupid things held all of the answers made no sense at all.

Most of my fellow 12 steppers were good decent, and sincere people who really cared about me, this was touching. But they did seem to have the view that any friends who even drank wine with dinner or smoked a single joint had no place in my life. As my closest friends and family, some of the very people who had been gently urging me to get help for years fitted this category it made no sense. In this respect 12 steps were a little like a cult. I also read a bit about these places that exercise peer pressure a lot and almost force kids to lie or exaggerate only to use it against them. I have to say that while 12 steps never exercised that kind of extreme pressure, it sometimes would get a bit competitive. Like whose behavior before reaching rock bottom was the most hardcore. Or who had endured a more insane personal life on the road to drug abuse. I would leave feeling guilty because I did not have a childhood that was filled with abuse or any overwhelming issues that lead me to take drugs. I just took them because it seemed like a fun thing to do at the time and I let it get out of hand. The way some people do with food. But I would say that and sometimes feel a level of judgement.
I also tried a group just for gay people. It had 3 factions. The first was the dirty old men who were mainly there to try and pick up. The second were the lesbians who liked to cry a lot. Then there were the younger gay guys who were busy running away from the dirty old men. I guess that was me. So I decided to give up on 12 steps.
I went to a really good rehab and got some one on one counselling. They had a group therapy option but I didn’t go in for it. I think that the rehab as much as anything gave me a few weeks of alone time to just think things over. This with lots of ongoing counselling has been helpful for me.
In hindsight there were some good things about 12 steps. I felt like the moral inventory idea was helpful for me because I was forced to take stock and think about what the drug abuse was causing me to loose. The people were also very kind mostly if a little strange. Their intentions I don’t believe were bad.
 But I realized they were missing the bigger picture one crisp evening when I bumped into a woman from the first group I went to. It had been the kind of day that was cloudless but cold enough to need a jacket. I had spent the afternoon watching my small nephew kick his first goal in a football game. When it was over he ran at me muddy and elated demanding to know whether I had seen his triumph. I was on my way to meet some loyal old friends for dinner at a favourite restaurant. Life felt great. The woman and I exchanged pleasantries and I asked what she was up to. Sure enough she was planning to spend her Saturday night in a cold church hall on uncomfortable chairs drinking freeze dried coffee. Off to 12 steps. She had gone daily for 3 years. She asked if I was sure I shouldn’t be working on my self and told me I was always welcome back. I thanked her, gave her a hug and declined. Then i walked off into my happy drug free life.